1 E X H I B I T S (Continued)
2 FOR IN
PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.
3 607 Sunshine and Health, The
4 Nudist, December 1937 6962 6964
5 608 Sunshine and Health, The Nudist, October 1937 6962 6964
6 609 Sunshine and Health, The
7 Nudist, February 1937 6962 6964
8 610 Sunshine and Health, The Nudist, January 1937 6962 6964
9 611 Sunshine and Health, The
10 Nudist, December 1937 6962 6964
11 612 Sunshine and Health, The Nudist, September 1938 6962 6964
12 613 Sunshine and Health, The
13 Nudist, July 1939 6962 6964
14 614 Eden Quarterly, Issue 7 6964 6969
15 615 Sunshine and Health, The Nudist, November 1937 6964 6969
16 616 Sunshine and Health, The
17 Nudist, November 1937 6964 6969
18 617 Sunshine and Health, The Nudist, February 1938 6964 6969
19 618 Sunshine and Health, The
20 Nudist, March 1938 6964 6969
21 619 Sunshine and Health, The Nudist, September 1937 6964 6969
22 620 Eden Quarterly, Issue 8 6969 6972
23 621 Sunshine and Health, The
24 Nudist, June 1937 6969 6972
25 822 “The Art of Dave Nestler, Wicked Intentions” 6836 6849
26 823 VHS Tape, Item 811 6839
27 824 VHS Tape, Item 812 6839
28 6833
1 E X H I B I T S
2 FOR IN PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.
3
4 825 VHS Tape, Item 815 6839
5 826 VHS Tape, Item 816 6839
6 827 Audio cassette tape, MJ 6876
7 828 Audio cassette tape, Michael Jackson 6876
8 829 Mini video cassette tape
9 Arvizo Move 6877
10 831 Photo of cabinet with TV, VCR, audio and VHS tapes 6874 6878
11 832 Photo of audio tapes blown up 6874 6878
12 833 Photo of VHS tapes blown up 6874 6878
13 834 Evidence bag containing
14 Exhibits 592 through 595 6957 6959
15 835 Evidence bag containing Exhibits 598 and 600 through
16 613 6962
17 836 Evidence bag containing Exhibits 614 through 619 6964 6969
18 837 Evidence bag containing
19 Exhibits 620 and 621 6969 6972
20 838 Evidence bag containing book “Poo-Chi” 6971 6972
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 6834
1 THE COURT: Any further questions, Mr.
2 Mesereau?
3 MR. MESEREAU: No, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Call your next witness.
5 MR. ZONEN: Thank you, Your Honor. We’ll
6 call Detective Vic Alvarez to the stand, please.
7 THE COURT: Come forward, please.
8 When you get to the witness stand, remain
9 standing. Face the clerk over here, and raise your
10 right hand.
11
12 VICTOR M. ALVAREZ
13 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
14
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
17 spell your name for the record.
18 THE WITNESS: Victor M. Alvarez;
19 A-l-v-a-r-e-z.
20 THE CLERK: Thank you.
21
22 DIRECT EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. ZONEN:
24 Q. Detective Alvarez, you’ve previously
25 testified in these proceedings, have you not?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. And identified yourself as a detective with
28 the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Office? 6835
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You’re going to be testifying to a number of
3 different items this morning, although fairly
4 rapidly. Is that your understanding?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, the last time that you were on the
7 witness stand testifying, or perhaps one of the last
8 few times you were on the witness stand testifying,
9 you were testifying to some items that you had
10 personally seized from Neverland Ranch during the
11 course of that search back in November of ‘02; is
12 that correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. November 18, ‘02, am I right?
15 A. ‘03.
16 Q. I’m sorry --
17 A. It would be ‘03.
18 Q. I’m sorry, ‘03. Okay. November 18 of ‘03.
19 Exactly.
20 At the time of your testimony, you had --
21 one particular item had fallen out of a bag and was
22 not present in court at the time it was presented to
23 you. Is that your recollection?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. I’d like to show you Court Exhibit 822.
26 Court Exhibit 822, and specifically -- occupational
27 hazard here -- specifically Sheriff’s No. 304-B.
28 Would you take a look at this item and tell us if 6836
1 you recognize that item?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is that an item that you seized?
4 A. That’s correct.
5 Q. Is that the item that fell out of the bag?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. And just describe it for us, please.
8 A. It is a -- appears to be a paperback. It is
9 titled, “The Art of Dave Nestler,” N-e-s-t-l-e-r.
10 Q. Was that taken to another detective who then
11 booked it into evidence?
12 A. The title is “Wicked Intentions” and -- yes.
13 Q. I’m sorry, there were two questions. The
14 title of the magazine again was what, please?
15 A. “Wicked Intentions.”
16 Q. And that magazine was then booked in by
17 whom?
18 A. I believe it was Detective Padilla.
19 MR. ZONEN: Okay. I would move to introduce
20 that item into evidence at this time, Your Honor.
21 MR. SANGER: I need to cross-examine on
22 that, if I may, please, before the Court rules.
23 THE COURT: All right.
24 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
25 THE COURT: I’ll withhold ruling on that.
26 MR. ZONEN: Okay. I’ll proceed with other
27 exhibits, if I may.
28 Q. Detective Alvarez, did you have an 6837
1 opportunity to review a number of VHS videos and
2 compare them as against a number of DVDs?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. All right. I would like to show you each of
5 the DVDs and each of the videos and ask you if, in
6 fact, they are duplicate copies of one another, if I
7 may.
8 A. Sure.
9 MR. ZONEN: May I approach the witness?
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Let me begin with four court
12 exhibits, and the four court exhibits are No. 815,
13 a DVD; 816, a DVD; 817, a DVD; and 818, a DVD. Have
14 you seen those four previously?
15 A. I have.
16 Q. And can you tell us if you viewed the
17 contents of those four?
18 A. I have.
19 Q. And what is the subject matter of those four
20 DVDs?
21 A. These are surveillance tapes.
22 Q. Is one of a residence on Soto Street?
23 A. One is a residence on Soto Street.
24 Q. And the other three?
25 A. Of Ramer Street. One of Jay Jackson. One
26 of Davellin.
27 Q. Okay. Did you -- were you in court on
28 Friday where some of those surveillance tapes were 6838
1 played?
2 A. Yes, I was.
3 Q. And are those, in fact, the same as the ones
4 that you’re currently holding?
5 A. They are.
6 Q. All right. Now, did you have an opportunity
7 to compare them as against videotapes?
8 A. I did.
9 Q. Let me now show you exhibits for
10 identification, please, No. 823, No. 824, No. 825
11 and No. 826. And could you take a moment and look
12 at each of those four VHS videos?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do those four correspond to the four DVDs
15 you’ve already identified?
16 A. They do.
17 Q. Are they duplicates of them?
18 A. The DVDs are actual exact copies of the VHS
19 tapes.
20 MR. ZONEN: Thank you. No further
21 questions.
22
23 CROSS-EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. SANGER:
25 Q. Exhibit 822, Detective --
26 A. Yes. The magazine.
27 Q. The magazine. It’s just a separate
28 magazine? 6839
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. That’s marked as 822, correct?
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. And you’ve indicated that it was actually
5 304-B as designated by the sheriff’s department.
6 Was that your testimony?
7 A. Yes. That’s -- it came from Item 304, the
8 original item, and this is -- this was found with
9 Item No. 304.
10 Q. Okay. So really it was not booked into
11 sheriff’s department evidence as 304-B, was it?
12 A. I believe it was.
13 Q. Okay. On your booking form, your sheriff’s
14 department booking form, the one that was filled out
15 by Detective Padilla --
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. -- that would be the form that he used to
18 designate by number the various items that were
19 seized; is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And he indicated that the contents of that
22 one bag were 304?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. All right. He did not designate it 304-A
25 or B, correct?
26 A. Not at that time.
27 Q. Okay. Now, I think you’ve told us -- and I
28 don’t want to be redundant, but I think I asked you 6840
1 about your training and experience when you were on
2 the stand previously --
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. -- is that correct?
5 And I don’t know if I went into detail, but
6 let me ask quickly, if I can, you were trained at a
7 police academy; is that right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Which police academy?
10 A. Allan Hancock.
11 Q. Allan Hancock, all right. That’s a POST
12 Academy?
13 A. That’s right.
14 Q. And you have also had inservice training; is
15 that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you were also a bailiff in Department 9,
18 or whatever number it was over the years, Judge
19 Lodge’s department down in Santa Barbara; is that
20 correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. So you had an occasion to see how evidence
23 was handled in court, correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. And you had an occasion to see countless
26 witnesses, police officers, detectives,
27 cross-examined with regard to the chain of custody;
28 is that right? 6841
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And in your training and experience, both
3 your POST Academy training and your inservice
4 training and your experience as a police officer or
5 a sheriff, you’re aware that chain of custody is
6 important; is that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And when an item is seized originally by
9 your department, specifically the sheriff’s
10 department, it is given a sheriff’s booking number,
11 correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And it’s put usually into an evidence bag,
14 assuming it’s the kind of object that can be put
15 into a bag; is that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. That bag is sealed; is that right?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And the idea is to come into court and open
20 the bag, and say, “Sure enough, here’s the same
21 contents that were put into that bag originally,”
22 right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. You would agree that it is not a proper
25 police practice to lose an item from a bag; is that
26 right?
27 A. This wasn’t lost.
28 Q. Okay. It wasn’t here when the item was in 6842
1 front of the jury when you testified originally, was
2 it?
3 A. No, it wasn’t.
4 Q. It fell out of the bag?
5 A. It was in the box.
6 Q. Okay. Fell out the bag, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 MR. ZONEN: Objection; argumentative.
9 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.
10 Q. BY MR. SANGER: And you would agree it’s not
11 a proper police practice to have things fall out of
12 the bag before you’re standing in front of the jury
13 or sitting in front of the jury and introducing the
14 contents of the bag, correct?
15 A. Whether it’s proper or not, I -- I don’t
16 know, but it happened.
17 Q. When do you believe that somebody gave this
18 item the designation of 304-B?
19 A. Originally what happened was at the initial
20 search of Neverland Ranch, all these items were
21 put -- for example, 304, there were more than one
22 item. Later on, as these items were opened, they
23 were given As, Bs and Cs, depending on what was
24 searched and what was found.
25 Q. Okay. Detective Padilla gave it the number
26 304, correct?
27 A. As a group, yes.
28 Q. Who gave it -- to your knowledge, do you 6843
1 know who actually gave it a designation 304-B?
2 A. I’d say it was Detective -- or Sergeant
3 Bonner.
4 Q. All right. So you were not -- you did not
5 give it the number 304-B; is that correct?
6 A. I did not. I gave it the original number,
7 304.
8 Q. Did you ever see that item between the time
9 you handed it to Detective Padilla and the time that
10 you found it was in the box?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. When did you see it?
13 A. When Sergeant Bonner was itemizing the
14 items.
15 Q. So you saw him --
16 A. This is not the second time I have seen
17 this.
18 Q. You saw it when Sergeant Bonner actually
19 gave it a designation 304-B?
20 A. That’s correct.
21 Q. And then your understanding was it was
22 supposed to be put back in the bag, 304, right, to
23 preserve the chain of custody?
24 A. Either in 304 or designated as 304-B in its
25 own container.
26 Q. In any event, when you took the stand, 304,
27 the bag that you thought contained 304-A and B, only
28 contained A and not B; is that correct? 6844
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Now, this particular item, which you told us
3 is “The Art of Dave Nestler,” is that a book of art
4 by that particular individual?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. All right. And that is an item that, to
7 your knowledge, is legal for an adult to purchase
8 commercially, correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. I’m not talking about copyrights. What I’m
11 talking about --
12 A. Yes, yes.
13 Q. -- it’s something that somebody could buy.
14 If they can find it in a store, right, an adult can
15 buy it? There’s nothing illegal about that, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And there’s nothing illegal about an adult
18 possessing that?
19 A. I don’t think so.
20 Q. All right. Thank you.
21 Now, let me just ask you, the second part of
22 your testimony pertained to these videos, and you
23 have related the videos to the DVDs. The actual --
24 A. Or the DVDs to the video. Either way, yes.
25 Q. Okay. Am I missing something there?
26 A. The DVDs are made from the original videos.
27 Q. You said you related them. That was my
28 word. 6845
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. On the stand you said these DVDs were
3 taken from these videos, right? That’s, in essence,
4 what you’re saying?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. There we go. And in that regard, the
7 videos -- your understanding is that these video
8 were located in Bradley Miller’s office; is that
9 correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. And Bradley Miller is a private investigator
12 that worked for Mark Geragos, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 MR. ZONEN: Objection; speculative.
15 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer is,
16 “Correct.”
17 MR. ZONEN: Lack of foundation.
18 THE COURT: Proceed.
19 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
20 Q. The -- you’ve looked at the videos, correct?
21 A. I have.
22 Q. And they appear to be surveillance films of
23 some sort, correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. They appear to be taken from a public place,
26 a place where a person would lawfully be, a street
27 or sidewalk; is that correct?
28 A. Yes. 6846
1 Q. And that is consistent with what private
2 investigators do from time to time, correct?
3 A. I’m not a private investigator.
4 Q. No, sir. But you’ve seen private
5 investigators’ surveillance videos before, have you
6 not?
7 A. I have.
8 Q. And sometimes private investigators, for
9 whatever reason, do surveillance videos, correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. SANGER: All right. Thank you. I have
12 no further questions.
13
14 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. ZONEN:
16 Q. The magazine that’s in front of you, I think
17 it’s right below your hands at the moment.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What is the Court number again on that? The
20 one that we’ve identified as 304-B, sheriff’s
21 number?
22 A. 822. Exhibit 822.
23 Q. Where in Neverland did you find that
24 particular exhibit?
25 A. This was in --
26 MR. SANGER: I’m going to object. That’s
27 beyond the scope of direct, actually.
28 MR. ZONEN: Then I would move to reopen on 6847
1 that question if that’s the case.
2 THE COURT: It is the case. I’ll allow you
3 to reopen.
4 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
5 Q. Where exactly was it that you found that?
6 A. This was along with Item 304.
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. And it was in the master bedroom downstairs
9 bathroom, next to the sink area by the tub. There’s
10 a sink. There’s a tub. It was in the middle there.
11 Q. Was it something that was contained in a
12 drawer or in a suitcase or in any kind of a closed
13 container?
14 A. I believe it was out in the open.
15 Q. It was in the open at the time?
16 Now, you said the magazine wasn’t lost, it
17 was in the box. Tell us what you mean by that.
18 A. As we brought the exhibits into the
19 courtroom, it was actually placed in one of the
20 boxes that we carried it in. So it just --
21 Q. And what happened with the magazine?
22 A. It was in the box and wasn’t presented in
23 court.
24 Q. Okay. Fell out of the -- what was it
25 originally contained in within the box?
26 A. If it’s labeled 304-B, then it was in
27 plastic and must have just fell out of the plastic.
28 Q. And did you then retrieve it from the box? 6848
1 A. I did.
2 MR. ZONEN: Thank you. No further
3 questions.
4 MR. SANGER: No further questions, Your
5 Honor.
6 THE COURT: You may step down.
7 MR. ZONEN: As to Exhibit No. 822, we would
8 move that into evidence at this time.
9 MR. SANGER: I’ll submit it.
10 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
11 MR. ZONEN: And we’ll call Maria Ventura to
12 the stand.
13 THE COURT: She’s on her way.
14 Counsel, the in-camera hearing that was
15 requested, I think we’ll conduct that at about ten
16 minutes before the next break. I think ten minutes
17 is a sufficient amount of time for that in-camera
18 hearing. So that will extend the jurors’ lunch by
19 ten minutes and shorten yours by every minute you
20 take over ten.
21 (Laughter.)
22 MR. SNEDDON: Why are you looking at me,
23 Judge? I have a guilty conscience maybe.
24 THE COURT: You must have a guilty
25 conscience.
26 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, could you give us a
27 little more --
28 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau knows. 6849
1 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, oh, oh. I know what it
2 is.
3 THE COURT: Come forward, please. When you
4 get to the witness stand, please remain standing.
5 Face the clerk here and raise your right
6 hand.
7
8 MARIA A. VENTURA
9 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
10
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
12 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
13 spell your name for the record.
14 THE COURT: For the attorneys’ information,
15 we have two interpreters. I’ve given them
16 permission to switch off as they need a break. They
17 know when they need to, and so they may do that
18 while you’re questioning the witness.
19 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
20 May I proceed?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 THE WITNESS: Maria A. Ventura.
23 THE INTERPRETER: May the interpreter spell?
24 Ventura is spelled V-e-n-t-u-r-a.
25 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
26 //
27 //
28 // 6850
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. ZONEN:
3 Q. Miss Ventura, are you the mother of Janet
4 Arvizo?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Do you have other children as well?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Does Janet Arvizo have children?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And how many children does she have?
11 A. Three.
12 Q. All right. These are the three children
13 from her marriage with David Arvizo?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Does she have a child also with her marriage
16 to Jay Jackson?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And that child is how old?
19 A. The little one?
20 Q. Yes, the little one.
21 A. Eight months.
22 Q. Okay. Now, the three older children, the
23 children who are the children of Janet and David
24 Arvizo --
25 A. Yes, sir.
26 Q. -- are their names Davellin, Star and Gavin?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And those three are your grandchildren? 6851
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you talk with those three children on a
3 regular basis?
4 A. Well, they’re my kids.
5 Q. Does that mean yes, you do?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All right. And do the children speak enough
8 Spanish that they’re able to communicate effectively
9 with you?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. I’d like to direct your attention back to
12 the early --
13 A. You can speak louder, because I can’t hear.
14 I can’t hear.
15 Q. I would like to direct your attention back
16 to the early part of 2003, January and February of
17 2003.
18 A. That’s fine.
19 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It’s not you. It’s the
20 interpreter.
21 MR. ZONEN: I was wondering why --
22 THE WITNESS: What did you say?
23 MR. ZONEN: That’s what happens when trials
24 go on long enough.
25 Q. Miss Ventura, can you hear me now?
26 A. Yes, I do. It was for her.
27 Q. I understand.
28 (Laughter.) 6852
1 Q. I would like to direct your attention back
2 to the early part of 2003.
3 A. That’s fine.
4 Q. Were you aware as to where your daughter and
5 her three children were visiting during that period
6 of time?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And where was that?
9 A. Neverland. I can’t say it very well, but
10 there, Neverland.
11 Q. Is Neverland a place where you had once
12 visited?
13 A. Never.
14 Q. Did you know what Neverland was prior to
15 that time of January and February and March of 2003?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you know who Michael Jackson was prior
18 to February of 2003?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you know who Michael Jackson is today?
21 A. We all know, because you see it on T.V.
22 Q. All right. Now, did you ever see a
23 documentary on television that was titled “Living
24 with Michael Jackson”?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Did you ever see anything on T.V. that
27 featured your grandchildren, where your
28 grandchildren were shown on television? 6853
1 A. No. I only see parts of it in the Mexican
2 channel, because those are the channels I watch.
3 Q. Did you ever see any shots at all of your
4 grandchildren on television?
5 A. Lately, just little clips, short little
6 clips on 52 and 34.
7 Q. Did you become aware of the fact that your
8 grandchildren had been featured on television in a
9 documentary?
10 A. No.
11 Q. At some point in time, did you have a number
12 of reporters or press who came to your home?
13 A. Oh, yes. My door, my mailbox. They opened
14 my mailbox.
15 THE INTERPRETER: Okay, okay.
16 (Laughter.)
17 THE WITNESS: They even opened my mailbox.
18 They yelled at me. I even had to call the police
19 several times. They parked everywhere.
20 The worst ones were the 52, Channel 52. The
21 light was so bright they seemed like a soccer field.
22 The police came and told them to take that away.
23 And that reporter, she said no, because she had to
24 do a report. Another police officer came and he did
25 make them to turn it off, and then they -- six
26 o’clock p.m., they turned it on again.
27 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you know what it was that
28 caused all of these reporters to come to your home? 6854
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What was it?
3 A. The participation of that man, the
4 involvement of that man.
5 Q. All right. Did you --
6 A. They wanted to find out what I knew from new
7 talk, but I didn’t know anything. I found out later
8 when I watched all those reports, all those
9 newscasts, everything.
10 Q. At some point in time, did your children
11 come to your home from Neverland?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you do something to facilitate their
14 coming to your home, to cause them to come to your
15 home?
16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
17 THE COURT: Overruled.
18 THE WITNESS: I had to lie and say that I
19 was ill so that they could come.
20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Who did you --
21 A. Because those children love me very much,
22 because I raised them.
23 Q. Okay. The children specifically, who was it
24 who you told that you were sick?
25 A. The truth is I don’t remember. The one
26 thing I know is that my children called me.
27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.
28 THE COURT: Sustained. 6855
1 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Was it --
2 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
3 MR. ZONEN: I’m sorry?
4 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike.
5 THE COURT: It wasn’t stated, so it doesn’t
6 need to be stricken.
7 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Was it one of your
8 grandchildren who called you?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Do you remember which of the three?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Do you remember if it was one of the boys as
13 opposed to Davellin?
14 A. Yes. Yes. I don’t remember if it was Gavin
15 or Star.
16 Q. Did you tell that grandchild that you were
17 sick?
18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
19 THE COURT: Overruled.
20 THE INTERPRETER: I’m sorry, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Overruled.
22 You may answer.
23 THE WITNESS: Yes.
24 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Why did you do that?
25 A. So that they could come.
26 Q. Okay. Were you, in fact, sick at the time?
27 A. No. Well, no. Well, yes, actually, because
28 I do have arthritis and thyroid problems and things. 6856
1 Q. All right.
2 A. High cholesterol. I mean, I can make you a
3 longer list.
4 (Laughter.)
5 Q. It’s not necessary.
6 Did they, in fact, come, the three children?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you know if it was the same day or at a
9 subsequent time, at a later time?
10 A. They called me in the afternoon. Later in
11 the afternoon they called me and they said, “Mom” --
12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
13 THE COURT: Overruled.
14 You may complete your answer.
15 THE WITNESS: They call me “mom,” because
16 they do call me “mom,” so they asked me if I was
17 sick. And I said yes, because I was -- I was
18 desperate and I was anguished because I hadn’t seen
19 them, and I would get a heart attack from not seeing
20 them.
21 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: And did they arrive that day
22 or soon thereafter?
23 A. The following day, I believe, is when they
24 came.
25 Q. All right. Do you know who it was who
26 delivered them to the house?
27 A. No. Because my house is like this, the
28 entrance is right here, so they had to walk. 6857
1 Q. All right. Did they come into the home, the
2 three children?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. This is your El Monte home, the home in El
5 Monte?
6 A. Yes. My house.
7 Q. The person who -- how long have you lived in
8 that house?
9 A. 36 years.
10 Q. And your husband --
11 A. Approximately. More or less.
12 Q. Your husband’s name is what, please?
13 A. David.
14 Q. And David has been married to you for how
15 many years?
16 A. He’s been my only boyfriend and my only
17 husband and he’s still with me.
18 Q. How old were you when you met him?
19 A. 20. 20.
20 Q. And David does what kind of work?
21 A. He’s a trucker.
22 Q. And he has worked in that capacity for how
23 long?
24 A. His whole life, since I met him.
25 Q. Is he still working?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. And he’s still a trucker?
28 A. Yes. 6858
1 Q. For which company does he work?
2 A. I’m not -- I’m going to say it, but I don’t
3 know if it’s right. Ralph’s?
4 Q. A grocery store chain?
5 A. Yes, the markets.
6 Q. All right. Going back to when the three
7 children arrived at your house, did you see the
8 person who drove them to the house?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did that person walk them to the door?
11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 You may answer.
14 THE WITNESS: Why are you saying that?
15 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did that person --
16 A. No, I’m saying him. Why does he say to
17 wait? Is it --
18 Q. Because he can.
19 (Laughter.)
20 THE WITNESS: I’m sorry.
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 MR. ZONEN: Let me change the question.
23 Q. Did you see at any time the person or
24 persons who delivered your three children to your
25 home?
26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; asked and
27 answered.
28 THE COURT: Sustained. 6859
1 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Do you know who the person
2 was who delivered the children to the house?
3 A. Miguel’s people.
4 Q. Is “Miguel” Michael Jackson?
5 A. Yes. It’s “Miguel” in Spanish.
6 Q. Thank you.
7 Miss Ventura, when your children came into
8 the house, was your daughter Janet and her then
9 boyfriend Jay at your home at the time that the
10 three grandchildren arrived?
11 A. No. I received them by myself.
12 Q. At some time later that day or at another
13 day, did Janet and Jay arrive at your home?
14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 You may answer.
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, they came later.
18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Was it the same day or a
19 different day?
20 A. Yes. The same day.
21 Q. The same day. All right. Would you
22 describe for us how the children were behaving at
23 the time that they arrived from Neverland?
24 A. Those children that came were not my
25 grandkids.
26 Q. Explain that to us, please.
27 A. The -- their entire life, my grandkids and I
28 were very close. Their happiness, their sadness, 6860
1 their games, all of that. I was always very
2 important for all three of them.
3 When they came back, they didn’t talk to me
4 the same way. They were different kids. And -- and
5 even up till now Gavin is not the same child.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;
7 move to strike.
8 THE COURT: Overruled.
9 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: After the three children
10 returned from Neverland to your home, did you
11 receive any phone calls at your home?
12 A. Many. Many, many. Day and night. I had a
13 red telephone, and it had a square like that. And
14 in that little square sometimes it said “Neverland,”
15 and some other time “Frank,” or I don’t know. And
16 the voice would say, “Gavin, Star, Davellin,
17 somebody answer.”
18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.
19 THE COURT: Excuse me. Sustained.
20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Could you actually hear
21 messages being left on your phone?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Were there -- was -- were there voices on
24 the messages asking for your grandchildren?
25 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
26 THE COURT: Overruled.
27 Just a moment.
28 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6861
1 THE COURT: Have you offered her some water?
2 I’m --
3 Yourself too, if you --
4 THE INTERPRETER: I have my bottle. Thank
5 you.
6 THE COURT: Go ahead.
7 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Could you tell if it was one
8 voice or more than one voice leaving messages on the
9 phone?
10 A. Sometimes it said on there “Neverland.”
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. And some other times it was that Frank.
13 What really hurts me is that my
14 granddaughter erased it. Otherwise -- she always
15 liked to -- well, one of the phones broke down, and
16 she tried to make, out of two phones, make one.
17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.
18 THE COURT: Sustained.
19 MR. ZONEN: All right. The latter part of
20 the answer, Your Honor, you’re referring to?
21 THE COURT: We’ll leave the first two
22 sentences in.
23 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You told us what you were
24 able to see on the screen on the phone, and you told
25 us you were also able to hear a voice.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Is that your --
28 A. Yes. The phone had a little square, and 6862
1 then you could hear the person talk.
2 Q. All right.
3 A. And I never allowed the kids to pick up the
4 phone because I was always watching out for that.
5 You know, I would also get calls very late at night,
6 maybe thinking that I was asleep.
7 But ever since that time when they came,
8 when they were no longer the same kids, I couldn’t
9 sleep anymore because I was always watching out for
10 that phone.
11 Q. Let me ask you some questions about the
12 messages. Were the messages always left in English?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Were you able to understand the messages?
15 A. No. What I understood is as soon as I saw
16 “Neverland” --
17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.
18 THE COURT: Sustained.
19 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What were you able to
20 understand of the messages?
21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
22 MR. ZONEN: It’s not for the truth of the
23 matter.
24 THE COURT: I’ll allow the question.
25 THE WITNESS: What I understood is that it
26 said “Neverland” and that they were calling my
27 grandkids. That’s what I understood.
28 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You were able to hear the 6863
1 names of the kids being called?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. All right. Could you tell if it was the
4 same voice each time or if it was a different voice?
5 A. The same one.
6 Q. Give us a sense of how many times this
7 person called.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
9 THE COURT: Overruled.
10 You may answer.
11 THE WITNESS: The number of times I can’t
12 tell you, but I know that it was very often.
13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Over what period of time did
14 the calls continue? In other words, was it over
15 days, over weeks, or months? How would describe the
16 length of time that the calls continued?
17 A. A long time. I couldn’t tell you days or
18 whatever, because I just -- I didn’t keep track of
19 days, hours. And I watched my grandkids until my
20 daughter took them, took the boys. And Davellin
21 stayed with me.
22 Q. Did you ever become aware of the fact that
23 there were people watching you?
24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
25 THE COURT: Overruled.
26 THE WITNESS: All around my house there was
27 a lot of cars. There was a lot of people.
28 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did anybody ever come to the 6864
1 door and attempt to contact you or the children?
2 A. Many people came to the door of my house.
3 Cameras. I was -- I was hiding. I was almost like
4 a prisoner. I had to hide. I couldn’t even stick
5 my face out like that, because everybody would just
6 come on, come on over.
7 Q. Within a week or two after your
8 grandchildren returned to your home, did anybody
9 come to the door, knock on the door, and inquire
10 about the children?
11 A. Yes. All the time. All the time.
12 Q. Anybody throw stones at your house?
13 A. Yes. Once. I’m speaking slow so that you
14 can be talking.
15 I was sitting down watching the soap operas,
16 because I’m always watching my soap operas. That
17 T.V. I have in the dining room. Davellin sleeps --
18 or used to sleep in the bedroom that goes out --
19 that’s out to the street. But sitting like this,
20 here’s the dining room and there was her bedroom.
21 But I was sitting down when I heard,
22 “bbrrr,” something like that.
23 MR. ZONEN: (To the interpreter) That was
24 well done.
25 (Laughter.)
26 THE WITNESS: But I thought to myself, well,
27 it must be the kids just out in the street. But,
28 no, then again, and again. And then by the third 6865
1 time is when I stood up --
2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive and
3 narrative.
4 THE COURT: Narrative; sustained.
5 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What did you then do?
6 A. I stood up and I walked around. And
7 Davellin just rushed out of the bedroom, and she
8 asked me, “Mama” -- “Mom, did you hear that?”
9 So I told her, “Yes, somebody’s throwing
10 rocks at the house.”
11 We both went up to the door. And when we
12 went out like that, we saw a man standing next to
13 the car. It was a small car. I don’t know if it
14 was black or blue, because it was getting late.
15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Narrative;
16 nonresponsive.
17 THE COURT: Sustained.
18 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: After you saw the vehicle,
19 did you see the person near the vehicle?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Could you --
22 A. Right at the time that my granddaughter and
23 I went out, we turned like that, because right at
24 the time, a rock was coming on its way, and it hit
25 right on the window of Davellin’s bedroom.
26 Q. While you were standing watching?
27 A. Yes. Right at the time that we went out,
28 like that. 6866
1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Narrative;
2 nonresponsive.
3 THE COURT: Sustained.
4 MR. ZONEN: Perhaps we could get the
5 translation of the last -- I don’t know if the
6 interpreter translated the last statement.
7 THE COURT: Well, I sustained the objection,
8 narrative, so --
9 MR. ZONEN: Let me back you up a couple
10 steps.
11 Q. You actually saw somebody throw a stone?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Was it the person standing next to the car?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Can you describe that person for us, as best
16 you can?
17 A. I know that it was a man that was standing
18 there, and he had a cap. Right at the time that we
19 saw the man, Davellin and I, I told Davellin, “Call
20 the police.”
21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, Your Honor.
22 Narrative.
23 THE COURT: Sustained as to the last
24 sentence.
25 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Were you standing with
26 Davellin at the time you saw the stone being thrown?
27 A. When he threw -- when he threw the last rock
28 that I saw that hit Davellin’s bedroom window, we 6867
1 were both standing there.
2 Q. Did you then contact law enforcement?
3 A. That’s when I told Davellin to run and call
4 the police.
5 Q. Did you --
6 A. And so that man very quickly got in the car
7 and took off.
8 Q. And did you, in fact, call the police?
9 A. No.
10 MR. ZONEN: May I have just one moment,
11 please, Your Honor?
12 THE WITNESS: I don’t really remember, but,
13 yes.
14 MR. ZONEN: Thank you, Your Honor. I have
15 no further questions.
16 MR. MESEREAU: No questions, Your Honor.
17 THE WITNESS: But the other day --
18 THE COURT: Thank you. There are no other
19 questions. You may step down.
20 MR. ZONEN: I’m sorry, Your Honor, I need to
21 call the next witness. I neglected to do that.
22 Your Honor, we will not be needing the
23 interpreter any further.
24 Who’s doing this, you or Bob?
25 MR. MESEREAU: Bob.
26 THE COURT: Counsel, maybe you’d like to take
27 this moment to explain the scheduling issue that you
28 were going to raise while we’re waiting for the 6868
1 witness.
2 MR. SNEDDON: Approach the bench?
3 THE COURT: No, it’s all right. You can
4 just tell us. Go ahead and tell us. I mean, it’s
5 not a private matter.
6 MR. SNEDDON: I think it is, because it
7 involves some evidentiary issues.
8 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Your microphone, sir.
9 THE COURT: All right. Approach the bench.
10 (Discussion held off the record at sidebar.)
11 THE COURT: Please remain standing. Face the
12 clerk and raise your right hand.
13
14 WILLIAM F. CALDWELL
15 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
16
17 THE WITNESS: I do.
18 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
19 spell your name for the record.
20 THE WITNESS: William F. Caldwell;
21 C-a-l-d-w-e-l-l.
22 THE CLERK: Thank you.
23
24 DIRECT EXAMINATION
25 BY MR. ZONEN:
26 Q. Sergeant Caldwell, your current occupation,
27 please?
28 A. I’m a sergeant for the Santa Barbara 6869
1 Sheriff’s Department.
2 Q. You’ve been in the Sheriff’s Department in
3 Santa Barbara County for how long?
4 A. 27 years.
5 Q. What is your current position?
6 A. I’m a detective sergeant in the Coastal
7 Station.
8 Q. I’m sorry, which station?
9 A. Detective sergeant in the Coastal Station,
10 Carpinteria area.
11 Q. You’ve held that particular position for how
12 long?
13 A. Four years.
14 Q. Were you involved, among other detectives,
15 with searches that were executed on the 18th of
16 November, 2003?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. The area where you searched was what,
19 please?
20 A. It was the office of Bradley Miller, a
21 private investigator in Beverly Hills, California.
22 Q. And do you remember the address?
23 A. I don’t. 211 South Beverly Drive, No. 108,
24 I believe.
25 Q. Very good. In Beverly Hills?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. All right. Can you tell us at approximately
28 what time you conducted that search? 6870
1 A. At approximately 9:30 in the morning.
2 Q. And how many of you went to conduct that
3 search?
4 A. Three of us.
5 Q. And who were they?
6 A. Investigator Tonello from the District
7 Attorney’s Office and Detective Forney from the
8 sheriff’s department.
9 Q. The three of you. And did you have any
10 uniformed officers with you at that time?
11 A. Yes. Officer Roy Tinkler from the Beverly
12 Hills Police Department.
13 Q. When you arrived at that location, was
14 anybody at the office?
15 A. No, sir.
16 Q. Was the office closed and locked?
17 A. Yes, it was.
18 Q. Were you able to gain entry into the office?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And how were you able to do that?
21 A. We contacted the property manager who ran
22 the building, and she provided a key for entrance
23 into the outer door of the office.
24 Q. And did that get you through the outer door
25 into the office?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Did you at some time, either prior to or
28 after gaining entry into the outer door, make an 6871
1 effort to contact Brad Miller?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And how did you do that?
4 A. I previously obtained Mr. Miller’s cell
5 phone number and I tried to call it and I left a
6 message on his voice mail on the cell phone.
7 Q. Were you able to get ahold of him?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you attempt to gain entry into the inner
10 doors in the office?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How many inner doors were there?
13 A. A total of three.
14 Q. And where did they lead to?
15 A. One of the offices was open. The door led
16 to a secretarial area, and then the other two doors
17 were locked.
18 Q. All right. Were you able to gain entry into
19 the two rooms that were locked?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. How did you do that?
22 A. Through use of a sledgehammer.
23 Q. What does that mean?
24 A. We forcibly opened the door by pounding on
25 the door with a sledgehammer.
26 Q. How were you able do that? What -- kind of
27 give us a sense of what’s involved. We’ve all seen
28 it on T.V., but I don’t know that we’ve ever -- 6872
1 MR. SANGER: I’m going to object.
2 Relevance, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Sustained.
4 MR. ZONEN: Sustained as to the entirety of
5 that question or just the comments at the end?
6 THE COURT: The entirety.
7 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you gain entry into that
8 office?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And what were the two rooms that you gained
11 entry into?
12 A. One of the offices was the office of Bradley
13 Miller, the private investigator, and the second
14 room was a conference room.
15 Q. All right. Did you seize a number of items
16 from that location?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. All right. Did you have something to do
19 with the documentation of the items that were
20 seized?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Tell me what your role was in that.
23 A. My role was to complete the property form at
24 the scene. Detective Forney would bring me the
25 items, and I would number them and list the items on
26 a property form, and put them in bags, and number
27 the bags.
28 MR. ZONEN: Excuse me. I’m sorry. 6873
1 Q. I would like to show you three exhibits
2 currently marked for identification No. 831, 832,
3 and 833.
4 If I may approach the witness, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: You may.
6 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: If you would look at those
7 three photographs and please tell us what they are.
8 A. Exhibit 831 is a photograph of a cabinet
9 with a television and VCR and a number of video and
10 audiotapes.
11 Exhibit 832 is a blow-up of some audio
12 tapes.
13 And Exhibit 833 is a blow-up of some VHS
14 video cassette tapes.
15 Q. Now, the audiotapes and the videotapes, the
16 VHS tapes that you can see in 832 and 833, are they
17 also visible in 831?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. And can you describe in that photograph
20 where they are?
21 A. They’re located on a shelf above the VCR,
22 which is standing on top of the television.
23 Q. Were items seized from that general
24 location --
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. -- as depicted in 831?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And among the items that were seized, can 6874
1 you just describe what they were, please?
2 A. Videotapes and audiotapes.
3 Q. I’d like to now show you a series of tapes,
4 if I can.
5 If I could approach the witness with all of
6 them.
7 THE COURT: All right.
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: I would like to show you, if
9 I can, Exhibit No. 823, and that is Court Exhibit
10 823.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Can you tell us what this item is?
13 A. It’s a videotape. It’s entitled, “Arvizo
14 2-19 and 2-21.” And it says, “Re MJ.” And it’s my
15 Evidence Item No. 811. It was seized from this
16 cabinet that I’ve talked about earlier.
17 Q. And who was it who actually seized it from
18 the cabinet?
19 A. Detective Rod Forney.
20 Q. Did you see it in the cabinet?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Court Exhibit No. 824, please. Take a look
23 at that, Court Exhibit No. 824, and tell us what
24 that is.
25 A. It’s a VHS cassette tape. It’s entitled,
26 “To Brad Re Arvizo.” It’s my evidence Item No. 812.
27 And it was seized from the top shelf, as indicated
28 in the photo. 6875
1 Q. No. 825, please, Court Exhibit No. 825, tell
2 us what that is.
3 A. This is a VHS video cassette tape. It’s
4 entitled, “Arvizo Move, 3-5-3. MJJ.” And it’s my
5 Evidence Item No. 815. And this, as well, was
6 seized from that same location, the cabinet above
7 the television.
8 Q. Showing you Item 826, please.
9 A. This is a VHS video cassette tape. It’s
10 entitled, “To Brad, Jeanette, March, Johnny.”
11 There’s a phone number, “1-866-256-6275.” And it’s
12 marked, the other side, “MJJ, Arvizo, 2003.” It’s
13 my Evidence Item No. 816. And it was seized from
14 the location as indicated, the cabinet above the
15 television.
16 Q. Item 827, Court Exhibit Item 827, tell us
17 what that is.
18 A. This is an audio cassette tape. It’s marked
19 “MJ” or labeled “MJ.” It’s my Evidence Item No.
20 817. And it was seized on that same shelf above the
21 television.
22 Q. Court Exhibit No. 828, please tell us what
23 that is.
24 A. This is an audio cassette tape. It’s
25 entitled, “Michael Jackson.” It’s my Evidence Item
26 No. 818. It’s also labeled on the side, “Michael
27 Jackson,” and it says, “Arvizo, ST, MT, 2-16-03.”
28 And it was seized from that same location on the 6876
1 shelf above the television.
2 Q. Item 829, please tell us what that is.
3 A. This is a mini video cassette tape. It’s
4 marked “Arvizo Move.” It’s my Evidence Item 819.
5 And it was seized, as well, from the shelf in the
6 television cabinet, the same location.
7 Q. Now, as the person who we’ve described
8 previously was the scribe, what was your obligation
9 with regards to those items?
10 A. My obligation was to collect them from
11 Detective Forney, to note the location that he
12 seized the items from, to number the items, and to
13 log the items in on an evidence sheet and to place
14 them in those respective bags and seal them.
15 Q. And did you do that as to each one of those
16 items?
17 A. I did.
18 Q. The three photographs that I’ve handed you,
19 tell us again the court exhibit number of those.
20 A. 831 is a photograph depicting the cabinet
21 and the television, the VCR and the tapes on the top
22 shelf.
23 Exhibit No. 832 is a blow-up or an
24 enhancement of the audio cassette tapes.
25 And Court Exhibit 833 is a blow-up or
26 enhancement of the video, VHS tapes.
27 Q. The content of those three photographs, are
28 they accurately depicted in those photographs? 6877
1 A. Yes.
2 MR. ZONEN: I would move to introduce into
3 evidence 831, 832 and 833.
4 MR. SANGER: No objection.
5 THE COURT: They’re admitted.
6 MR. ZONEN: I have no further questions.
7
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. SANGER:
10 Q. Sergeant Caldwell.
11 A. Mr. Sanger.
12 Q. How are you?
13 A. Very well, sir. Thank you.
14 Q. Good. You’ve been a detective for how many
15 years total?
16 A. 16 or 17 years.
17 Q. So 27 years in the sheriff’s department,
18 correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. 16 or 17 of those as a detective, correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Four years as the detective sergeant in
23 charge of the Carpinteria substation or what’s now
24 called the Coastal Station, correct?
25 A. Yes, sir.
26 Q. And Vic -- Victor Alvarez is a detective who
27 works under your supervision; is that correct?
28 A. Yes, sir. 6878
1 Q. And your assignment in this case came from
2 whom?
3 A. Well, initially from Lieutenant Kitzmann and
4 Lieutenant Klapakis.
5 Q. All right. So the two lieutenants, Kitzmann
6 and Klapakis, assigned you, in essence, to be a
7 scribe on the search of Brad Miller’s office; is
8 that correct?
9 A. Well, they didn’t make that individual
10 assignment. I made that assignment to myself.
11 Q. All right. Let’s put it this way: They
12 assigned you to go do the Brad Miller search in this
13 case; is that correct?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did they assign you, with your background
16 and experience, to do anything else in this case
17 other than the Brad Miller search?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What else?
20 A. A search of a storage locker in West Los
21 Angeles.
22 Q. All right. That was related to the Brad
23 Miller search; is that correct?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. All right. So other than the Brad Miller
26 search and that spin-off, you were not assigned to
27 do anything else in this investigation relating to
28 Mr. Jackson; is that correct? 6879
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Now, with regard to the location that you
3 searched, you understood that to be the office of a
4 private investigator; is that correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you knew, before you went in, that
7 Bradley Miller was the owner of the premises or was
8 the person whose offices you were searching,
9 correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And you knew Bradley Miller was, in fact, a
12 licensed private investigator, correct?
13 A. I was told that, yes.
14 Q. And had somebody else done some background
15 work on that and presented you with it?
16 A. I believe that information was contained in
17 the search warrant affidavit, yes.
18 Q. All right. And at the time you searched,
19 did you know who Bradley Miller was working for?
20 Of your knowledge, did you know who he was working
21 for?
22 A. I -- at one point I was told that he worked
23 for Mr. Jackson.
24 Q. Okay. And later you found out he worked for
25 Mr. Geragos, correct?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. All right. Now, Mr. Geragos, at the time
28 and currently, was a prominent lawyer in Beverly 6880
1 Hills; is that correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. All right. And Bradley Miller had an office
4 in Beverly Hills, correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. During the course of the search, you
7 determined that there was a connection between Mr.
8 Geragos and Bradley Miller, correct?
9 A. When you say “connection” I’m not clear on
10 the question, sir.
11 Q. Well, let’s put it this way: In all your
12 experience in law enforcement, you’re aware that
13 private investigators often work for lawyers,
14 correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. All right. And in the course of your doing
17 your search, you ran across correspondence
18 indicating that there was a connection between Mark
19 Geragos and Bradley Miller, correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. All right. Now, you mentioned that on one
22 of the tapes there, there was a reference -- maybe
23 more than one, but at least one of the tapes there’s
24 a reference to, quote, “Michael Jackson” --
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. -- correct?
27 You’re familiar with the manner in which
28 private investigators work, to a certain extent, 6881
1 correct?
2 A. To a certain extent, yes.
3 Q. You’ve never been one?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. All right. But you have certainly dealt
6 with a lot of private investigators during your
7 career, correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And a lot of your colleagues in years gone
10 by, who retired from law enforcement, have become
11 private investigators, correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. And private investigators, when
14 they’re working for a lawyer, are usually assigned
15 to work on a particular case; is that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And often they will give the name of
18 their -- the client of the lawyer -- let me withdraw
19 that.
20 Often the name of the lawyer’s client will
21 be the designation that they will place on their
22 materials; is that correct?
23 A. My answer would be a guess. I don’t know
24 one way or the other.
25 Q. It’s not unusual for people on either side
26 of the -- of the matter, either a private
27 investigator working for a defense lawyer or law
28 enforcement, to refer to, for instance, “the Smith 6882
1 case,” am I right?
2 A. That’s correct.
3 Q. So you’d refer to matters pertaining to an
4 investigation relating to Mr. Smith as being “the
5 Smith matter,” right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. That does not, in and of itself,
8 imply that Mr. Smith had any particular control or
9 direction over anything that --
10 MR. ZONEN: I would object to this as
11 speculative and beyond the scope of this witness’s
12 expertise.
13 MR. SANGER: I didn’t finish the question,
14 but the Court got the gist of it, I suppose.
15 THE COURT: Go ahead and finish.
16 MR. SANGER: All right. Let me try to start
17 it over.
18 Q. The fact that, for instance, hypothetically,
19 based on your training and experience, the name
20 “Smith” appeared on a file or a videotape, or
21 something of that sort, would not necessarily mean
22 that Mr. Smith had any control or direction with
23 regard to what the private investigator is doing; is
24 that correct?
25 THE COURT: I’ll sustain the objection.
26 MR. SANGER: All right. Very well. No
27 further questions.
28 // 6883
1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. ZONEN:
3 Q. You mentioned the presence of an affidavit.
4 Was that an affidavit to a search warrant?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And did you have that search warrant with
7 you?
8 A. I had the search warrant with me, yes, sir.
9 Q. And had you reviewed the affidavit prior to
10 the execution of the search?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. That was a search warrant authorized by a
13 judge in Santa Barbara County; is that correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 MR. ZONEN: No further questions.
16 MR. SANGER: I’m going to move to strike the
17 last question and answer, Your Honor, as beyond the
18 scope of direct and irrelevant.
19 THE COURT: It is beyond the scope, but I’ll
20 allow the question.
21 Do you want any examination on the issue?
22 MR. SANGER: No, Your Honor. That’s fine.
23 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may
24 step down.
25 MR. ZONEN: We’ll call Detective Rod Forney
26 to the stand.
27 THE COURT: You know, we’re just going to
28 start -- in a couple minutes we’re going to start 6884
1 the in-camera hearing, so have the next witness
2 available at quarter to 12:00.
3 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
4 THE COURT: We’ll excuse you a little early
5 for lunch; be in a few minutes.
6 The nature of the hearing that we’re going
7 to have is going to be in camera, in chambers, and
8 I’ll have the court reporter and an attorney from
9 each side come back. And Mr. Jackson may attend or
10 may not attend, as you deem -- whatever you request,
11 Mr. Mesereau.
12 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.
13
14 (Whereupon, proceedings were held in
15 chambers and, having been ordered sealed by the
16 Court, are omitted herefrom.)
17
18 (The following proceedings were held in
19 open court outside the presence and hearing of the
20 jury:)
21
22 THE COURT: Mr. Sneddon, you had indicated
23 you had a scheduling issue you wanted to raise
24 outside the presence of the jury?
25 MR. SNEDDON: I do.
26 THE COURT: Go ahead.
27 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, there are several
28 issues I want to address the Court on, and some of 6885
1 it is going to be some good news for the Court and
2 some of it is going to be bad news for the Court, or
3 end up being bad news for me, one or the other. But
4 in any case, I wanted to alert the Court to several
5 issues.
6 The first one that I want to alert the Court
7 to is, for scheduling purposes, that we believe,
8 under our estimation, that we will probably be
9 completing our evidence by the end of next week, so
10 that the defense is prepared to know that that’s --
11 we estimate we will be done by the end of next week.
12 The second issue involves -- I wanted to
13 alert the Court, because I had a conversation with
14 the attorney from Las Vegas last night, that one of
15 the witnesses who you signed an order of
16 transportation on, Mr. Carter, who is scheduled to
17 be here either Thursday or Friday, that the lawyer
18 indicated to me that he was going to invoke his
19 Fifth Amendment rights with regard to the charges
20 which are currently pending against him in Nevada.
21 And that raises several issues to the Court, and to
22 us personally, with regard to his testimony.
23 And I thoroughly intended to have for the
24 Court this morning a memorandum of the issues
25 involved. And the reason I don’t is because Mr.
26 Franklin’s computer blew up, and playing around with
27 it trying to get the two documents that I had
28 prepared and should have been here this morning and 6886
1 filed by 8:30 didn’t -- aren’t done yet. And my
2 last estimate is they’re working on the computer to
3 free up the stuff that’s in there. I don’t
4 understand it, but a 15-year-old teenager probably
5 does.
6 So in any case, those were issues I wanted
7 to bring to the Court’s attention that are issues
8 before Mr. Carter testifies. And that’s why I had
9 the order changed from Thursday to Friday.
10 In addition to that, there are several
11 outstanding issues that we’re going to ask -- one of
12 the other things that we were going to file at 8:30
13 this morning was to calendar with the clerk a
14 hearing, like we did on the 1108, that it’s now
15 time, since Mrs. Arvizo has testified, to revisit
16 the issues the Court postponed on the testimony of
17 the domestic violence expert that we filed briefs on
18 and counsel for the defendant filed briefs on.
19 And so before we can go forward on that
20 front, we need to get some rulings from the Court on
21 that, as well as, the Court knows, the issue that I
22 filed and you asked that counsel for the defense did
23 a brief yesterday on Mr. Abdool.
24 So that’s a long way of saying that the good
25 news is, I believe that we’re about to the point
26 where we can close off our case next week.
27 The bad news, which I was saving for last,
28 is I don’t think we have enough witnesses to 6887
1 complete this week. And I’m very concerned about
2 our ability to bring anybody in on Friday
3 particularly. And the reason for that is that a lot
4 of the witnesses that are on for next week are
5 people who are coming from -- involve telephone
6 records and things of that nature, which we had to
7 give advance warning and are not local people. And
8 we had to line it up in terms of their
9 transportation and in terms of their ability to stay
10 in order to try not to spend extra money having
11 people fly and cancel trips and pay penalties on
12 flights and stuff like that.
13 And we believe that we can put all of those
14 people on on Tuesday. We’ll have witnesses on
15 Monday. But I believe that -- that also, like I
16 said, we can’t go forward on some of these until we
17 get some rulings.
18 And the last thing is that we want to look
19 at those disks, because that could impact what we do
20 in the future. And not having had an opportunity to
21 look at those and it’s not simply something that we
22 can simply turn over to investigators and say, “Look
23 at these things,” I think we, as the lawyers
24 involved in the case, are going to need an
25 opportunity to do that.
26 So I guess what I’m telling the Court is
27 that -- that we will be able to go forward as the
28 Court has asked us to in the past, and that’s 6888
1 consecutively with witnesses, but I believe on
2 Friday that we will have a very difficult time
3 rustling up anybody for that date. We did not
4 anticipate certain things that have happened in this
5 courtroom today or yesterday, and so that’s where we
6 are. And that’s the status on everything.
7 And as you know, we’ve only -- one time
8 since we started our case did we finish early. So I
9 think we’ve followed the spirit, if not the letter,
10 of the Court’s rulings. And I think we just have
11 reached a point where trying to get the caboose in
12 line for the finish has been a little more difficult
13 than keeping the train on track to this point.
14 THE COURT: Do you have enough witnesses for
15 tomorrow morning?
16 MR. SNEDDON: At this particular point in
17 time, we believe we do. It will be close, but I
18 think, you know, the Court wanted us to get that
19 three hours in, so -- but it’s a local witness. So
20 if you were contemplating something else, I could
21 push that witness off to the next day or something.
22 THE COURT: Well, I think the jurors would be
23 happier with a three-day weekend than with an
24 interruption in the middle of the week. I don’t
25 know that, but I think so.
26 MR. SNEDDON: I agree with you.
27 THE COURT: So then the -- so, Mr. Mesereau,
28 before I start saying anything, do you want to be 6889
1 heard?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, we plan to call a
3 lot of witnesses and we could run into some
4 scheduling problems and we may be asking for some
5 consideration, so I think the least we could do is
6 be considerate in this regard. Because I think
7 anytime you’re putting on a lengthy case, you can
8 run into scheduling difficulties. So --
9 THE COURT: Are you saying that you
10 sympathize with Mr. Sneddon?
11 (Laugher.)
12 MR. MESEREAU: I believe -- I think we
13 should take Friday off, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: How about the motions?
15 I think the domestic violence one, we have
16 all the material. I just needed to know where we
17 were. You may want to make some additional points
18 on that, each side, before I rule. But as far as
19 the written work done, it’s done, I think.
20 MR. MESEREAU: And there are some other
21 issues, Your Honor, I think, like the motion Miss Yu
22 filed, which is important to our case.
23 THE CLERK: Can’t hear, Judge.
24 THE COURT: They can’t hear you in the back.
25 MR. MESEREAU: The motion that Miss Yu filed
26 dealing with examination on sexual conduct --
27 THE COURT: Oh, yeah.
28 MR. MESEREAU: -- is an important one to us. 6890
1 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, could I give you two
2 other things to factor into your contemplation?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 MR. SNEDDON: We anticipate filing, no later
5 than tomorrow morning, two other motions for
6 reconsideration on issues that the Court’s
7 addressed. They’re short, brief motions, but we’ve
8 almost got them finished.
9 THE COURT: All right. Well, I think the
10 way that I would like to handle it, then, would be
11 that we take whatever evidence you have -- today,
12 how much evidence do you have for today?
13 MR. SNEDDON: How much we have today, Your
14 Honor? I think -- I think we’ll probably finish the
15 day out.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 MR. SNEDDON: I wasn’t short today. I mean,
18 we could get ten minutes short or something, but I
19 think we’ll be here the rest of the day.
20 THE COURT: Let’s finish the day out with
21 evidence. And then what I would do is, if we finish
22 early with evidence on Thursday, we’ll start the
23 motions. I think we could all do with Friday off,
24 so if we can hear -- if we can get to the end of the
25 evidence and still have the motions before Friday,
26 that would be a good thing, so let’s make that our
27 goal.
28 MR. SNEDDON: I can arrange that, Judge. 6891
1 I can drop one witness off the bottom.
2 THE COURT: You can do that?
3 MR. SNEDDON: I can do that, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Okay. So let’s do that. Let’s
5 figure that we’ll use today, tomorrow, and -- half
6 of tomorrow and Thursday, and we’ll go dark Friday,
7 but we’ll have the motions done before we leave.
8 That’s a condition.
9 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.
10 THE COURT: We will hear the motions before
11 Friday.
12 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
13 MR. SNEDDON: All right.
14
15 (The following proceedings were held in
16 open court in the presence and hearing of the
17 jury:)
18
19 MR. ZONEN: We’ll call Rod Forney to the
20 stand, please.
21 THE COURT: Please raise your right hand and
22 be sworn.
23
24 ROD FORNEY
25 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
26
27 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
28 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and 6892
1 spell your name for the record.
2 THE WITNESS: Rod, R-o-d, Forney,
3 F-o-r-n-e-y.
4 THE CLERK: Thank you.
5
6 DIRECT EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. ZONEN:
8 Q. Sir, what is your current occupation?
9 A. I’m a detective for the Santa Barbara County
10 Sheriff’s Office.
11 Q. You’ve been so employed for what period of
12 time?
13 A. For the sheriff’s department, approximately
14 11 years.
15 Q. And as a detective?
16 A. As a detective for approximately five years.
17 Q. And your current assignment is what?
18 A. As a detective in the Coastal Operations
19 Bureau, which is in Carpinteria.
20 Q. Were you called to assist on the execution
21 of a search warrant back on the 18th of November,
22 2003, at an office in Beverly Hills?
23 A. Yes, I was.
24 Q. Do you happen to remember the address?
25 A. It was 211 South Beverly Drive, and it was
26 Suite -- or Room No. 108.
27 Q. Do you recall whose office it was?
28 A. Yes, sir, I do. 6893
Subject: April 19, 2005 
Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:38 am
