1 A. That’s correct, a one-minute call.
2 Q. And immediately after that, was there a
3 seven-minute call placed by the Frank Cascio phone
4 to Neverland Valley Ranch?
5 A. Correct, at 1313 hours for seven minutes.
6 Q. After that phone call, was there a call
7 placed from the Frank Cascio phone to the firm
8 Geragos & Geragos?
9 A. Correct. At 1333 hours.
10 Q. And after the phone call to Geragos &
11 Geragos, was there a call between Frank Cascio’s
12 phone and the home of defendant Jackson’s personal
13 assistant, Evelyn Tavasci?
14 A. Correct, at 1343 hours.
15 Q. How long was that call?
16 A. One minute in length.
17 Q. Was there another call placed exactly one
18 minute after that?
19 A. Correct. At 1344 for three minutes.
20 Q. To the home of Evelyn Tavasci?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. After that three-minute phone call, was
23 there a call between the Frank Cascio phone and the
24 Marc Schaffel phone?
25 A. Which call were you interested in?
26 Q. 1348 hours.
27 A. That’s correct, for two minutes 11 seconds.
28 Q. So the call at 1344 to the home of Evelyn 8362
1 Tavasci from the Cascio phone lasted three minutes,
2 and then the next call from the Cascio phone was to
3 the Schaffel phone at 1338, which lasted for two
4 minutes, correct?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. With respect to the link between the Evelyn
7 Tavasci home number and the phone registered to
8 Mr. Moslehi, did that occur at 2:11 in the
9 afternoon, 1411?
10 A. Correct. 2:11 for one minute.
11 Q. Were there additional phone calls between
12 the Frank Cascio phone and the Geragos & Geragos
13 phone? Specifically at 1527 and 1542 in the
14 afternoon.
15 A. That’s correct. The first at 1527 was a
16 55-second incoming call. The second at 1542 was a
17 five-minute 54-second call.
18 Q. And in between those two calls to the
19 Geragos phones from the Cascio phone, was there a
20 call by the Cascio phone to the Marc Schaffel phone
21 at 1540?
22 A. That’s correct. I have a one-minute call
23 between the Cascio phone and the Schaffel phone.
24 Q. Was there a call placed from a Schaffel
25 phone to the phone of David LeGrand at 1547 hours?
26 A. That’s correct. Three minutes in length.
27 Q. And at 1727 hours, is that the next phone
28 call between the Cascio phones and the Schaffel 8363
1 phones?
2 A. That’s correct.
3 Q. Did that last for seven minutes?
4 A. Yes, that was seven minutes in length.
5 Q. And shortly after that phone call at 1742,
6 was there an incoming call from the second home line
7 of Mr. Jackson’s personal assistant to the phone
8 registered to Frank Cascio?
9 A. That is correct. For one minute and ten
10 seconds.
11 Q. Are there additional phone calls between Ann
12 Kite -- between the Ann Kite phone and the Marc
13 Schaffel phone in the evening, approximately 8:24?
14 A. 6:24 p.m.
15 Q. Okay. How long did that call last?
16 A. Four minutes in length.
17 Q. Now, with respect to the 19 calls between
18 the Cascio phone and the Amen phone, and the 38
19 calls between the Cascio phone and the Schaffel
20 phone, did one group of phone calls occur before,
21 after, or interspersed with the others?
22 A. They were interspersed.
23 Q. Throughout the entire day?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. If you could turn your attention to the
26 phone call between the Christian Robinson phone and
27 the Moslehi phone. If you could find that.
28 A. I have it. 8364
1 Q. Which direction was that phone call in?
2 A. Christian Robinson contacting Hamid
3 Moslehi’s phone.
4 Q. Okay. With respect to the phone calls in
5 the upper right-hand corner between Janet’s parents’
6 phone and the phone registered to Azia Pryor, was
7 there a call placed at approximately eight o’clock
8 at night, 2000 hours?
9 A. Correct. At 8:06 p.m. for a little over one
10 minute.
11 Q. One minute, or one hour 33 minutes?
12 A. I’m sorry. One hour 33 minutes.
13 Q. Okay. Do you know which direction that call
14 went?
15 A. That call was from the Venturas’ residence
16 to Azia Pryor’s phone.
17 Q. Okay. If you could turn your attention to
18 Exhibit -- 863 or 864, which one’s next?
19 A. 864.
20 MR. SANGER: What’s that, 2-13?
21 MR. NICOLA: That’s 2-13, Counsel.
22 Q. Without trying to indoctrinate, could you
23 explain for the jury what’s on that?
24 A. Again, we have telephone numbers that are
25 associated with the various individuals. I believe
26 all of these we’ve already spoke of. Hamid Moslehi,
27 Christian Robinson, Vincent Amen, Evelyn Tavasci,
28 David Ventura, Janet’s parents, Frank Cascio, 8365
1 Neverland Valley Ranch, Azia Pryor, Marc Schaffel,
2 Ann Kite, the law offices of Geragos & Geragos, and
3 Deborah Rowe Jackson.
4 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me.
5 MR. NICOLA: Bless you.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.
7 Q. BY MR. NICOLA: If we could go to the bottom
8 right-hand corner specifically with respect to the
9 phone calls between the Ann Kite phone and the
10 Geragos & Geragos phone, how many were there?
11 Because we can’t quite see it.
12 A. Four.
13 Q. And in which direction?
14 A. All four calls were from Ann Kite to the law
15 offices of Geragos & Geragos.
16 Q. Is that five calls between the Ann Kite
17 phone and the Schaffel phone?
18 A. That’s correct.
19 Q. With respect to the four calls between the
20 Ann Kite phone and the Geragos & Geragos phone, what
21 was the shortest call?
22 A. One minute in length.
23 Q. And there were two of those?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Was there also a six-minute call and a
26 two-minute call respectively?
27 A. Correct. At 10:05 and 3:48 p.m.
28 Q. Okay. So at 10:05 a.m., there is a 8366
1 one-minute call between the Ann Kite phone and the
2 Geragos & Geragos phone, correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Also at 10:05 a.m. is another one-minute
5 call between the Ann Kite phone and the Geragos &
6 Geragos phone?
7 A. That’s correct.
8 Q. And also at 10:05 a.m., there’s a six-minute
9 call between the Ann Kite phone and the Geragos &
10 Geragos phone?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Okay. And the last call between the Ann
13 Kite phone and the Geragos & Geragos phone?
14 A. Was at 3:48 p.m. for two minutes.
15 Q. Okay. And in between the time interval that
16 you’ve just testified about, how many times did Ms.
17 Kite’s phone contact the Schaffel phones?
18 A. Two times.
19 Q. Is one of those times at 10:11 in the
20 morning?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. That was immediately after the 10:05 call to
23 the Geragos & Geragos firm?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. How long did that 10:11 call to the Schaffel
26 phone last?
27 A. 11 minutes. Correction. 17 minutes.
28 Q. Was there another call at 11:30 to the 8367
1 Schaffel phone?
2 A. That’s correct. For 13 minutes.
3 Q. Okay. Was there a call at 7:06 a.m. between
4 the Ann Kite phone and the Marc Schaffel phone?
5 A. Correct. One minute in length.
6 Q. And immediately after that call, was there a
7 call between the Schaffel phone and Neverland Valley
8 Ranch?
9 A. There was also a call at 7:06 from Schaffel
10 to Neverland Valley Ranch for 17 minutes in length.
11 Q. After the call to Neverland Valley Ranch,
12 was there a call between the Marc Schaffel phone
13 going from the Marc Schaffel phone to the Ann Kite
14 phone?
15 A. Correct. At 0759 for 15 minutes.
16 Q. Do your records show a phone call between
17 the Frank Cascio phone and the David Ventura
18 phones -- phone?
19 A. That’s correct. I have outgoing calls from
20 the Ventura to the Cascio phone.
21 Q. And what time are those two calls?
22 A. Two calls. The first one at 11:35 p.m. for
23 four minutes. Second one at 11:43 p.m. for three
24 minutes.
25 Q. Immediately preceding those two outgoing
26 calls from the Ventura phones to the Cascio phones,
27 were there a number of phone calls from the Ventura
28 line to the Azia Pryor line? 8368
1 A. I have three calls from the Ventura line to
2 the Azia Pryor line. The first one at 5:47 p.m. for
3 nine minutes. The second one at 6:37 p.m. for 14
4 minutes. And the last one at 7:21 p.m. for two
5 minutes.
6 Q. If you could turn your attention to the
7 calls surrounding Frank Cascio’s phone. With
8 respect to the one call going between the Frank
9 Cascio phone and the Evelyn Tavasci phone, what time
10 did that occur, please?
11 A. That occurred at 5:37 p.m., four minutes in
12 length.
13 Q. With respect to the 12 calls between the
14 Amen phone and the Cascio phone, can you tell us
15 generally what time of day those 12 calls occurred?
16 A. With the exception of one call, they
17 occurred in the afternoon to evening time frame.
18 Q. And was that first call the exception, at
19 054 in the morning?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And how long did that last?
22 A. Four minutes.
23 Q. And which direction was that going?
24 A. Frank Cascio calling Vincent Amen.
25 Q. Immediately prior to that was a one-minute
26 call between the Frank Cascio phone and the Marc
27 Schaffel phone at 052 in the morning?
28 A. That’s correct. One minute in length. 8369
1 Q. Sergeant Bonner, if you could turn to
2 Exhibit 865, please. Could you please explain the
3 chart for February 14th of 2003, Exibit 865.
4 A. Again, as with the other ones, we have a
5 number of telephone numbers that are associated with
6 individuals that have came out during this
7 investigation. And we start with Vincent Amen,
8 Hamid Moslehi, David LeGrand, Frank Cascio, Marc
9 Schaffel, Christian Robinson, Ann Kite, the Law
10 Offices of Geragos & Geragos, Evelyn Tavasci, David
11 Ventura, and Azia Pryor.
12 Q. If you could begin in the center with the
13 Moslehi, Schaffel and Christian Robinson phones, can
14 you tell us first which direction the call from --
15 in between Moslehi and Schaffel occurred, between
16 their phones?
17 A. The Marc Schaffel phone contacted the Hamid
18 Moslehi phone for one minute in length at 8:42 p.m.
19 Q. What about the contact between the Christian
20 Robinson phone and the Marc Schaffel phone?
21 A. That was a call from the Christian Robinson
22 phone to the Marc Schaffel phone, one minute in
23 length, at 10:18 p.m.
24 Q. And in between the call from the Schaffel
25 phone to the Moslehi phone, and the Christian
26 Robinson phone and the Schaffel phone, were there
27 two calls placed to Frank Cascio, one from the
28 Ventura phone at 2105 hours? 8370
1 A. I have a phone call from the David Ventura
2 residence to a Frank Cascio phone at 2105 hours, two
3 minutes in length.
4 Q. And at 2130 hours, 9:30 p.m., was there a
5 call between the Vince Amen phone and a Frank Cascio
6 phone?
7 A. That’s correct. 2130 hours, one minute in
8 length.
9 Q. It’s not clear on the chart, from here
10 anyway, but how many times was there contact between
11 the Cascio phone and the Ventura phone, Janet’s
12 parents?
13 A. There were four calls.
14 Q. Can you tell us what time the first call was
15 made on Valentine’s Day 2003?
16 A. The first call I have is from the Ventura
17 residence to a Cascio phone at 4:45 p.m., one minute
18 in length.
19 Q. Okay. When was the next call, please?
20 A. The next call occurred at 7:29 p.m. This
21 one was from the Cascio phone to the Venturas’
22 residence, two minutes in length.
23 Q. And the next one, please?
24 A. Was at 7:45 p.m., again from the Cascio
25 phone to the Ventura residence, for 59 seconds.
26 Q. Is the next one the call that occurs at
27 2105, 9:05 p.m., between the Ventura residence and
28 the Cascio phone? 8371
1 A. That’s correct. Two minutes in length.
2 Q. Okay. Are there also a number of calls
3 between the Ventura phone and the Azia Pryor phone?
4 A. Yes, there are.
5 Q. And are they going in one direction or both
6 directions, generally?
7 A. They’re going in both directions.
8 Q. And what time is the first call between
9 those two phones, please?
10 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, I’m going to object
11 at this point. I’ve been waiting, but it does seem
12 that this is cumulative, and the relevance in these
13 details -- I’ll object on relevance.
14 THE COURT: Overruled.
15 THE WITNESS: The first call occurred at
16 2:20 p.m., one minute in length, from the Ventura
17 residence to the Azia Pryor telephone.
18 Q. BY MR. NICOLA: Do you have an entry there
19 marked 1250 in the morning?
20 A. I’m sorry, that’s correct. That’s the first
21 one. 1250, one minute 30 seconds in length, from
22 Azia Pryor’s phone to the Ventura residence.
23 Q. One minute 30 seconds?
24 A. I’m sorry, one hour 30 minutes. They’re
25 numbers.
26 Q. You bill like phone companies, in reverse.
27 And when was the last call between the
28 Ventura phones and the Azia Pryor phones for the 8372
1 14th?
2 A. The last call I have is at 11:40 p.m. for
3 two minutes in length from the Ventura phone to the
4 Azia Pryor phone.
5 Q. Okay. And in total, there was contact
6 between the LeGrand phone and the Kite phone just
7 one time?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And two times between the Kite phone and the
10 Geragos & Geragos phones that day?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. If you could please continue to Exhibit 866,
13 the chart for February 15th. And please explain
14 this exhibit for the jury, please.
15 A. It’s a little off center.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. Okay. Again, we have a number of
18 individuals who we have identified as being
19 associated with this investigation, and these are
20 telephones that are associated with those
21 individuals: Hamid Moslehi, Rudy Provencio, Vincent
22 Amen, Marc Schaffel, Frank Cascio, Neverland Valley
23 Ranch, Ann Kite, Law Offices of Geragos & Geragos,
24 Evelyn Tavasci, Jay Jackson, a second line into
25 Evelyn Tavasci’s residence, David Ventura and Azia
26 Pryor.
27 Q. Was the first call between the Cascio phone
28 and the Jay Jackson phone at 2:11 in the morning? 8373
1 Look on page two, four up from the bottom.
2 A. The David Ventura phone.
3 Q. Oh, I’m sorry. Was that the first of five
4 calls to the David Ventura phone at 2:11 in the
5 morning?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. And can you tell us when the first call was
8 between the Cascio phone and the Jackson phone that
9 morning, that day?
10 A. The first call I show is at 10:17 a.m. from
11 the Jay Jackson phone to the Cascio phone.
12 Q. Of the 14 calls between the Jay Jackson
13 phone and the Frank Cascio phone, how many of them
14 lasted more than one minute?
15 A. 11 of them.
16 Q. Was there a call between the Frank Cascio
17 phone and the Geragos & Geragos phone that day as
18 well?
19 A. Yes, there was.
20 Q. And what time was that?
21 A. That occurred at 2:45 p.m., for 44 seconds,
22 from Cascio to Geragos phones.
23 Q. And prior to that phone contact between the
24 Cascio phone and the Geragos & Geragos phone, was
25 there a 15-minute phone call beginning at 1424 hours
26 between the Cascio phone and the Jay Jackson phone?
27 A. That’s correct.
28 Q. And immediately after the phone call between 8374
1 the Cascio phone to the Geragos & Geragos phone,
2 were there two more calls placed between the Cascio
3 phone and the Jackson phone?
4 A. Correct. At 1501 and 1502, first one for
5 one minute and the second one for three minutes.
6 Q. And at the end of the three-minute call at
7 1502 between the Cascio phone and the Jackson phone,
8 was there a call between Frank Cascio’s phone and
9 Marc Schaffel’s phone?
10 A. That’s correct, at 1505 hours for three
11 minutes.
12 Q. Of the three calls between the Cascio phone
13 and the Tavasci home phone, can you tell us what
14 time the first call was?
15 A. The first call occurred at 5:45 p.m., six
16 minutes in length.
17 Q. And which direction was that call going?
18 A. That was from Cascio to the Tavasci phone.
19 Q. At that same time, at 5:45 p.m., was there a
20 call from the Vince Amen phone to the same Frank
21 Cascio phone that dialed the Evvy Tavasci home
22 phone?
23 A. That’s correct. It was seven minutes in
24 length from Amen to Cascio.
25 Q. And at the same time, the Cascio phone
26 called the Tavasci home?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. And that was for six minutes? 8375
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Is that what’s known as a three-way call,
3 Sergeant?
4 A. It is potentially a three-way call.
5 Q. Immediately after that call between the
6 Amen/Cascio, Cascio/Tavasci phones, was there a call
7 placed from the Cascio phone to the Schaffel phone?
8 A. That’s correct. I have a two-minute call at
9 1755 hours from the Cascio phone to a Schaffel
10 phone.
11 Q. Okay. And then were there two calls after
12 that between the Cascio phone and one of the Evelyn
13 Tavasci home phone numbers and the Cascio phone and
14 the other Tavasci home number, the second line, at
15 1825 and 1843 hours?
16 A. That’s correct. I have the first call at
17 1825 hours for three minutes and 33 -- correction,
18 three minutes and 36 seconds, and that is from the
19 Cascio phone to the Tavasci, Evelyn, home phone.
20 And the second call is at 1843 hours, one
21 minute 47 seconds in length, and that goes from the
22 Cascio to the Evelyn Tavasci second home line.
23 Q. At 1851 hours, was there a phone call
24 between the Cascio phone and the Jay Jackson phone?
25 A. That’s correct. Two minutes in length.
26 Q. This would be the call immediately after the
27 call from Cascio’s line to the second home line at
28 Evvy Tavasci’s? 8376
1 A. A few minutes later, correct.
2 Q. Okay. And that was a two-minute call?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. At the end of that phone call at 1853 was
5 there another call placed from the Cascio line to
6 the same Jay Jackson line?
7 A. That’s correct. We have a call at 1853, for
8 17 minutes in length.
9 Q. And at the end of that call, at 1910 hours,
10 was there another call placed from the Frank Cascio
11 phone to the Jay Jackson phone?
12 A. Correct. Three minutes 19 seconds in
13 length.
14 Q. And immediately after that call, was there --
15 excuse me. Were there two calls placed from the
16 Frank Cascio phone to the Frank Schaffel phone?
17 A. Okay. Yes, we have one at 7:14 p.m., one
18 minute in length. And another one at 7:16 p.m.,
19 four minutes in length.
20 Q. After the phone call at 7:16 p.m. between
21 the Cascio phone and the Schaffel phone, did the
22 phone belonging to Jay Jackson connect with a phone
23 belonging to Frank Cascio, in that direction?
24 A. That’s correct. At 8:43 p.m. for four
25 minutes 15 seconds.
26 Q. Was there another call between the same two
27 phones and in the same direction at 8:48 p.m. that
28 lasted for two minutes? 8377
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And immediately after that phone call at
3 8:48, was there a call between the Frank Cascio
4 phone and the Evvy Tavasci home phone?
5 A. That’s correct, at 8:56 p.m., two minutes 28
6 seconds in length.
7 Q. Was there a call approximately ten minutes
8 later from the Cascio phone to the Amen phone at
9 2108?
10 A. Correct. Six minutes in length.
11 Q. At the end of that six-minute call, was
12 there a call between the Cascio phone and the
13 Neverland Valley Ranch phone?
14 A. That’s correct. 2126 hours. That’s an
15 incoming call from Neverland Valley to the Cascio
16 phone, three minutes 41 seconds in length.
17 Q. If you could turn to Exhibit 867, please.
18 And is that the chart for Sunday, February 16th, of
19 2003?
20 A. That’s correct.
21 Q. If you could explain to the jury what’s
22 depicted in this exhibit, please.
23 A. Once more, we have a number of telephones
24 that are associated with individuals that have came
25 up during this investigation; namely, starting on
26 the left, Chris Tucker, Vincent Amen, Rudy
27 Provencio, Evelyn Tavasci, Azia Pryor, Neverland
28 Valley Ranch, Marc Schaffel, Chris Carter, David 8378
1 Ventura, Jay Jackson, Frank Cascio, another call
2 from Marc Schaffel, and Christian Robinson as Site
3 LLC.
4 Q. With respect to the calls between the Cascio
5 phone and the Jay Jackson phone, the chart shows a
6 “2” over a “1.” Were there 21 calls between the
7 two, or what?
8 A. No, there was not. That should indicate
9 that there were two calls from one direction and one
10 call from the other direction.
11 Q. Which direction were the two calls from?
12 A. From Jay Jackson to Frank Cascio. And one
13 call from Frank Cascio to Jay Jackson.
14 Q. Okay. Can you tell us the time of the first
15 call between Jay Jackson and the Frank Cascio phone?
16 A. The first call occurred at 4:32 p.m., four
17 minutes in length, from Jay Jackson to Frank Cascio
18 telephones.
19 Q. And when was the last call between the two
20 phones?
21 A. At 11:26 p.m., two minutes 30 seconds in
22 length, from the Frank Cascio phone to Jay Jackson
23 phone.
24 Q. In between the first and last calls between
25 the Jay Jackson phone and the Cascio phone, was
26 there contact between the Cascio phone and the
27 Neverland Valley Ranch phone?
28 A. The only call I’m showing was at 0100 hours. 8379
1 Q. So there was not?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. When was the first call between the Vince
4 Amen phone and the Frank Cascio phone?
5 A. 0844 hours, or 8:44 a.m.
6 Q. If you could turn to Exhibit 871, I believe.
7 Is that the chart for February 20th?
8 A. That’s correct.
9 Q. Is it Detective Zelis who will have all the
10 fun with the charts on the 17th, 18th and 19th?
11 A. That’s correct.
12 Q. I placed Exhibit 871, or a reasonable
13 likeness, up on the board. Do you know whether this
14 date, February 20th, coincided with the filming of a
15 rebuttal video?
16 A. That is my understanding, correct.
17 Q. Okay. And explain to the jury, please,
18 what’s depicted in this exhibit.
19 A. Again, we have icons which are associated
20 with telephones registered to individuals that have
21 came up during this investigation. Starting at the
22 top left, we have Frank Cascio, Marc Schaffel, David
23 Ventura, Jay Jackson, Evelyn Tavasci second line,
24 Evelyn Tavasci’s home line, Neverland Valley Ranch,
25 Vincent Amen, the Turnberry Isle Resort, Christopher
26 Carter and Rudy Provencio.
27 Q. If you could begin, please, with the phone
28 calls between the Vincent Amen line and the Jay 8380
1 Jackson line, tell us what time the first call was
2 placed.
3 A. The first call occurred at 10:02 a.m., two
4 minutes in length, from Amen to Jackson.
5 Q. Would you look at the time stamp, 9:51 on
6 your chart, please?
7 A. I’m sorry, they’re out of order. 9:51 would
8 be the first call.
9 Q. And the second call would be at 10:02 a.m.?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. How many times did the Vince Amen phone
12 contact the Marc Schaffel phone that day?
13 A. I have five calls.
14 Q. And was the first call placed at nearly one
15 o’clock in the morning or just before one o’clock in
16 the morning?
17 A. Five minutes prior, at 0055 hours.
18 Q. And how many times was there contact between
19 the Vince Amen phone and the Frank Cascio phone that
20 day? You could refer to the chart itself if it
21 helps you.
22 A. I’m just double-checking. I have 31 calls.
23 Q. Was the first call a call that was placed
24 between Frank Cascio’s phone and Vince Amen’s phone
25 at 1:25 in the morning?
26 A. That’s correct.
27 Q. And how many times was there contact between
28 the Cascio phone and the Schaffel phone on the 8381
1 morning -- on the day of the 20th?
2 A. I have 11 calls. And I have two -- two
3 more, so a total of 13.
4 Q. Of the two calls between the Cascio phone
5 and the Evvy Tavasci home phone, can you tell us
6 whether they were going in one direction or both
7 ways?
8 A. It appears they were going just from Cascio
9 to Evelyn Tavasci.
10 Q. From the Cascio phone to the Tavasci phone?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. And what time is the first call from the
13 Cascio phone to the Tavasci phone?
14 A. At 1:26 p.m., three minutes in length.
15 Q. If you would please turn to the next exhibit
16 that you have, which is No. 875 -- actually, before
17 we leave 871, the chart shows seven calls between
18 Neverland Valley Ranch and Frank Cascio’s number; is
19 that correct?
20 A. That’s correct.
21 Q. And what time did those calls begin and in
22 which direction were they going, please?
23 A. I believe each of these calls was an
24 incoming call. I’m sorry, they’re going both
25 directions. And they start at a little after 2 p.m.
26 and end a little after 9 p.m.
27 Q. Okay. Now you can turn to Exhibit 875,
28 please. 8382
1 MR. SANGER: Is that March 5?
2 MR. NICOLA: It’s March 2.
3 THE WITNESS: March 5th.
4 MR. SANGER: March 5 is what mine says.
5 Q. BY MR. NICOLA: Is there an exhibit tag on
6 March 2nd?
7 A. Yeah. It’s not mine, though.
8 Q. Okay. I’m sorry. 875 is March 5th. And
9 who’s doing March 2nd, 3rd and 4th?
10 A. Chief Investigator Dave Saunders.
11 Q. I’m sorry. Is this a chart for Wednesday,
12 March 5th?
13 A. It is.
14 Q. Okay. Explain to the jury what’s on this
15 exhibit, please.
16 A. Okay. Again, we have a number of icons that
17 are associated with telephones that are registered
18 to individuals that have came up during this
19 investigation. Starting on the left, we have Frank
20 Cascio, Neverland Valley Ranch, Evelyn Tavasci/MJJ
21 Productions, another number, MJJ Productions/Miko
22 Brando, Evelyn Tavasci home, Rudy Provencio, Paul
23 Hugo and David LeGrand.
24 Q. Let’s talk about the Frank Cascio phone and
25 the Neverland Valley Ranch phone. Can you tell us
26 when they first -- when they first begin and which
27 direction they went?
28 A. They first started at shortly before 2 a.m. 8383
1 in the morning, which was an incoming call from
2 Neverland to Frank Cascio, and it ended at 6:15
3 p.m., again with an incoming call from Neverland to
4 Frank Cascio. In between that we had two calls from
5 Cascio to Neverland.
6 Q. Okay. Can you tell us what time the call
7 between the Paul Hugo phone and the Rudy Provencio
8 phone was?
9 A. Okay. That was at 2109 hours for one minute
10 in length.
11 Q. And also between the Paul Hugo phone and the
12 David LeGrand phone, please?
13 A. That was 2134 hours, or 9:34 p.m., for two
14 minutes in length.
15 Q. Okay. If you could move to Exhibit No. 876,
16 please. And if you could explain to the jury what’s
17 on this exhibit?
18 A. Okay. As with the other exhibits, we have a
19 number of telephones associated with individuals
20 and/or locations that have came up during this
21 investigation. I’ll start on the left. We have
22 Paul Hugo, Marc Schaffel and Vincent Amen. We have
23 Frank Cascio, Neverland Valley Ranch. This was a
24 room at the Beverly Hilton that was registered under
25 Christopher Carter. We have the MJJ
26 Productions/Miko Brando phone, Evelyn Tavasci/MJJ
27 Productions phone, Evelyn Tavasci second home line,
28 and the Evelyn Tavasci home line. 8384
1 Q. Could you turn to the exhibit book on your
2 right, please, and find Exhibit No. 255? Are those
3 The Beverly Hilton records?
4 A. These are.
5 Q. Okay. Exhibit 255, is that the room bill
6 for Chris Carter, Room 429, from The Beverly Hilton?
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. Okay. Did the phone charge -- do the phone
9 charges on The Beverly Hilton records include
10 minutes?
11 A. I don’t immediately recognize anything as
12 being specific to length of call.
13 Q. And indeed, there are no minutes on your
14 chart for The Beverly Hilton calls, correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Do you show three calls going from The
17 Beverly Hilton out of the Chris Carter room on the
18 6th to Ms. Evelyn Tavasci’s home or second home
19 numbers?
20 A. That’s correct.
21 Q. And what time is the first call?
22 A. I have two calls that occur at 1136 hours.
23 One to the home line; the second one to the second
24 home line.
25 Q. Okay. Can you remove the page you’re
26 looking at in Exhibit 255?
27 MR. SANGER: Which one?
28 MR. NICOLA: March 5. 8385
1 Q. Showing you page one of Exhibit 255, just
2 generally the time stamp in the middle column on the
3 left, for example, eleven-three -- 11:36, that’s the
4 time that corresponds to the call in your charts,
5 correct?
6 A. That’s correct.
7 Q. And there’s nothing on the right that
8 indicates the length of the time; isn’t that right?
9 A. I don’t recognize anything as being a
10 length.
11 Q. Can you tell us at approximately what time
12 the call between the -- between the Hugo phone and
13 the Schaffel phone was, please?
14 A. 15 -- or 3:59 p.m.
15 Q. How long did that call last?
16 A. Two minutes in length.
17 Q. And can you tell us what time the calls
18 between the Amen phone and the Schaffel phone were?
19 A. At 12:21 p.m. and 12:17 p.m., four minutes
20 and three minutes respectively.
21 Q. And your records show the only place of
22 relevance to your investigation that the Cascio
23 phone called was the Neverland Valley Ranch line?
24 A. That’s correct.
25 Q. If you could move on to Exhibit 877, please.
26 And is 877 the chart for Friday, the 7th of March,
27 2003?
28 A. That’s correct. 8386
1 Q. Again, the only calls from Frank Cascio that
2 you registered were to Neverland Valley Ranch?
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. Can you tell us what time the first call was
5 and what time the last one was?
6 A. The first call occurred five minutes after
7 midnight, at 0005 hours, and the last call occurred
8 at 12:03 p.m.
9 Q. Sergeant Bonner, can you tell us about the
10 middle icon, The Beverly Hilton Kenneth Morgan room?
11 A. As with the Chris Carter room on the
12 previous day, this was a room at The Beverly Hilton
13 which was registered under the name Kenneth Morgan.
14 Q. And in which exhibit did you find the
15 Kenneth Morgan phone records from The Beverly
16 Hilton?
17 A. It was under Exhibit 256.
18 Q. Would you find those in the exhibit book,
19 please?
20 A. Done.
21 Q. Done. When was the first call made from
22 that room and to what number?
23 A. The first call occurred on 3-7, 2003, at
24 9:21 p.m. to the Evelyn Tavasci home line.
25 Q. How many calls were placed to the Evelyn
26 Tavasci home line from the Kenneth Morgan room?
27 A. On the 7th?
28 Q. Yes, please. 8387
1 A. I have a total of four calls.
2 Q. And when was the last phone call between the
3 Kenneth Morgan room and the Evvy Tavasci home?
4 A. At 9:51 p.m.
5 Q. Is there a room charge visible on Exhibit
6 256?
7 A. There is; in the amount of $850.
8 Q. Per night?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. I believe the next exhibit is 878.
11 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, I’m going to move
12 to strike the last answer for the purpose of
13 objecting to the question. I didn’t know where he
14 was going, but it’s not going anywhere and violates
15 the Court’s rule -- ruling, the room charge.
16 THE COURT: Sustained.
17 MR. SANGER: Stricken?
18 THE COURT: Stricken.
19 MR. NICOLA: Stricken?
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 Q. BY MR. NICOLA: Exhibit 878, is that March
22 8th? I haven’t put it up yet.
23 A. That’s correct.
24 Q. Okay. What do you have listed in Exhibit
25 878?
26 A. Again, we have icons representing telephones
27 associated with individuals and/or locations that
28 have came up during this investigation; namely, 8388
1 starting on the left, Neverland Valley Ranch, Evelyn
2 Tavasci/MJJ Productions, MJJ Productions/Miko
3 Brando, Beverly Hilton, again the Kenneth Morgan
4 room, Evelyn Tavasci/MJJ Productions, and Evelyn
5 Tavasci, home.
6 Q. Are the phone calls between the Evvy Tavasci
7 home and the Kenneth Morgan room also contained in
8 Exhibit 256?
9 A. Yes, they are.
10 Q. And of the 12 calls you have listed, can you
11 tell us which direction they were going?
12 A. All of those are outgoing calls.
13 Q. And over what --
14 A. From the Kenneth Morgan room to the Evelyn
15 Tavasci room, or line.
16 Q. And over what period of time did those 12
17 phone calls span?
18 A. The first call I have occurs at 8:35 a.m. in
19 the morning and the last call occurs at 6:57 p.m. in
20 the evening.
21 Q. Were there calls from the Kenneth Morgan
22 room to two other phones registered to Evvy Tavasci
23 through MJJ Productions?
24 A. There were.
25 Q. And on the right-hand side of that exhibit
26 appears to be the number “3” in the middle of a
27 link. Can you tell us about that phone number,
28 please, between the Kenneth Morgan room and the 8389
1 Evelyn Tavasci MJJ Production phone?
2 A. Okay. That is the -- the phone number is
3 (818) 402-7087. It comes back registered to Evelyn
4 Tavasci, MJJ Productions.
5 Q. And in the top center of the page, there’s
6 another telephone with the same icon. Is that a
7 different number with the four connections?
8 A. Actually, I’m sorry, that -- the four is the
9 7087 number. The four calls were to that (818)
10 402-7087. And the three calls were to (310)
11 717-8984.
12 Q. The next exhibit in order, please, Exhibit
13 879. Is this the exhibit for Sunday, March the 9th?
14 A. Yes, it is.
15 Q. Can you tell us what time the phone call
16 between the Cascio phone and the Evvy Tavasci second
17 home line was?
18 A. It occurred at 11:34 p.m., and that was an
19 incoming call from Tavasci to the Cascio line.
20 Q. Can you tell us about the phone calls
21 between the Cascio phone and the Schaffel phone on
22 that day?
23 A. I have two telephone calls from the Cascio
24 phone to -- correction, one from the Cascio phone to
25 the Schaffel phone. Another one that was an
26 incoming from Schaffel to Cascio. First one was one
27 minute prior to 7 p.m., and the second one was at
28 9:31 p.m. 8390
1 Q. Can you tell us about the 12 phone calls
2 between the Evvy Tavasci/MJJ Production phone and
3 the Schaffel phone, please? Do you know when the
4 first one occurred?
5 A. No. There appears to be an error.
6 Q. That should say “Neverland Valley Ranch”?
7 A. It should.
8 Q. Okay. Can you tell us what time the first
9 call to Neverland Valley Ranch occurred?
10 MR. SANGER: I’m just going to object for
11 the moment, that there is a reference to, “That
12 should be Neverland Valley Ranch,” and it’s not
13 clear what that reference is to.
14 THE COURT: Sustained.
15 Q. BY MR. NICOLA: The 12 phone calls I was
16 referring to should have been referred to as the
17 Neverland Valley Ranch, correct?
18 A. That’s correct.
19 Q. So the link between the Tavasci/MJJ
20 Productions phone and the Marc Schaffel phone is
21 incorrect; is that what you’re saying?
22 A. That’s correct.
23 Q. Okay. Were there any calls between the
24 Schaffel phone and the Tavasci phone for that day?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Okay. So the 12 calls between the
27 Tavasci/MJJ Production phone and the Neverland
28 Valley Ranch phone began at what time that day? 8391
1 A. 8:48 a.m.
2 Q. And what time did they cease?
3 A. At 8:19 p.m.
4 Q. Is the chart -- excuse me, is the
5 spreadsheet behind the chart accurate, to your
6 recollection?
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. Okay. And is that how you realized the
9 actual chart that’s up on the screen is incorrect
10 with respect to the link between the Evvy Tavasci
11 phone and the Marc Schaffel phone?
12 A. That’s correct.
13 Q. The call between the Amen phone and the
14 Schaffel phone, what time did that occur, please?
15 A. At 1757 hours.
16 Q. And that was a one-minute call?
17 A. One-minute duration.
18 MR. NICOLA: Your Honor, I’ll move to strike
19 this chart, Exhibit 879.
20 It is 879, correct?
21 THE WITNESS: Correct.
22 MR. NICOLA: Pending correction.
23 MR. SANGER: Well, I object to that. It’s
24 been referred to in front of the jury, so it should
25 remain. And they can present a corrected chart if
26 they want.
27 MR. NICOLA: We can do that.
28 THE COURT: I think that’s the way to do it. 8392
1 Q. BY MR. NICOLA: Did that take you through
2 your daily obligation?
3 A. It did.
4 MR. NICOLA: Thank you.
5 Your Honor, I have no further questions at
6 this time.
7 THE COURT: All right. We’ll take our break
8 and then you can do your cross.
9 (Recess taken.)
10 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Sanger, you ready?
11 MR. SANGER: Yes.
12 Before we do, I was right in the middle of
13 trying to find Exhibits 451 and 458. They’re in a
14 binder.
15 MR. NICOLA: The originals? They’re all
16 right here.
17 MR. SANGER: There we go. All right. I’ll
18 get to them in a minute.
19 May I proceed, Your Honor?
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21
22 CROSS-EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. SANGER:
24 Q. Okay. Some big-picture questions. First of
25 all -- I don’t really want to go through the exact
26 times of minutes of everything, but there are some
27 big-picture questions.
28 First of all, in all these phone records 8393
1 that you analyzed, were you able to determine from
2 the phone records whether or not Michael Jackson was
3 ever on a single call?
4 A. No.
5 Q. And as to some of the other records, for
6 instance, those pertaining to Marc Schaffel,
7 Frederic Marc Schaffel, there are several telephone
8 numbers associated with Mr. Schaffel, correct?
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. And you’re one of the lead detectives in
11 this case, correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Based on your investigation, during the
14 period of time February and March of 2003, Mr.
15 Schaffel had converted his house into an office; is
16 that right?
17 A. It’s the first I’ve heard of it, but --
18 Q. Were you aware that he had a number of
19 people working out of his house?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. All right. And they had different offices
22 set up in his house?
23 A. The interviews that I’ve conducted,
24 basically people were working -- doing work out of
25 his house, but not necessarily separate offices.
26 Q. Okay. All right. Now, I notice on the
27 summary charts, sometimes, in fact most of the time,
28 you included one-minute calls? 8394
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Sometimes you did not, correct?
3 A. Usually -- I mean, we tried to include
4 everything that was a one-minute call.
5 Q. Okay. For instance - and I’ll find the
6 chart here - but there was a chart, I believe, where
7 you had not shown two calls from Jay Jackson’s house
8 because apparently they were very short calls. They
9 were one-minute calls.
10 MR. NICOLA: Objection. The question is
11 vague.
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Do you recall that?
14 A. I think I can clarify that. The records
15 that were introduced into evidence show that those
16 calls were actually less than 30 seconds in length,
17 and that’s why we removed those calls from the
18 overall count.
19 Q. All right. So some of these phone
20 records -- you looked at phone records from various
21 carriers and from hotels; is that correct?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. And some of the carriers bill a call as a
24 minute, no matter how long it takes?
25 A. Correct.
26 Q. If it’s under a minute, I should say, of
27 course.
28 A. Yes. 8395
1 Q. And sometimes the carrier will show a
2 specific number of seconds; is that correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. All right. Now, another big-picture item,
5 if we can. There are some calls that you showed
6 were placed to the law firm of Geragos & Geragos?
7 A. That’s correct.
8 Q. And some of those calls -- and we can go
9 through if you want, but some of those calls were a
10 minute or less, correct?
11 A. That’s correct.
12 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that the
13 caller was able to get through the receptionist and
14 to an attorney there?
15 A. I wouldn’t necessarily think an incoming
16 call less than a minute, but an out -- I’m sorry, an
17 incoming call from Geragos to the cell phone could
18 result in a connection in less than a minute.
19 However, I would highly doubt that a call from the
20 cell phone to Geragos would probably result in a
21 call.
22 Q. In other words, his law firm has a
23 receptionist; is that correct?
24 A. I would assume so.
25 Q. Okay. And there are a number of people that
26 work at his law firm besides Mr. Geragos himself?
27 A. That’s correct.
28 Q. All right. Another overall question. When 8396
1 there are phone calls that are placed to -- they’re
2 coming into a place like the Turnberry or one of the
3 other hotels, those calls go to a switchboard; is
4 that correct?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And then the switchboard would send the
7 calls to particular rooms or particular staff people
8 or guests or whatever, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And so, number one, you have no way of
11 determining where those calls ended up, correct?
12 A. Other than to say they went to the Turnberry
13 itself, no.
14 Q. That’s right. As far as you could trace it,
15 it got to the reception desk, and then where it went
16 from there we don’t know?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Okay. And once again, if there’s a
19 one-minute call to one of those hotels, there’s no
20 reason to believe that the call actually got
21 completed to a guest in the hotel?
22 A. Not necessarily, no.
23 Q. Okay. All right. One more overall question
24 here. You mentioned Rudy Provencio in your
25 analysis, correct?
26 A. Correct.
27 Q. And the first call that you show Rudy
28 Provencio was involved in was on February the 8th of 8397
1 2003; is that correct?
2 A. That’s correct.
3 Q. And there are some other references to Mr.
4 Provencio from time to time being involved in phone
5 calls after that date, correct?
6 A. That’s correct.
7 Q. But you have no phone calls showing that
8 Rudy Provencio was involved in making or receiving
9 calls from any of the people involved in this
10 investigation before February the 8th, 2003,
11 correct?
12 A. Not that has made it into these exhibits.
13 Q. Well, based on your analysis of the records
14 and everybody else that was helping you - right? --
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. -- you have no indication that Rudy
17 Provencio talked to anybody on the phone associated
18 with this case before February the 8th, 2003; is
19 that correct?
20 A. Again, I’d have to -- to say that it’s based
21 within these exhibits, no, there is not. However, I
22 am aware that there are some records that did not
23 make it into the computer to get analyzed with this,
24 and I can’t tell you whether or not there are or are
25 not calls in those records.
26 Q. Okay. So you’re saying -- you’re leaving
27 the door open that, you know, there’s some other
28 records, but you did your best job at analyzing what 8398
1 you thought was important for this case, right?
2 A. That’s correct.
3 Q. Okay. And you tried to put in all the phone
4 calls that you thought would be important to the
5 investigation, right?
6 A. Correct.
7 MR. SANGER: Okay. Now, let me ask if I can
8 retrieve from the District Attorney, I think I need
9 the original of 451 and 458.
10 MR. NICOLA: Help yourself.
11 MR. SANGER: May I walk around here?
12 THE COURT: Yes.
13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Now, Detective Bonner, did
14 you prepare these charts, these actual charts that
15 you have shown?
16 A. I had them prepared, correct.
17 Q. Okay. And some of these were finalized just
18 this morning or late last night; is that correct?
19 A. Late last night.
20 Q. Okay. So we were handed the final versions
21 of some of them just this morning. They were handed
22 to the defense this morning, correct?
23 A. I don’t know when you were handed. I do
24 know that we finalized them late last night.
25 Q. All right. Did you do a chart for February
26 the 4th, 2003?
27 A. No.
28 Q. Were you aware that there were telephone 8399
1 calls relating to some of the people in this case on
2 February the 4th, 2003?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And specifically let me ask you if those
5 were from the SBC Pac-Bell phone records, or, I
6 don’t know anymore, AT&T phone records?
7 A. I’d have to refer to the records.
8 Q. Okay. I’m sorry, just one second.
9 Okay. Let me get you the original.
10 All right. May I approach the witness, Your
11 Honor?
12 THE COURT: Yes.
13 Q. BY MR. SANGER: I’m going to show you
14 Exhibit 451 and I’ve turned it to Tab No. 6, and see
15 if you’re oriented as to what that is.
16 A. Okay. This is a telephone record, a Pacific
17 Bell telephone record for the Jay Jackson line,
18 (213) 739-9279, and it shows two calls on February
19 4th to a phone number ending in 1861.
20 MR. SANGER: And, Your Honor, with your
21 permission, may I put a copy of that one page up?
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 MR. SANGER: All right. This is 451, Tab 6.
24 Q. All right. And that -- the two calls that
25 I’m referring to there say, “FE04.” Is that
26 February 4th? Is that correct?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. 6:11 p.m. and 6:14 p.m.; is that correct? 8400
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. It says -- oh, thank you. There’s a point
3 up there, I think we all know but -- all right. And
4 it says, “Reseda.” Is that where it’s going or
5 where it came from?
6 A. I believe that’s where it’s going to.
7 Q. And that’s the phone number that it’s going
8 to, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And this is the phone number that it’s
11 coming from; is that correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. All right. And both of those phone calls
14 were four minutes apiece?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. All right. The phone that this was coming
17 from was Jay Jackson’s phone; is that correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. The phone number it’s going to is whose
20 phone?
21 A. I don’t immediately recognize that number.
22 Q. All right. Let’s see if we can figure it
23 out here.
24 If you turn to Tab 9, please, and look at
25 those documents and see if those are the types of
26 documents that would assist you in determining who
27 is assigned a particular phone number.
28 A. It is. That phone number, (818) 757-1861, 8401
1 comes back to Chris Tucker.
2 Q. Chris Tucker. Okay.
3 What I’m going to propose, with the Court’s
4 permission, is I’m going to write on a piece of
5 paper here illustrative of the witness’s testimony.
6 I’ll take it piece by piece, and if he agrees, I’m
7 going ask to admit it and publish it.
8 So I’m going to start with a blank piece of
9 paper, and I guess we should have that marked as
10 defense next in order, if we may.
11 THE COURT: That’s fine.
12 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
13 THE CLERK: That’s 5011.
14 MR. SANGER: 5011? Okay. Why don’t we go
15 ahead and mark that piece of paper.
16 Okay. Thank you.
17 Q. Okay. Now, you would agree that the phone
18 records that we just referred to up here, which is
19 from Tab No. 6 of Exhibit 451 - okay? - the one
20 that’s on the board - all right? - you would agree
21 that those relate to February 4th of 2003; is that
22 correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. So I’m going to write at the top “02-04-03.”
25 Now, your chart started -- Exhibit 859 started on
26 02-05-03; is that right?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. That was a Wednesday. So what day of the 8402
1 week would 04 be?
2 A. Tuesday.
3 Q. There you go. You paid attention in grammar
4 school and it paid off, all right.
5 All right. I’m going to write that on the
6 top of the page.
7 Now, the one telephone that we’re dealing
8 with here belongs to Jay Jackson; is that correct?
9 A. Correct. The 9279.
10 Q. Okay. So I’m going to draw a telephone.
11 And I’m going to put “Jay Jackson” under it. And
12 now that you’ve looked at the other phone records,
13 you determined that that call was placed to who?
14 A. Chris Tucker’s phone.
15 Q. Chris Tucker’s phone. I’m going to draw
16 another telephone, not very well, by the way, and
17 I’m going to put the number “2” on the bar. That’s
18 what you were doing if you were showing two calls,
19 correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And these two calls go from Jay Jackson’s
22 telephone to Chris Tucker’s telephone, correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. So I’ll write “Chris Tucker.” And remind us
25 who Chris Tucker is.
26 A. He is an entertainer, comedian.
27 Q. And he was in the movies with Jackie Chan?
28 A. Yes. 8403
1 Q. There you go. And I’m going to do one other
2 thing, if it’s all right with you. I’m going to do
3 an arrow at the end of the bar to show which
4 direction those calls were going. Would that be all
5 right?
6 A. Sounds good.
7 Q. Does that make sense to you?
8 Okay. And can you tell us what time of day
9 those telephone calls occurred?
10 A. 6:11 and 6:14 p.m.
11 Q. Okay. So I’m going to write down 6:11 and
12 6:14 p.m. under the line.
13 May I approach the witness?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. SANGER: I’ll show you what I did.
16 Who’s looking at this? Oh, that’s right. Sorry.
17 MR. NICOLA: That’s a beautiful chart.
18 MR. SANGER: Thank you. Others will be the
19 judge of that.
20 THE WITNESS: You appear to have paid more
21 attention in art class than I did.
22 Q. BY MR. SANGER: There you go. All right.
23 I want to ask you, does that appear to be an
24 accurate depiction?
25 A. Correct.
26 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, I would move into
27 evidence 5011.
28 THE COURT: It’s admitted. 8404
1 MR. SANGER: Thank you. And I’d ask
2 permission to place that up on the board.
3 THE COURT: You may.
4 MR. SANGER: Thank you. Or on the screen.
5 Q. Okay. Did it the old-fashioned way.
6 Now, does that accurately represent -- I
7 don’t want to beat this to death here, but does that
8 accurately represent the date at the top, right?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And then we have a call from Jay Jackson’s
11 telephone, two calls, 6:11 and 6:14 p.m., to Chris
12 Tucker’s telephone, correct?
13 A. That’s correct.
14 Q. Okay. Thank you.
15 All right. Now I want to go to some other
16 telephone calls at the end. And let me take this
17 down. I’m sorry, not at the end. I want to go to
18 the middle, to 2-11. Excuse me.
19 Oh, I’m sorry, excuse me. Before I leave
20 that, you have the book up there with the 200
21 series, I believe; is that correct?
22 A. Appears to be from -- correction. Or -- it
23 is the 200 series.
24 Q. So if you look at Exhibit 223 --
25 And that’s already been received into
26 evidence, Your Honor, and I’m going to ask
27 permission to put that up.
28 THE COURT: All right. 8405
1 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
2 Q. There’s two pages to 223; is that correct,
3 sir?
4 A. That’s correct.
5 Q. Okay. The first page I’ll put up on the
6 board, and that’s the itinerary that we’ve seen --
7 you weren’t in the room, I don’t think, but we’ve
8 seen this before. It’s an itinerary for a flight
9 that apparently did not occur, no tickets were
10 issued on this. But it’s an itinerary. But do you
11 see that? Do you recognize that to be what it is?
12 MR. NICOLA: Objection; lack of foundation,
13 Judge.
14 THE COURT: Overruled.
15 You may answer.
16 THE WITNESS: I recognize it as an itinerary.
17 However, I’m not familiar enough with it to tell you
18 whether or not a ticket was issued or not.
19 Q. BY MR. SANGER: That’s fair enough. In any
20 event, there’s an itinerary there, and that’s for a
21 flight that’s scheduled to go at two o’clock in the
22 afternoon; is that correct?
23 A. It appears to be the case.
24 Q. All right. And if we look at -- keeping
25 that in mind for a moment, if we look at page two
26 down at the bottom, there’s a fax transmittal that
27 shows this document was faxed or attempted to be
28 faxed at 11:31 in the morning on February 5, 8406
1 correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. It shows, “NG,” it didn’t go through, but at
4 least they were trying to fax it at that time,
5 correct?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. All right. Now, on your February 5
8 document, if we look at page -- if the summary is
9 page one, then this would be page three. It’s the
10 second page of phone summary records.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. All right. Did I tell you Exhibit 859?
13 A. That’s correct.
14 Q. Did I say that? Okay. So that’s for the
15 5th of February. And if you look down the list --
16 Your Honor, may I inquire of counsel?
17 Has this page been changed?
18 THE WITNESS: I don’t believe so.
19 MR. SANGER: Okay. May I inquire of the
20 witness? All right. Why don’t I just approach so
21 we don’t have a problem, Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: You may.
23 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Let me just make sure
24 we’re -- maybe compare the top and the bottom to see
25 if they’re the same.
26 A. Yes.
27 MR. SANGER: Okay. May I publish this page?
28 It’s already been admitted. 8407
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 Q. BY MR. SANGER: It actually says page two of
3 three at the bottom, sir?
4 A. That’s correct.
5 Q. It’s actually page three of the exhibit,
6 because the first page is your summary, right?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. All right. I’ll put that up. Let’s see if
9 it settles there.
10 All right. I’m hoping it’s going to get a
11 little clearer, but it doesn’t seem to want to do
12 that. I guess we cut off part of it here. Let’s
13 see if that....
14 All right. Before I refer to -- I’m going
15 to refer to this particular line here.
16 A. Can you show me which one again?
17 Q. Yeah, it’s -- there you go. You have to
18 hold it just right. I’m going to refer to this
19 particular line here, which is 2-5-03 at 9:58.
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. Okay? And before we talk about that
22 particularly, let me ask you some general questions
23 that will cover other entries as well.
24 In general, through your investigation in
25 this case, did you determine that when Mr. Jackson
26 travels, the people that arrange his travel often
27 will take a name that is not Mr. Jackson’s name and
28 use that for the purpose of booking hotels? 8408
1 A. That’s correct.
2 Q. And is that something common with
3 celebrities, to book rooms under other names,
4 whether it’s a staff person or just a fictitious
5 name?
6 A. I don’t have personal knowledge. This is
7 the only instance that I’ve personally been involved
8 in.
9 Q. All right. Have you ever seen other
10 celebrities book rooms?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. All right. Anyway, it makes sense to
13 you. You don’t want to put your own name down there
14 if you’re going to attract a lot of attention,
15 right?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And sometimes in your investigation, just to
18 cover the big picture, you will see in the documents
19 that the name that is used appears to have -- the
20 last name that’s used appears to have no relation to
21 anybody we know of, right?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. So it just might be a name like “Mason” or
24 something like that; is that correct?
25 A. Could be, yes.
26 Q. On the other hand, sometimes you’ll see
27 rooms are booked in the name of somebody who is
28 actually working for MJJ Productions or in some 8409
1 other way associated with that organization, such as
2 Chris Carter?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. So Chris Carter might reserve rooms in his
5 name, right?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. You never saw rooms reserved in the name of
8 Michael Jackson himself, correct?
9 A. No.
10 Q. All right. And the records are kept openly
11 in that regard, correct? In other words, through
12 the records that you found both at Neverland and
13 from the various places where records were
14 subpoenaed or obtained by search warrants,
15 internally there was no effort to hide the fact that
16 these were Mr. Jackson’s rooms, right?
17 A. No.
18 Q. All right. So, going to these -- we can
19 look at all these rooms down here. These are
20 basically a series of phone numbers that are
21 associated with rooms or suites at that hotel; is
22 that correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And the Presidential Suite, or the top one
25 that we’re looking at here, was a multi-room suite;
26 is that correct?
27 A. I don’t know for certain. I just simply
28 went off the records themselves. 8410
1 Q. In your investigation, the course of your
2 investigation, did you determine that the
3 Presidential Suite was a multi-room suite?
4 A. Not personally, no.
5 Q. You heard that though?
6 A. I have heard that, yes.
7 Q. Do you know how many telephones were located
8 in that suite?
9 A. I do not.
10 Q. Do you know how many people associated with
11 MJJ Productions or with other people in this case,
12 or in or out of this case, how many people were
13 associated with that room?
14 A. I don’t know.
15 Q. Do you know how many people came in and out
16 of that room?
17 A. No, I do not.
18 Q. Do you know how many people -- how many
19 people used the phone or phones in that room?
20 A. Of course not.
21 Q. Pardon?
22 A. Of course not.
23 Q. Yeah, okay.
24 That’s a question like Tuesday comes before
25 Wednesday. I just wanted to get it on the record.
26 Thank you.
27 Okay. Now, as we look here, this appears --
28 this particular call appears to have occurred at 8411
1 9:58 in the morning, correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. That’s two minutes of 10:00, right?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And that would have been Florida time,
6 right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And Florida is three hours -- what time
9 would it be in California if it was 9:58 in Florida?
10 A. It would be two minutes before 7 a.m.,
11 California time.
12 Q. All right. So there’s some call from
13 somebody at two minutes to 7:00 that lasts 27
14 minutes that was placed from the Turnberry and was
15 made to Jay Jackson, correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Now, in the course of your investigation, I
18 think we’ve already shown you, and I won’t put it
19 back up, Exhibit 223. That at least has an
20 itinerary for people to fly commercially at two
21 o’clock on the 5th, right?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. In the course of your investigation, you
24 determined that in fact, Chris Tucker was the person
25 who arranged for a private jet to take the Arvizos
26 to Florida; is that correct?
27 A. That is my understanding.
28 Q. And you do not have any other calls, other 8412
1 than those on the 4th, between members associated
2 with the Arvizos - that is, Jay Jackson and the
3 Venturas or anybody else associated with the Arvizos -
4 and Chris Tucker; is that correct?
5 A. I believe there was one call later on that
6 we covered.
7 Q. When was that?
8 A. It was in the March time frame.
9 Q. Okay. I’m sorry, I meant in this time
10 period, February the 4th and the 5th, regarding this
11 flight to Miami.
12 A. No. No.
13 Q. Okay. All right. Now I’d like to turn to
14 Exhibit 458, if we can, please, and I’ll take this
15 off in a moment. And 458 relates to whom?
16 A. You’ll have to bring me the record.
17 Q. Oh, I’m sorry.
18 May I approach, Your Honor?
19 THE COURT: Yes.
20 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
21 MR. SANGER: Sure.
22 Q. 458 relates to whom?
23 A. This appears to be a billing for Jay Jackson
24 telephone line.
25 Q. And what company?
26 A. I believe this is the Talk America records.
27 Q. And that would be the long-distance carrier
28 for Jay Jackson? 8413
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Okay. So the phone records that we just saw
3 up on the board were the local phone records for Jay
4 Jackson; is that correct?
5 A. Or local toll or -- yeah. Not long
6 distance.
7 Q. Not long distance. There are toll charges?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. But not technically long distance.
10 All right. So looking at 458, these appear
11 to indicate phone calls made long distance by Jay
12 Jackson. And if I’m correct -- if you’ll bear with
13 me, just hold on to that. Don’t go anywhere for a
14 moment.
15 Look at your exhibits that you just talked
16 about today, Exhibits 859 through 881, whatever it
17 was, and you testified to some of them, but not all
18 of them, we know that, okay? And I’m going to ask
19 you to look in particular at 862 and 863.
20 While the witness is doing that, I’d like to
21 have marked next in order two more blank pieces of
22 paper.
23 THE COURT: You may.
24 MR. SANGER: Thank you. Separate numbers.
25 Q. All right. Are you looking at 862 and 863?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Okay. Not a big thing. It’s just you
28 jump -- 862 is for February the 8th, and then the 8414
1 next summary chart you have is for February the
2 12th; is that correct?
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. All right. So you did not do a summary
5 chart for February the 11th, correct?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Now, on February 11th, based on your
8 investigation, the night of February 11th, right at
9 the end of the night, were you aware that Janet
10 Arvizo had asked somebody to give her a ride?
11 A. The 11th or the 12th. I’m not sure which
12 day.
13 Q. And the ride actually occurred at -- the
14 ride -- the Rolls Royce left the ranch at about 1:52
15 in the morning; is that correct?
16 A. The person I interviewed wasn’t real certain
17 about times, so --
18 Q. You’re familiar with the gate logs, right?
19 A. Yes. But --
20 Q. Did you look at the entries on the gate
21 logs?
22 A. I did. But not having them in front of me,
23 I couldn’t state with certainty.
24 Q. Whatever time it was, it was sometime in the
25 early morning hours of the 12th when the Rolls Royce
26 left the property; is that your understanding?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. So my question was, were you aware that she 8415
1 was asking, around midnight, somewhere just before
2 midnight on the 11th, for a ride?
3 A. That is my understanding, yes.
4 Q. All right. There you go.
5 So on the 11th, I want to follow the same
6 procedure, with the Court’s permission, and I’m
7 going to write up at the top “02-11-03.” And since
8 the 12th was a Wednesday, the 11th had to be a
9 Tuesday. We learned that. Right?
10 A. Sounds good.
11 Q. Okay. And now I’m going to ask, with the
12 Court’s permission, to put up page two of Exhibit
13 458.
14 THE COURT: All right.
15 MR. SANGER: All right.
16 Q. Page two of 458. All right. Now, referring
17 to -- I’m going to refer to these three calls down
18 here. Hit the line numbers, I’ll make it easier.
19 Referring to these three calls down here
20 that say “Santa Barbara,” so that looks like 17, 18
21 and 19, correct?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. And I think you told us these are the phone
24 records of Jay Jackson, correct?
25 A. Correct.
26 Q. The long-distance phone records, correct?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. And it appears that on line 17, on 2-11-03 8416
1 at 2322 hours -- that would be 11:22 at night,
2 correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Jay Jackson calls from Los Angeles, where
5 his phone’s located, to Santa Barbara, correct?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. And then you look right below it, at 2323,
8 in other words, one minute later, he makes another
9 call to Santa Barbara, correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. And then on the 19th -- I’m sorry, on line
12 19, the same evening, at 2349 or 11:49 at night, he
13 makes another call to Santa Barbara, correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. So, once again, I’m going to draw one of
16 those little phones and I’m going to put “Jay
17 Jackson” under it, and I’m going to put -- there’s
18 two different numbers that are called, right?
19 A. That’s correct.
20 Q. I’m going to put two arrows, do it a little
21 differently than your chart, but not much, and I’ll
22 put “1” for one number and “2” for the other
23 numbers, and then I will draw two phones quickly.
24 All right. Now, let me ask you if you
25 recognize the first number that was called on that
26 evening.
27 A. The 2300 number?
28 Q. Yeah. 8417
Subject: May 2, 2005 
Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:38 am
