1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Terry Flaa at that time, in fact, was the
3 lead investigator on the case; is that correct.
4 A. I believe so, yes.
5 Q. You -- he -- let me withdraw that.
6 He filed a report saying that there was no
7 criminal activity; is that right.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And that report was filed on April the 16th
10 of 2003, correct.
11 A. I’m not sure of the date.
12 Q. It was filed sometime before you got
13 involved in the case, right.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. And then June 13th you requested his
16 police reports and files; is that correct.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did you ever talk to Detective Flaa.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. When did you talk to him. Well, did you
21 ever talk to him about this case.
22 A. I don’t believe so.
23 Q. All right. So you took over the case and
24 requested his reports, but you never talked to him
25 about the case.
26 A. Correct.
27 Q. And then about a month after you got
28 involved in the case, Sergeant Robel was brought in; 2364
1 correct.
2 A. Yes. He’d been in the division a lot longer
3 than I had.
4 Q. And he also had quite a bit of specialized
5 training in sexual offense cases; is that correct.
6 A. That’s my -- that’s what I believe, yes.
7 Q. Okay. And he eventually, by the end of the
8 year or so, he left the sheriff’s department,
9 correct.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And then he went to work at the Santa Maria
12 Police Department; is that correct.
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Okay. During that year, or I’m sorry, half
15 a year while he was still at the department, did you
16 and Sergeant Robel consult with him on this case.
17 A. Together, do you mean.
18 Q. Independently or together.
19 A. I can’t speak for Sergeant Robel, but I
20 believe I may have talked with him, yes.
21 Q. You may have talked with him. Do you recall
22 consulting with him on this case.
23 A. Not specifically, but I may have.
24 Q. Okay. And he found that there was no
25 criminal activity, right.
26 A. Correct.
27 Q. And he was pretty much out of the picture
28 after that; is that correct. 2367
1 A. Yes.
2 MR. SANGER: Okay. No further questions.
3
4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. SNEDDON:
6 Q. Detective Zelis, I actually have just one
7 question. And I want to direct your attention back
8 to Mr. Sanger’s examination about Gavin’s response
9 to my question on the day that you were interviewing
10 him. Do you recall that.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you recall, that report in front of you,
13 is that with the one you took a long time to find.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. At the time -- let me ask you a
16 question. If you don’t remember the answer, I’ll
17 allow you to look at it and you can refresh your
18 recollection.
19 Mr. Sanger didn’t finish reading the rest of
20 the questions and answers, but at the time that
21 Gavin made that statement, was he talking about
22 something that he believed at the time that the
23 rebuttal was made or something that he was
24 reflecting back on.
25 MR. SANGER: Objection; calls for
26 speculation.
27 THE COURT: Sustained.
28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Based -- based on Gavin’s 2368
1 statement during that conversation, was he
2 indicating that that was his current belief as to
3 what happened or that was his state of mind at the
4 time that the rebuttal film was made.
5 MR. SANGER: I still object. That calls for
6 speculation.
7 THE COURT: Sustained.
8 MR. SNEDDON: Judge --
9 THE COURT: You can have him state what he
10 said, not what his conclusion is.
11 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I was trying to do
12 it -- all right. I’ll do that.
13 Q. Question by me: “Did you think that at the
14 time, or that that’s what you think now, now that
15 you see it.
16 “A. No. That’s what I think now, when I
17 see it, everything.”
18 Was that his statement to you at that
19 time --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- in relationship to the question Mr.
22 Sanger had brought to your attention that I asked
23 him earlier.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. That was the question and answer that
26 preceded the entire conversation.
27 A. Correct.
28 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further. 2369
1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. SANGER:
3 Q. All right. Just so we’re clear, because we
4 had the words “preceded” and so on there, what Mr.
5 Sneddon just read to you, you were following in the
6 transcript; is that correct.
7 A. Not at the same time, no.
8 Q. Oh, okay. Then during the break he reviewed
9 this with you; is that correct.
10 A. No.
11 Q. Did you see this during the break.
12 A. You let me read it.
13 Q. Pardon.
14 A. I believe you let me read it.
15 Q. Okay. Okay. So maybe I didn’t ask that
16 question correctly. Mr. Sneddon, during the break,
17 let you read that part of the transcript.
18 A. No.
19 Q. What are you talking about. You said he let
20 you read it.
21 A. No, I said, “You let me read it.”
22 Q. Oh, okay. I didn’t let you read it during
23 the break.
24 A. No.
25 Q. But if you’d asked, I probably would have,
26 but -- all right. During the break, did you discuss
27 that with Mr. Sneddon at all.
28 A. No. 2370
1 Q. All right. So he got up there and he asked
2 you about these comments preceding the comments that
3 he made; is that right.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. These comments did not precede the comments
6 that Mr. Sneddon made, did they.
7 May I approach the witness.
8 THE COURT: Yes.
9 Q. BY MR. SANGER: I’m going to show you the
10 transcript.
11 MR. SNEDDON: That’s what I was trying to
12 do.
13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: What Mr. Sneddon just read
14 to you came after the exchange between Mr. Sneddon
15 and Gavin; is that correct.
16 A. May I --
17 Q. You can look at whatever you want to look at
18 in there.
19 A. It is after the question by Mr. Sneddon to
20 Gavin.
21 Q. And after Gavin gave his explanation about,
22 “Yeah, that’s what they were doing, and it was 99.9
23 percent of it was not true.” Right.
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. And then what Mr. Sneddon read followed
26 that; is that correct.
27 A. Correct.
28 MR. SANGER: Okay. I have no further 2371
1 questions.
2 May I approach to retrieve my book.
3 MR. SNEDDON: No questions, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 All right. You may step down. Call your
6 next witness.
7 MR. SNEDDON: Detective Alvarez.
8 THE COURT: All right. When you get to the
9 witness stand, please remain standing. Face the
10 clerk and raise your right hand.
11
12 VICTOR M. ALVAREZ
13 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
14
15 THE WITNESS: I do.
16 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
17 spell your name for the record.
18 THE WITNESS: My name is Victor M. Alvarez.
19 A-l-v-a-r-e-z.
20 THE CLERK: Thank you.
21
22 DIRECT EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. SNEDDON:
24 Q. Detective Alvarez, you’re a deputy sheriff.
25 A. That’s correct.
26 Q. How long have you been a deputy sheriff.
27 A. About 25 and a half years.
28 Q. And you’re a detective now, correct. 2372
1 A. That’s correct.
2 Q. How long have you been a detective.
3 A. Five and a half years.
4 Q. And did -- some point in time, did you get
5 assigned to work as one of the detectives on the
6 investigation into the child molestation charges
7 against the defendant in this case, Mr. Jackson.
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Do you recall when it was that you were
10 assigned.
11 A. I think it was approximately one week before
12 the initial search warrant.
13 Q. And do you remember what month and year that
14 would have been, then.
15 A. It would have been November of 2003.
16 Q. During the course of your time as a
17 detective on this particular case, were you asked to
18 obtain some rolled fingerprint impressions from the
19 Arvizo boys.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Do you remember when you did that. Just
22 generally the month and the year.
23 A. I would imagine it was three or four months
24 ago.
25 Q. All right. Let me show you an exhibit. It
26 might help.
27 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
28 table.) 2373
1 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’ve handed you an exhibit
2 marked 287 for identification purposes. Do you
3 recognize that exhibit.
4 A. I do.
5 Q. When and where was the first time you saw
6 that exhibit.
7 A. When I sealed it, and when I rolled these
8 fingerprints.
9 Q. And you were the one responsible for rolling
10 those prints.
11 A. That’s correct.
12 Q. Where were you when you rolled them.
13 A. At the Arvizo home.
14 Q. And the prints contained in that exhibit are
15 the prints of both boys.
16 A. That’s correct.
17 Q. All right. And then you sealed and booked
18 it into evidence.
19 A. I did.
20 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I move that be
21 admitted into evidence, People’s 287.
22 MR. SANGER: No objection.
23 THE COURT: All right. It’s admitted.
24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Let’s go back a
25 little bit in time to prior, at the time that you
26 were assigned to the case.
27 Were you involved in the execution of the
28 search warrant on November the 18th of 2003 at 2374
1 Neverland Valley Ranch.
2 A. Not -- I was assigned to do an interview
3 prior to going to the ranch.
4 Q. And did somebody go with you to that
5 interview.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Who was that.
8 A. Detective Bonner.
9 Q. And where did the interview take place.
10 A. At the Santa Maria Sheriff’s Department
11 Substation.
12 Q. And who did you meet there.
13 A. Jesus Salas.
14 Q. And did you videotape that conversation.
15 A. We did.
16 Q. And do you speak Spanish.
17 A. I do.
18 Q. Mr. Salas speaks Spanish.
19 A. He speaks English pretty good. But if there
20 was a word that he didn’t understand or was stuck on
21 a word, I translated for him.
22 Q. Now, after you completed your conversation
23 with Mr. Salas on the 18th -- by the way, we didn’t
24 establish everything, but what time was it when you
25 made contact with Mr. Salas.
26 A. We called Mr. Salas, or we were to meet with
27 Mr. Salas, it was a prearranged meeting, at 7:00 in
28 the morning. 2375
1 Q. Did Mr. Salas know what the purpose of the
2 meeting was.
3 A. No.
4 Q. And did you meet him at 7:00.
5 A. If it wasn’t at 7:00, it was very close to
6 7:00, shortly thereafter.
7 Q. After you finished your conversation with
8 Mr. Salas, what did you do.
9 A. We left the Santa Maria substation and went
10 to Neverland Ranch.
11 Q. When you say “we,” who was with you.
12 A. Detective Bonner.
13 Q. And do you remember about what time it was
14 when you got to the ranch.
15 A. Close to ten o’clock.
16 Q. And when you arrived at the ranch, were you
17 assigned any particular responsibilities at that
18 time.
19 A. Yes, I was.
20 Q. What responsibilities were you assigned.
21 A. To help with the interview of the Neverland
22 employees.
23 Q. And after you completed that, were you given
24 any other assignments.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And what assignments were those.
27 A. To search -- to help continue the search of
28 Mr. Jackson’s master bedroom. 2376
1 Q. And do you recall approximately what time it
2 was when you became involved in those activities.
3 A. I’d say about 11:00 or 11:30 in the morning.
4 Q. During the course of the time that you were
5 there, did you seize some items that were eventually
6 booked into evidence.
7 A. I did.
8 Q. Do you remember the first thing that you
9 found.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And what was that.
12 A. They were some books containing adult
13 material that were located near the bathtub in the
14 master bedroom -- or master bathroom.
15 Q. All right. Anything else that you found
16 that day that you eventually seized.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What else.
19 A. A black computer bag that would be for a
20 laptop, the name was Targus, T-a-r-g-u-s, that
21 contained adult videos and adult magazines.
22 Q. And where was that located.
23 A. That was located on the floor in the master
24 bathroom next to the sink area, so it would be in
25 between the sink and the round bathtub.
26 Q. All right.
27 MR. SANGER: What’s the number.
28 MR. SNEDDON: I’m putting that on there now. 2377
1 Your Honor, I have a large brown paper bag
2 with the numbers “03-5670” at the top in black.
3 I’ve shown the bag and its contents to Mr. Sanger
4 for his examination. I’d like to show it to the
5 witness.
6 THE COURT: All right.
7 MR. SANGER: I guess the question was, did
8 it have an exhibit number.
9 MR. SNEDDON: I beg your pardon. 288.
10 Q. Would you take a look at the item contained
11 in People’s 288. Do you recognize that.
12 A. I do.
13 Q. And when and where was the first time you
14 saw that item.
15 A. I saw it in the master bedroom -- I’m
16 sorry, in the master bathroom downstairs area on the
17 floor next to the sink.
18 Q. Now, when you obtained that item, what did
19 you do with it after seizing it.
20 A. Prior to seizing it, I opened it up and saw
21 the material that was inside.
22 Q. All right. And then what did you do with --
23 did you take the materials out or did you leave them
24 inside.
25 A. I left them in, and I sealed this bag and
26 the big evidence bag.
27 Q. All right. So it was then booked into
28 evidence. 2378
1 A. The whole thing was, yes.
2 Q. Okay. Move that People’s 288 be admitted
3 into evidence, Your Honor.
4 MR. SANGER: No objection. Obviously, other
5 than prior objections.
6 THE COURT: Right.
7 MR. SANGER: May that remain unstated.
8 THE COURT: Yes.
9 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
10 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to show you a
12 photograph, and that photograph has been marked as
13 People’s 57 for identification purposes, and ask if
14 you recognize that photograph.
15 A. I do.
16 Q. And are the areas depicted in that
17 photograph an accurate depiction as you saw it on
18 the morning of November the 18th, 2003.
19 A. Yes.
20 MR. SNEDDON: Move that be admitted into
21 evidence, Your Honor.
22 MR. SANGER: I have no objection.
23 THE COURT: All right. It’s admitted.
24 THE BAILIFF: Your Honor, would you hit the
25 button.
26 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, we’re going to
27 need the Elmo.
28 THE COURT: Yes. 2379
1 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. People’s 57 is
2 up on the board. Do you recognize that photograph.
3 A. I do.
4 Q. All right. Could you show the ladies and
5 gentlemen of the jury where the bag, People’s 288,
6 was the first time that you saw it on November 18th,
7 2003.
8 A. It would be right here. Can you see.
9 It would be right there.
10 Q. All right. You’re indicating at the base of
11 the cabinet just below the big speaker.
12 A. Right. Here’s the sink. There’s the bag.
13 And the tub is over here somewhere.
14 Q. All right. Go ahead and sit down, if you
15 want.
16 Now, we can put the lights back on, Your
17 Honor, for right now.
18 All right. Are you okay.
19 Your Honor, I’ll describe for the record
20 what we’ve just done with counsel. We’ve marked for
21 identification three items. The first item is a
22 small brown bag with some white paper on it, with
23 the number 0-3-5670, and has on it the Exhibit 565.
24 Exhibit No. 566 is a large plastic bag,
25 which has a white binder, and it has the number
26 “Item 309-B-1” on the front of it.
27 And the last item is Item 3 -- I’m sorry,
28 Item 567. That’s another white, clear plastic bag, 2380
1 and with -- containing a white binder with the
2 number “Item 309-B-2” on it.
3 In addition to that, Your Honor, I have --
4 in addition to that, Your Honor, I’ve shown counsel
5 two photographs. The first one I’m going to have
6 marked as 289 for identification purposes, and the
7 second one I’m going to have marked as 290 for
8 identification purposes.
9 Madam Clerk, is that okay.
10 THE CLERK: Yes.
11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Why don’t you go ahead and
12 take that bag, the black bag, Exhibit 288, and put
13 it back in there, if you would.
14 All right. Let’s start with the smallest of
15 the bags, the brown bag there, and the number on
16 that is 289.
17 A. It says “565.”
18 Q. Oh, 565. I’m sorry. You’re right. We
19 already pre-numbered those. Different numbering
20 system. Okay, 565.
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. And with regard to that particular item, do
23 you recognize it.
24 A. I do.
25 Q. And when and where was it the first time you
26 saw it.
27 A. Inside the black computer bag.
28 Q. Okay. 2381
1 A. Actually, the contents were inside the black
2 computer bag.
3 Q. The brown bag wasn’t.
4 A. But the contents were, right. Correct.
5 Q. Why don’t you take the brown bag out -- or
6 take the contents out.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. All right. Now, do you recognize those
9 items that you just pulled out.
10 A. I do.
11 Q. And how do you recognize them.
12 A. Just from reading the contents, the outside
13 package of them.
14 Q. Do you recall those are the ones you found
15 inside of the Exhibit 288.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And were you -- were you the one responsible
18 for placing them into that envelope and booking them
19 into evidence.
20 A. Yes.
21 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I move that the
22 contents of 565, the bag and the contents, be
23 admitted into evidence.
24 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
25 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Let me have those
26 for a second.
27 Your Honor, we’re going to need the lights
28 down. 2382
1 Q. With regard to 565, there are two videos
2 inside and I’m going to show the first one. Just go
3 ahead and show it.
4 Now, is that one of the exhibits that you
5 found inside that black briefcase.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All right. Why don’t you show the other
8 one.
9 A. Can you see.
10 THE JURY: (In unison) Yes.
11 MR. SNEDDON: Probably don’t want to.
12 Q. Is that the other one that you found.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right. Thank you.
15 By the way, inside of that briefcase, do you
16 recall whether you found any documents or indicia of
17 belonging to Mr. Jackson.
18 A. I don’t recall.
19 Q. Okay. We’ll get back to that.
20 Now, let’s take the clear plastic bags that
21 are in front of you, okay. And let’s talk, first of
22 all, about the one that is marked as 565 for
23 identification purposes. Do you see that.
24 A. No, I see 290 and 289.
25 Q. No, not the --
26 A. I’m sorry.
27 THE COURT: 565 is the one you just showed.
28 THE WITNESS: 567. 2383
1 THE COURT: Go ahead.
2 MR. SNEDDON: I’m sorry, Your Honor.
3 THE WITNESS: I have 567 and 566.
4 MR. SNEDDON: All right. My sheet’s wrong.
5 Q. All right. Let’s talk about 566 first.
6 Now, with regard to -- there’s a photograph
7 up there in front of you that goes with that binder,
8 correct.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You can flip it over on the other side to
11 match up the number.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. Is that correct.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And the photograph is exhibit what.
16 A. 289.
17 Q. All right. Now, is 289 an accurate
18 depiction of the front cover of the Exhibit 566.
19 Take it out and look at it, if you want to.
20 A. Yes, it is.
21 MR. SNEDDON: Move that 289 be admitted into
22 evidence, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And with regard to the
25 Exhibit 566, that’s the item that you found in the
26 bag and that was also booked into evidence; is that
27 correct.
28 A. That’s correct. 2384
1 Q. And you were responsible for that.
2 A. Yes.
3 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I move that 566 be
4 admitted.
5 MR. SANGER: I’m going to object to 566.
6 It’s been placed in a binder, and there’s -- there’s
7 not an adequate foundation for the exhibit as
8 offered right now.
9 THE COURT: All right. Sustained.
10 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. That’s not a problem.
11 Q. Okay. Why don’t you put that back in the
12 bag.
13 Let’s turn to 567.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. And there’s a photograph that goes with 567.
16 And what’s the number on that. 290.
17 A. 290.
18 Q. All right. Now, with regard to the Exhibit
19 567, where was that the first time you saw it.
20 A. Inside the black computer bag.
21 Q. The one that’s in evidence as 288.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. All right. And were you responsible for
24 booking that into evidence.
25 A. I was.
26 Q. Now, at the time that -- that you booked
27 that particular item into evidence, was it in a
28 binder like that. 2385
1 A. No, it wasn’t.
2 Q. It was still all together.
3 A. Like a normal paperback magazine.
4 Q. Okay. Now, take a look at the Exhibit 290,
5 the photograph.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Is the Exhibit 290 an accurate depiction of
8 the front cover of the Exhibit 567.
9 A. It is.
10 MR. SNEDDON: Move that 290 be admitted into
11 evidence, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
13 MR. SNEDDON: Ron. Would you scoot that
14 down so we can see. All right.
15 Q. Detective Alvarez, the exhibit marked as
16 289, is that the exhibit that you found inside of
17 288.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Is that the condition of the magazine at the
20 time that you seized it.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. All right. Let’s put up 290. And was this
23 the other magazine you seized.
24 A. Yes, it was.
25 Q. And was that the condition of the magazine
26 at the time you seized it.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. All right. Thank you. 2386
1 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
2 table.)
3 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.
4 MR. SANGER: Yeah.
5 MR. SNEDDON: In addition to that, Your
6 Honor, I have -- I’ll identify this in just a
7 moment.
8 THE COURT: All right.
9 MR. SNEDDON: Or I can do it now, if it
10 makes it easier.
11 I have a brown paper bag with the number
12 “304” in black letters in the upper right-hand
13 corner. And that’s been marked as People’s 562, the
14 brown and its contents. “The brown.” The bag.
15 And then there is a clear plastic bag, Your
16 Honor, that contains two exhibits. One is a
17 white -- another plastic bag with a white binder
18 with the number “563” on it, and the number “Item
19 304-C” on the outside.
20 And the next item has been marked as 564,
21 and it’s another white binder with “Item 304-D” on
22 it, Your Honor.
23 And then I have three exhibits that I’d like
24 to have marked. The first one is -- is a photograph
25 marked as 291. The second one is another photograph
26 that has the number “304-C” on it, and that is 292.
27 And the last photograph is 304-D, and that
28 will be 293. 2387
1 Do you want to look at these.
2 MR. SANGER: I think I know what they are,
3 but let me look at them.
4 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.
5 MR. SANGER: Yeah.
6 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And maybe you could -- I’ll
7 take these back, actually. How’s that.
8 Okay. Detective Alvarez, let’s start with
9 the brown bag, if we could. That, I believe, is
10 Exhibit 563.
11 A. 291. Brown bag is 291. Or, I’m sorry, 562.
12 Q. 562, all right. Do you recognize the bag.
13 A. I do.
14 Q. And how do you recognize it.
15 A. I booked this into evidence.
16 Q. All right. Would you open the bag up and
17 take out the contents.
18 All right. Do you recognize the contents.
19 A. I do.
20 Q. And when and where was that. Where did you
21 see that for the first time.
22 A. In the master bed -- master bedroom bathroom
23 in between the sink and the tub, on the floor area.
24 Q. And is that one of the items you collected.
25 A. I did.
26 Q. Now, there is a photograph.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. 291. Do you see that. 2388
1 A. I do.
2 Q. And is that photograph an accurate
3 depiction, or does it accurately depict the cover of
4 the exhibit --
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. -- 562.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And is the exhibit, 562, the magazine you’ve
9 taken out of the brown bag, in the same condition
10 that it was at the time that you seized it on
11 November 18th, 2003.
12 A. Yes.
13 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I move it be
14 admitted, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
16 BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Let’s move --
17 if I didn’t, Your Honor, I’d like to move that 291
18 be admitted, the photograph.
19 THE COURT: It’s admitted. Okay.
20 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, if we can move to the
21 next exhibit, one of the -- either one of the
22 binders is fine. Take whatever one you have. Tell
23 us an exhibit number on that one.
24 A. 564.
25 Q. And does that have an item number on it, on
26 the front of the binder.
27 A. Item number is 304-D.
28 Q. 304 -- 2389
1 A. “D” as in “David.”
2 Q. Okay. Now, you have a photograph up there.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That’s 293, I believe.
5 A. 293.
6 Q. Okay. Would you compare 293 with the front
7 cover of the Exhibit 564.
8 A. It’s the same.
9 Q. And what’s -- and that’s 293, correct.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. The photo. And is that --
12 A. 293.
13 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the cover
14 of the Exhibit 564.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Now, with regard to the Exhibit 564, at the
17 time that you first saw it and the time that you
18 seized it, was it in the condition that it is in
19 now.
20 A. No.
21 Q. And when you seized it and placed it into
22 evidence, what was the condition of that particular
23 item that we’ve had identified as Exhibit 564.
24 A. It was in a regular paperback magazine
25 condition.
26 Q. Okay. All right. Let’s -- you can put that
27 one back in the bag, if you’d like.
28 And if you’d keep the photograph, 293, with 2390
1 it, that would be great.
2 Now, let’s direct your attention to the last
3 exhibit that you have up there.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. And the number on that is what, on the
6 plastic bag with the --
7 A. Okay. The item number is 304-C --
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. -- as in “Charles.”
10 Q. And what’s the exhibit number.
11 A. 563.
12 Q. Okay. Now, with regard to that particular
13 exhibit, there is a photograph up there, correct.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. 292.
16 A. 292.
17 Q. Would you comapre the photograph, 292, with
18 the front cover of Exhibit 563.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. And is it an accurate depiction of what that
21 cover looks like.
22 A. Yes, it is.
23 Q. And with regard to that particular exhibit,
24 563, was that exhibit in a binder when you first
25 found it.
26 A. No, it wasn’t.
27 Q. What was its condition at the time that you
28 seized it and booked it into evidence. 2391
1 A. It was a regular paperback magazine
2 condition.
3 Q. Hand me the photographs, the three
4 photographs, if you would. And go ahead and put
5 that back in the bag.
6 All right. We’re going to display the
7 exhibits on the board. We’re going to start with
8 291. It’s in evidence.
9 Is that an accurate depiction of the book at
10 the time you first saw it and seized it.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. At least the cover.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right. Go ahead, you can -- that’s 293,
15 correct.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of the
18 book when you first saw it and seized it.
19 A. Yes.
20 THE COURT: 292 and 293 haven’t gone into
21 evidence yet. You didn’t ask for them.
22 MR. SNEDDON: I do, then, Your Honor. I
23 apologize. I get so routine about them.
24 THE COURT: All right. 292 and 293 are
25 admitted.
26 MR. SNEDDON: All right. So did we --
27 THE COURT: Go ahead.
28 MR. SNEDDON: Was 292 already up. 2392
1 MR. ZONEN: Yes.
2 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Let’s do the last
3 one, 293, then.
4 MR. ZONEN: 293 was the last one. 292 is
5 the one before it.
6 MR. SNEDDON: We’re going to do 292 now.
7 Q. Do you recognize that.
8 A. I do.
9 Q. Is that the condition of the magazine at the
10 time that you seized it.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And I say -- by “that,” I mean the Exhibit
13 292.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. That’s depicted in that.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. Thank you.
18 When you seized the bag, 309 --
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. -- okay. - did you go through the contents
21 of the bag or did you just --
22 A. Yes, I did. I opened it up, and I saw what
23 was inside.
24 Q. Did you go through the paperwork in the bag.
25 A. I went through everything that was in that
26 bag.
27 Q. Okay. Let me -- and -- I guess I have to
28 ask you to take that bag out again. 2393
1 Your Honor, for purposes of the record, I
2 want to indicate that I’ve withdrawn a document from
3 Exhibit 309. I want to show it to counsel before we
4 move to the next step, but it did come out of the
5 exhibit. It’s 288, I’m sorry.
6 THE COURT: 288.
7 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, sir. So if you’d just
8 hang on to that.
9 Your Honor, I’d like to have the document
10 marked as 294 for identification purposes.
11 THE COURT: All right. I’ll need you to
12 bring that over to the clerk here.
13 MR. SNEDDON: May I go this way, Your Honor.
14 THE CLERK: He has a tag, Judge.
15 THE COURT: Oh, he has a tag.
16 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, she gave me some ahead of
17 time, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: I didn’t know that. Go ahead.
19 MR. SNEDDON: And I’ve shown this document
20 to counsel.
21 Q. Detective Alvarez, with regard to the
22 document I just handed you, Exhibit 294, was that
23 document inside the bag, 309, at the time that you
24 seized it on November the 18th, 2003.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And is it in the same condition now as it
27 was when you saw it for the first time inside that
28 bag. 2394
1 A. It sure looks like it, yes.
2 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Move that be
3 admitted into evidence, Your Honor.
4 MR. SANGER: I’m going to object on the
5 grounds that it violates a current order on a
6 pending matter, if that makes sense.
7 THE COURT: I don’t have the document, so --
8 MR. SNEDDON: You don’t have it.
9 MR. SANGER: Should I approach, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Just hand it to me. You don’t
11 need to approach.
12 MR. SNEDDON: I’m sorry, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: I’ll sustain the objection
14 pending further ruling on that issue.
15 MR. SNEDDON: May I have the officer testify
16 at least showing indicia of the ownership of the
17 bag.
18 THE COURT: Oh. For that purpose.
19 MR. SNEDDON: That’s why I was offering it.
20 THE COURT: That’s the only purpose you’re
21 offering it.
22 MR. SNEDDON: At this point in time, pending
23 the Court’s ruling, that’s why I’m offering it.
24 THE COURT: All right. Just limit his
25 testimony to that part of the document that would do
26 that.
27 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, sir.
28 Q. Now, the document that’s in front of you 2395
1 that’s 294 --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. -- is it addressed to Mr. Jackson.
4 A. It is.
5 Q. And it’s a multi-page document, correct.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Does each page bear the initials “MJ” on it.
8 A. On all 12 pages.
9 MR. SNEDDON: No further questions, Your
10 Honor.
11 MR. SANGER: May I approach to retrieve the
12 exhibits.
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Here’s some of them.
16
17 CROSS-EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. SANGER:
19 Q. All right. Let’s start with your
20 background, if I may, Detective Alvarez.
21 You were a deputy marshal.
22 A. Right.
23 Q. How many years.
24 A. Well, it was from ‘83 to ‘97.
25 Q. Okay. And your duties as a deputy marshal
26 were to be a bailiff in the Municipal Court in the
27 South County, in Santa Barbara.
28 A. For, yeah, that, and serve warrants, 2396
1 evictions, civil process.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Criminal warrants.
4 Q. And then after the courts consolidated, the
5 Municipal Court consolidated with the Superior
6 Court, you opted to become a deputy sheriff; is that
7 correct.
8 A. We were absorbed as a -- one department.
9 Q. Okay. So when the courts consolidated, the
10 marshal then -- the marshal’s office consolidated.
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. And the deputy marshals then became deputy
13 sheriffs; is that right.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. And at that point you began
16 working as a detective immediately.
17 A. No.
18 Q. You were on patrol for a while.
19 A. Well, I went to -- I became a background
20 investigator. I actually had a knee injury that put
21 me out on light duty for about six months. And I
22 continued to work, and I was -- I worked in
23 personnel as a background investigator. I went --
24 once I was cleared by my doctor, I went back to work
25 in the courts for -- so --
26 Q. For a while, okay. And when you say
27 “personnel investigator,” you were doing background
28 checks for people who were applying to work at the 2397
1 sheriff’s department.
2 A. That’s correct. New hires.
3 Q. All right.
4 A. And also, I was helping in the detective
5 bureau doing interviews and -- just helping out.
6 Q. All right. There you go. In any event, I
7 guess my question is, when did you become a
8 detective.
9 A. November of ‘99.
10 Q. Okay. So as of the time of the case that
11 we’re talking about here, the -- let me withdraw
12 that.
13 When did you become involved in this case.
14 A. Approximately a week before the initial
15 search, which was November 18th of 2002.
16 Q. How about November 18th of 2003.
17 A. 2003.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. I don’t want to talk you into anything,
21 but --
22 A. A year and a half ago.
23 Q. Okay. So -- and you started as a detective
24 in November of ‘99, right. So you had four years as
25 a detective at the time you were assigned to this
26 case.
27 A. Approximately.
28 Q. All right. 2398
1 A. I’ve got over five years as a detective now,
2 and I’ve been on this case for about a year and a
3 half.
4 Q. Okay. So that would be about four years,
5 right.
6 A. Sounds good to me.
7 Q. Okay. And you remained -- after you were
8 brought into the case, you remained as one of the
9 main detectives on this case; is that correct.
10 A. That’s correct. One of the lead
11 investigators.
12 Q. So you’re a co-lead investigator with
13 Detective Zelis and with Sergeant Robel.
14 A. And Detective Bonner, yes.
15 Q. And Detective Bonner. All right.
16 Okay. Now, let me ask you -- let’s just
17 start again somewhat at the end of things. You were
18 aware, were you not, sir, that the events in this
19 case were alleged to have occurred in February and
20 March of 2003; is that right.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And so in November of 2003, you get assigned
23 to the case and eventually you end up out at
24 Neverland Valley Ranch during the search, correct.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. I’m going to ask you -- in fact, what I
27 might do is just approach -- well, let’s do it this
28 way. Let me put it up, if the Court doesn’t mind. 2399
1 Are we hooked up to this.
2 MR. ZONEN: Go ahead.
3 MR. SANGER: These were 293 and 292.
4 Q. 292 is a “Penthouse” magazine of some sort,
5 right.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And that’s commercially available, correct.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. It’s also not unlawful to possess it, in and
10 of itself, correct.
11 A. No.
12 Q. I said “correct.” I’m sorry. Is it lawful
13 to possess it, for an adult to possess this
14 magazine.
15 A. For an adult, yes.
16 Q. Okay. There you go.
17 All right. And you’re aware that the
18 alleged incidents, the incidents were alleged to
19 have occurred in February and March of 2003, right.
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. What’s the date on this magazine.
22 A. I can’t read it from here. It’s --
23 Q. Okay. May I approach, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Yes.
25 Q. BY MR. SANGER: I can bring you the
26 magazine, but I think you can see it on the exhibit
27 here.
28 A. I still can’t read that. 2400
1 Q. All right. Let me bring you the book that
2 goes along with that.
3 May I approach, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 Q. BY MR. SANGER: I’m going to bring you the
6 books here, and we’ll talk about these a little more
7 in a minute.
8 I’ll ask you, if you look at that --
9 Let me stand here for one second, Your
10 Honor, and make sure.
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. SANGER: Okay.
13 Q. Okay. That’s the actual magazine. What’s
14 the date of the magazine.
15 A. I don’t see a date on it.
16 Q. You don’t see a date on it.
17 A. I don’t.
18 THE COURT: You can go up and show where it
19 is.
20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Look right under the “SE” in
21 “Penthouse.”
22 A. Okay.
23 Q. Does it say “July-August of 2003”.
24 A. It does.
25 Q. So is it safe to say, to your knowledge, as
26 one of the co-lead investigators, no individual
27 associated with this case, none of the Arvizos
28 claimed that they saw this particular magazine in 2401
1 February or March of 2003.
2 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, can I object to
3 that question as being compound. Because -- I won’t
4 say anything else, but I object as compound.
5 THE COURT: Sustained.
6 MR. SANGER: All right.
7 Q. To your knowledge, did -- well, this may be
8 compound. I’m going to ask about them as a group.
9 You can say “yes” or “no,” and we can take it one by
10 one.
11 To your knowledge, did any of the Arvizos
12 claim that they saw this magazine in February or
13 March of 2003.
14 A. This particular one.
15 Q. Yes. That particular one.
16 A. I don’t know.
17 Q. As a detective, an investigator, you would
18 suspect that they would not have seen it, correct,
19 since it was published after the events.
20 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to
21 object to that. It calls for a conclusion as to
22 when it was published. No more. I object. Lack of
23 foundation as to when the magazine actually hit the
24 stands.
25 THE COURT: Sustained.
26 MR. SANGER: All right.
27 Q. Based on your experience, do magazines hit
28 the stands, you know, three or four months before 2402
1 their publication date.
2 A. No.
3 Q. Sometimes it’s a month before a publication
4 date.
5 A. I’d say a month. If you’re a subscriber,
6 you usually get them a month early.
7 Q. All right. And I’m going -- I brought you
8 the other book, just in case you can’t read this.
9 But I’m going to put up 293, if I may, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 Q. BY MR. SANGER: And again, this is a
12 commercially available magazine; is that correct.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And you can buy it in a store, in other
15 words.
16 A. Some stores.
17 Q. Yes. Well, not every store, I would agree.
18 What’s the date on this magazine.
19 A. July 2003.
20 Q. While you have those books up there, you
21 notice that the books -- I’m going to take another
22 one out of the bag here, just as an example, just to
23 follow on, but you notice that the books are encased
24 in a three-ring binder, and then each page appears
25 to be in some kind of plastic sleeve; is that
26 correct.
27 A. That’s correct.
28 Q. And did you do that. 2403
1 A. I did not.
2 Q. Let me ask you about the magazine -- I think
3 you may still have the actual magazine up there, but
4 I have 291, which is 562. Put it this way, 562 is
5 the actual magazine. 291 is the copy of the cover.
6 Oh, here it is.
7 A. I have 564 and 563, Mr. Sanger.
8 Q. You’re right, it’s over here.
9 In any event, I’m going to put this up, if I
10 may, 291, Your Honor.
11 291 is a book, correct.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. That’s a cover of the book that you seized;
14 is that right.
15 A. That’s correct. Soft-cover book.
16 Q. And the actual book is a book of
17 illustrations done by an artist, is that correct, or
18 by artists.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. All right. And that is also a commercially
21 available publication. Is that a commercially
22 available publication.
23 A. It appears to be.
24 Q. All right. And it’s not illegal to possess
25 that per se.
26 A. No.
27 Q. Now, excuse me one second.
28 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel 2404
1 table.)
2 Q. BY MR. SANGER: You did the prints that were
3 marked as Exhibit 287, right.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. And you -- to take those
6 fingerprints, you simply rolled the fingerprints.
7 A. They weren’t done with a machine. But the
8 palm prints were done with a roller.
9 Q. Okay. Say that again, because I couldn’t
10 hear what you said.
11 A. You’re looking at the fingerprints
12 themselves.
13 Q. Fingerprint cards.
14 A. Those were done by hand.
15 Q. So you actually rolled the prints.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You had --
18 A. There’s a technique, but, yes.
19 Q. Okay. And you are not a certified
20 fingerprint examiner; is that correct.
21 A. Not examiner, no.
22 Q. All right. You, however, have experience in
23 booking people and rolling their prints, right.
24 A. Booking a lot of people and booking a lot of
25 prints.
26 Q. All right. But you know the difference
27 between that and being a certified fingerprint
28 examiner, of course. 2405
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. Now, going back to your testimony
3 about going through the house, you got there and
4 started your assignment of searching through the
5 house at some time late morning, I think you said it
6 was around 11:00.
7 A. I think I got there at -- I think we
8 interviewed Mr. Salas for about two hours. And
9 driving time from Santa Maria to Los Olivos,
10 another, I don’t know, half hour, 40 minutes. So it
11 was close to 10:00 when we got there.
12 Q. All right. And then --
13 A. Or a little after 10:00.
14 Q. Okay. And your first assignment was to do
15 something else other than search.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. So what I’m getting at, is when you started
18 to assist in the search, that was around 11:00.
19 A. Could be.
20 Q. All right. And by the time you got there to
21 search, quite a number of officers had already been
22 through the house; is that correct.
23 A. There were -- excuse me. There were a lot
24 of officers in the house, but not in Mr. Jackson’s
25 master bedroom area.
26 Q. How many officers were in Mr. Jackson’s
27 master bedroom area when you first arrived there.
28 A. Could have been two or three maybe. 2406
1 Q. When you --
2 A. To start.
3 Q. When you say “master bedroom area,” you’re
4 talking about the whole suite, the first floor,
5 second floor, the bathrooms, all that.
6 A. Yes, I’m talking about down the corridor
7 area where the secure door is.
8 Q. All right. And you believe there are two or
9 three officers there when you arrive.
10 A. No, when I started assisting.
11 Q. Well, that’s what I meant. When you arrived
12 to assist. When you started assisting on the
13 search.
14 A. Yes, there wasn’t a whole lot of detectives
15 in that area.
16 Q. All right. Were you joined by other
17 officers or other law enforcement people in that
18 room as the time went on.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How many people were in there. How many
21 different people were in there while you were there.
22 A. Throughout the day.
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. I -- there was quite a few detectives in
25 there, and forensic people, yes.
26 Q. And Mr. Sneddon came through at one point,
27 did he not.
28 A. He did. 2407
1 Q. All right. Did Mr. Franklin go through that
2 area of the house.
3 A. He did.
4 Q. Before you got there -- by “there,” I mean,
5 you started your search detail. Do you know how
6 many officers had gone through that area.
7 A. I can’t tell you an exact number, but I know
8 it was very limited, because that was the
9 instructions.
10 Q. Okay. So if people followed the
11 instructions, it would have been limited; is that
12 correct.
13 A. “If people followed the instructions,”
14 I didn’t hear your second half.
15 Q. It would have been limited; is that correct.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you’re aware there was a cameraman and a
18 number of detectives who went through the area
19 before the search started itself; is that correct.
20 Well, let me put it this way: I guess
21 that’s part of the search. Before the actual
22 seizures of items commenced, a cameraman and
23 detectives walked through the area; is that right.
24 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to object
25 as lack of foundation.
26 THE COURT: Sustained.
27 Just a minute. My feed’s not working.
28 THE REPORTER: I know, Judge. We’re working 2408
1 on bringing it back up.
2 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.
3 Q. BY MR. SANGER: When you located this black
4 bag that you referred to - and you’ve got it up
5 there. I believe it’s Exhibit No. 288 - it was in
6 the position that you indicated to the jury on the
7 photograph, correct.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And about what time of day did you locate
10 that black bag there.
11 A. I can’t recall the exact time.
12 Q. Did you note it in a report.
13 A. It might be on the bag when it was booked
14 in.
15 Q. Do you have the bag there or -- if it helps
16 refresh your recollection.
17 A. That looks right.
18 Q. Now, having looked at that, do you have a
19 recollection of when you located that bag.
20 A. It says two o’clock in the afternoon.
21 Q. Okay. But the question is, did that refresh
22 your recollection as to approximately when you
23 located it. About two o’clock.
24 A. It’s hard to say. Probably -- I was there
25 from eleven o’clock, starting the search, to 11:30
26 that night, so somewhere between 11:00, I would say,
27 and early afternoon.
28 Q. All right. Do you have Exhibit 294 up 2409
1 there.
2 No, you don’t. It’s here.
3 Do you remember Exhibit 294.
4 May I approach to show him.
5 A. Yes. The paperwork.
6 Q. The paperwork. All right.
7 The paperwork is -- without going into the
8 contents of it, it’s addressed to Michael -- it’s a
9 letter addressed to Michael Jackson, care of a
10 company in Los Angeles; is that correct.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And then it’s also addressed to two other
13 entities of some sort, two other entities.
14 A. Right.
15 Q. So it appears to you, from the letter, that
16 it’s the kind of letter that went out -- or is a
17 letter that went out to three different recipients;
18 is that right.
19 A. Yes. It’s addressed to three different
20 people, it looks like, on the front page.
21 Q. Okay. And there’s no indication by way of a
22 check mark, or a circle, or anything else, as to
23 which copy this was; is that correct.
24 A. No, I don’t believe so.
25 Q. All right. In the exhibit that’s marked
26 Exhibit 565, there’s two videos; is that correct.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Or there are two video cases; is that 2410
1 correct.
2 A. Right.
3 Q. And one of the video cases does not have a
4 video -- I mean, it doesn’t have a CD in it, or
5 whatever, DVD; is that correct.
6 A. That’s correct.
7 Q. There’s no contents is what I’m trying to
8 say.
9 A. It’s an empty case.
10 Q. And you didn’t find that video anywhere in
11 your search, did you.
12 A. I personally did not.
13 Q. That also -- that appears to be a
14 commercially prepared -- or commercially, yeah,
15 prepared video of some sort; is that right.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. And nothing unlawful about owning
18 that video.
19 A. If you’re over 18.
20 Q. If you’re over 18.
21 The other one, entitled “Believe It or Not,”
22 appears to be a Leisure Time Europe video; is that
23 correct.
24 A. I remember the front of it. I don’t know
25 anything about Leisure Time Europe.
26 Q. Okay. And this particular video -- okay.
27 Mr. Zonen is trying to bring me up to date
28 here. 2411
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. He’s reminding me it’s a DVD, not a video.
3 But all right. I suppose it’s a video captured on a
4 DVD, but we could both be right. But I accept that
5 assistance.
6 May I approach the witness, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
9 Q. I’m going to ask you about this. And put on
10 your glasses, if necessary, reading the fine print
11 down there.
12 A. I don’t have my glasses.
13 Q. These won’t help you. Can you see it.
14 A. No.
15 Q. Can’t see it.
16 Do we, by any chance, have a magnifying
17 glass, or does somebody have reading glasses. I
18 have bifocals, and I don’t want to --
19 Are these reading glasses. We’ve got some.
20 We’ll find out how well they work. I should get a
21 waiver on practicing optometry.
22 A. I can read it now. It’s still really small,
23 but I can read it.
24 Q. Okay. Didn’t get any bigger, but you can
25 read it. All right.
26 On that disk, does it say when the disk was
27 released.
28 A. Well, it says July 3 of 1995. 2412
1 Q. No, that’s not when it was released. That’s
2 something to do with the -- it’s not in front of me,
3 but it has something to do with the law.
4 A. I’m still reading.
5 Q. Right down at the very end.
6 A. “Which was produced on 1-22-03 and released
7 on 3-27 of ‘03. Printed in the USA.”
8 Q. All right. To your knowledge, as a co-lead
9 investigator in this case, to your knowledge, no
10 witness has identified either one of those videos or
11 video boxes; is that correct.
12 A. Per name, no.
13 MR. SANGER: Hang on one second.
14 All right. I have no further questions.
15 Oh, wait. Wait one second.
16 Q. One of my colleagues pointed out something.
17 Let me ask you about this. And I may have to
18 approach for this purpose.
19 May I do that, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 Q. BY MR. SANGER: I’m going to show you 294,
22 which again has not been received into evidence.
23 There’s been limited testimony about it. I’ll take
24 these back.
25 A. Okay.
26 Q. What is the date of that letter.
27 A. May 1, 2003.
28 Q. Okay. Thank you. 2413
1 All right. I have no further questions.
2 MR. SNEDDON: No questions.
3 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may
4 step down.
5 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
6 THE COURT: I think I’ll let the jury step
7 out early. I have a couple of things to take up
8 with the attorneys before we take our break, so you
9 get a longer break right now.
10 THE JURY: (In unison) Thank you.
11 THE COURT: But no pizza.
12 THE JURY: (In unison) Ahh.
13
14 (The following proceedings were held in
15 open court outside the presence and hearing of the
16 jury:)
17
18 THE COURT: All right. The jury is out of
19 the room.
20 The first thing I wanted to take up with you
21 is the -- the prosecution has asked for a little
22 more time to respond to the motion -- points and
23 authorities on George Lopez evidence, which I had
24 asked them to have in by today, I think.
25 So I’m not quite sure what -- how much more
26 time did you want.
27 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, is it the case that
28 the Court requests of Mr. Blancarte, who’s the 2414
1 attorney --
2 THE COURT: No, no, I’m not addressing that.
3 They can’t hear you in the back here.
4 I just want to know how much time you need
5 to respond. I know what you said.
6 MR. ZONEN: This is on the issue of Lopez.
7 THE COURT: Get to the microphone.
8 MR. ZONEN: I’m sorry. The answer is a
9 couple days after we received --
10 THE COURT: I don’t know about receiving it.
11 It’s not conditional on that. I’d like you to
12 respond to the points and authorities.
13 MR. ZONEN: Then we can have it within two
14 days.
15 THE COURT: All right. Friday.
16 MR. ZONEN: Yes, Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: All right. I’ll extend that
18 time.
19 MR. SANGER: Is there going to be a date for
20 a hearing on that, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: We’re just going to fit it in.
22 It wasn’t a formal motion. I asked you -- or you
23 volunteered a little more points and authorities,
24 and I’m not treating it as some date. I want to
25 read what you say, and if I want to hear any more
26 from you, I’ll let you know.
27 MR. SANGER: All right.
28 THE COURT: The second thing is the issue of 2415
1 the request by the People to respond -- to have
2 their 1108 hearing. And did you just get that today.
3 MR. MESEREAU: Just got it, yes, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: I’m going to treat this the same
5 way. It’s not a motion, you know. It’s something
6 in abeyance; when are we going to have it; and
7 they’re asking, “Can we have it sooner than later.”
8 And I want to give you a couple of days to
9 respond. How much time do you need.
10 MR. MESEREAU: Let’s see, today’s Wednesday.
11 Could we -- we would certainly need through the end
12 of the week.
13 THE COURT: Through Friday.
14 MR. MESEREAU: Could we -- could we file it
15 Monday, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT: They’re asking to do it next
17 week, so I don’t think that’s right. We could
18 handle it orally. I mean, it’s not a thing that
19 even needs written points and authorities. The
20 question is, when is the right time to hear it.
21 I want to give you a chance to file something.
22 MR. MESEREAU: I appreciate it. Today’s --
23 I guess we could file something Friday, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Okay. Bring it in with you --
25 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.
26 THE COURT: -- when you come in.
27 MR. MESEREAU: As far as the hearing goes,
28 is the Court contemplating a hearing where they 2416
1 simply call witnesses, or do we get a chance, if we
2 choose, to put on our own witnesses to attack their
3 credibility.
4 THE COURT: Well, I said that they definitely
5 have to call witnesses. Then -- and I’m really
6 going to be judging their evidence. But I would
7 consider an offer by you.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. For example, Your
9 Honor, there’s some witnesses --
10 THE COURT: You don’t need to -- I can
11 imagine the example already. You don’t need to go
12 into it.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.
14 THE COURT: I guess the answer is maybe,
15 depending on what I hear and what your offer of
16 proof is then. And let me look at -- in the
17 meantime, I’ll look at the law, if you want to give
18 me anything on that.
19 It is unusual to have opposing evidence at a
20 hearing like that, but I’m not sure it’s not -- I’m
21 not sure that that means that that’s not what we
22 should do.
23 MR. MESEREAU: You could at a hearing, for
24 example, put on witnesses that say, “They told me
25 the opposite,” or “They have a reputation for
26 lying,” that type of thing.
27 THE COURT: I see. I expected you to be
28 talking about credibility issues. 2417
1 MR. MESEREAU: We have one Judge’s order
2 certified from another trial that --
3 THE COURT: This is not the time to argue.
4 But I will take under consideration what you’re
5 suggesting. All right.
6 MR. SANGER: There was one other matter that
7 is still floating - if I could just click my
8 computer once. Thank you - and that was the issue
9 you were going to take up on Thursday, which --
10 THE COURT: That’s the George Lopez.
11 MR. SANGER: No, there was the motions to
12 quash and the remedy, the financial --
13 THE COURT: Oh, yes. Yeah.
14 They can’t hear you in the back.
15 I need the break. I’ve promised the court
16 reporters not to do this.
17 MR. SANGER: Just wanted to remind you,
18 that’s all.
19 (Recess taken.)
20
21 (The following proceedings were held in
22 open court in the presence and hearing of the jury:)
23
24 THE COURT: Call your next witness.
25 MR. SNEDDON: Karen Shepherd.
26 THE COURT: Come forward, please.
27 When you get to the witness stand, remain
28 standing, raise your right hand and face the clerk. 2418
1 KAREN SHEPHERD
2 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
3
4 THE WITNESS: I do.
5 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
6 spell your name for the record.
7 THE WITNESS: Karen Shepherd, S-h-e-p-h-e-r-d.
8 THE CLERK: Thank you.
9
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. SNEDDON:
12 Q. Okay. Scoot up close to that thing so we
13 can all hear what you have to say. Thank you.
14 You’re employed by the Santa Barbara
15 Sheriff’s Department.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And how long have you been with the
18 department.
19 A. For approximately seven and a half years.
20 Q. And did you have any law enforcement
21 experience before that.
22 A. No.
23 Q. And what is your current assignment.
24 A. My current assignment is I’m a detective
25 with the Special Operations Division. That started
26 just this Monday. Before that, I was assigned to
27 the Criminal Investigations Division.
28 Q. And in connection with those responsibilities, 2419
1 were you assigned to perform some search
2 responsibilities in connection with a search
3 warrant executed on Neverland Valley Ranch on
4 November the 18th of 2003.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And specifically, do you recall about what
7 time you got there.
8 A. It was early in the morning before the sun
9 was out. We had a briefing in the Solvang area.
10 Q. Okay. And you eventually went to the ranch.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. What responsibilities were you assigned at
13 the ranch.
14 A. I was first assigned to search the main
15 house, the master bedroom and master bathroom area.
16 Q. And do you recall about what time it was
17 that you started those responsibilities.
18 A. I believe -- I don’t know the exact time. I
19 can estimate maybe 10:00 a.m. is when we started.
20 Q. Now, in the course of your working and doing
21 this search, what area were you searching.
22 A. I focused most of my searching in the master
23 bathroom area.
24 Q. Now, during the course of the time that you
25 were there, did you seize some items for evidence.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. And when you seized an item or items, what
28 was the process you used in order to have them 2420
1 booked into evidence.
2 A. If I found an item that I thought was of
3 interest, I would tell either the investigating
4 officer or someone who was in charge. I would take
5 the evidence, if it was something that they wanted,
6 and I gave it to Detective Padilla, who was in
7 charge of seizing and packaging the evidence.
8 Q. And in some cases were the items
9 photographed in their location.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. All right. Now, I’m going to show you some
12 photographs and ask you some questions about those
13 photographs.
14 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
15 table.)
16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Do you
17 recognize the photograph, People’s 59. It’s 59, is
18 it not --
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. -- for identification that I placed in front
21 of you.
22 A. Yes, I do recognize it.
23 Q. And does it accurately depict the area that
24 it purports to represent.
25 A. Yes.
26 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Move that it be
27 admitted into evidence, Your Honor.
28 THE COURT: It’s admitted. 2421
1 THE WITNESS: I’m going to need it.
2 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, you are.
3 Okay. Now, before we get to the overhead, I
4 want to ask you a couple of other questions.
5 I have a package that’s been marked, Your
6 Honor, as People’s 569 for identification purposes.
7 It’s a brown bag; has Item No. 301 at the top, and
8 inside the bag are five DVDs. I’m withdrawing them
9 from the bag, showing them to counsel, and they’re
10 marked 570 through 574 respectively.
11 Q. Detective Shepherd, I’ve handed you the
12 exhibit that’s been marked as 569, which is the
13 brown bag, and the five DVDs that are marked 70
14 through 74 respectively. Would you take the DVDs
15 out of the bag and examine them, please.
16 Do you recognize those.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And do you recall where they were the first
19 time that you saw them.
20 A. Yes. They were on top of the television.
21 There’s a television that’s alongside the Jacuzzi
22 tub and they were stacked on top of the television.
23 Q. And did you seize those items.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you arrange to have them booked into
26 evidence.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And are those items in the same condition 2422
1 now as they were when you seized them.
2 A. Yes.
3 MR. SNEDDON: Move that they be admitted
4 into evidence, Your Honor; 69 through 74.
5 THE COURT: They’re admitted.
6 MR. SNEDDON: Now I’m going to put the
7 overhead on for just a second.
8 Q. Okay. This is the photograph that you have
9 just identified moments ago as People’s 59, which is
10 now in evidence. Do you recognize that.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. All right. I had you pick up a little laser
13 pointer. And could you indicate to the ladies and
14 gentlemen of the jury the location of the Items
15 570 through 574 at the time that you first saw them.
16 A. Right there on top of the T.V.
17 Q. Right on top of the T.V., okay.
18 Now, at the time that you were out there
19 that day, did you take any other items of evidence.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What else did you take.
22 A. Can I use the laser pointer.
23 Q. Sure. Absolutely. That’s what I want you
24 to do.
25 A. Okay. There was a magazine that contained
26 adult material that I found within this stack of
27 books and magazines. There was another magazine
28 containing adult material which was inside of this 2423
1 metal briefcase. And I also found three books in
2 this plastic bag that contained adult material.
3 Q. Okay. Now, we’re going to talk about those
4 in a little bit more detail now, but I think we can
5 turn the lights back on.
6 Okay. I’ve handed you back the photograph
7 that the jury just saw that was up on the board,
8 People’s 59. What I want you to do, there’s a black
9 pen right in front of you there, and I’m going to
10 ask you to take the exhibit, People’s 59, and I want
11 you to draw a little circle around the area where
12 you found the DVDs that are in People’s 570 through
13 574, and right from the circle put a little line,
14 “570 through 574.”
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. And would you put your initials by that,
17 please.
18 And what did you put.
19 A. “KKS.”
20 Q. “KKS”.
21 A. Uh-huh.
22 Q. Okay.
23 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
24 table.)
25 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. I think we’re ready to
26 go now.
27 Q. All right. We have a brown paper bag which
28 has been marked as People’s 576 for identification 2424
1 purposes, okay. I want to ask you to take a look at
2 that bag, and then I’m going to ask you some
3 questions about it and the contents.
4 All right. Do you recognize the items that
5 were contained in the bag, 576.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And when and where were those items the
8 first time that you saw them.
9 A. They were inside the plastic bag near the
10 bookcase.
11 Q. And were you the one responsible for taking
12 those and placing them into evidence, having them
13 booked.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, with regard to the item -- the items
16 that you took out are what, three books.
17 A. Three books, yes.
18 Q. And those books have individual numbers; is
19 that correct.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And with regard to Item No. 577, do you see
22 that.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. Now, in front of you are some
25 photographs. Can you mate up the photograph with
26 the -- I believe it’s 297.
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. Is that correct. 2425
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is that photograph an accurate depiction of
3 a book that you seized, which is marked as 577.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. Let’s go to the next one, 578.
6 Do you have that in front of you.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. That’s one of the books you seized, correct.
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And with regard to 578, there’s a
11 photograph, 296.
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Is that photograph, 296, an accurate
14 depiction of the book that you seized, 578.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And with regard to the next item, which is
17 579 --
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. -- do you see that.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And 579, there’s a photograph marked as 631.
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the front
24 cover of the Item 579.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. All right. Now, with regard to the Items
27 577, 78 and 79, these are the items that you seized
28 and then had booked into evidence; is that correct. 2426
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And are they in the same condition now as
3 they were at the time you seized them and had them
4 booked.
5 A. Yes.
6 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I move 576 through
7 579 be admitted into evidence.
8 THE COURT: All right. They’re admitted.
9 MR. SNEDDON: And I request that photograph
10 297, 296 and 631 be admitted into evidence.
11 THE COURT: They’re admitted.
12 MR. SNEDDON: Mr. Zonen thinks I neglected
13 578. If I did, I’m sorry. It should be 576, 77,
14 78, 79.
15 THE COURT: That’s what I thought you had
16 requested admission of. I admitted those.
17 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.
18 Q. With regard to the exhibits, 577 through 79,
19 you have the photograph in front of you, People’s
20 59.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And could you indicate to the ladies and
23 gentlemen of the jury, by placing on that exhibit,
24 the location of the area, the approximate location
25 of where you seized the Items 577, 578 and 579.
26 A. With a black marker.
27 Q. Please. If you would.
28 A. Okay. 2427
Subject: March 16, 2005 
Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:28 am
