1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION
4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE
5
6
7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )
8 CALIFORNIA, )
9 Plaintiff, )
10 -vs- ) No. 1133603
11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
12 Defendant. )
13
14
15
16
17 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
18
19 THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 2005
20
21 8:35 A.M.
22
23 (PAGES 1526 THROUGH 1529)
24
25
26
27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 BY: Official Court Reporter 1525
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2
3 For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
4 District Attorney -and-
5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney
6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street
8 Santa Barbara, California 93101
9
10
11 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
12 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
13 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067
14 -and-
15 SANGER & SWYSEN
16 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C
17 Santa Barbara, California 93101
18 -and-
19 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
20 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670
21 (Not Present)
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27
28 1526
1 Santa Maria, California
2 Thursday, March 10, 2005
3 8:35 a.m.
4
5 (The following proceedings were held in
6 open court outside the presence and hearing of the
7 jury:)
8
9 THE COURT: Good morning.
10 Try that again. Good morning.
11 COUNSEL AT COUNSEL TABLE: (In unison)
12 Good morning, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: I notice the defendant’s not
14 present.
15 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor. Mr. Jackson
16 is at --
17 THE COURT: They can’t hear you. Speak into
18 the microphone, please.
19 MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Jackson is at Cottage
20 Hospital in Santa Ynez with a serious back problem.
21 My understanding is he’s on his way in. The doctor
22 does want to talk to you on the phone. That’s the
23 last information I have.
24 I did give the -- I had the doctor on my
25 cell phone. I did give it to your clerk and tried
26 to make contact with you, but I -- I know that
27 they’re waiting, hoping to speak to you about it.
28 My understanding is that he does plan to come in. 1527
1 THE COURT: I’m going to issue a warrant for
2 his arrest. I’m forfeiting his bail.
3 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor --
4 THE COURT: I’m going to hold that order for
5 one hour. In one hour I’m going to execute that
6 order.
7 Court’s in recess.
8 (Recess taken.)
9 --o0o--
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28 1528
1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE
2
3
4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE )
5 OF CALIFORNIA, )
6 Plaintiff, )
7 -vs- ) No. 1133603
8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
9 Defendant. )
10
11
12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,
13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby
14 certify:
15 That the foregoing pages 1527 through 1528
16 contain a true and correct transcript of the
17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled
18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at
19 said proceedings on March 10, 2005, and thereafter
20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided
21 transcription under my direction.
22 DATED: Santa Maria, California,
23 March 10, 2005.
24
25
26
27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 1529
1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION
4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE
5
6
7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )
8 CALIFORNIA, )
9 Plaintiff, )
10 -vs- ) No. 1133603
11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
12 Defendant. )
13
14
15
16
17
18 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
19
20 THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 2005
21
22 (PAGES 1530 THROUGH 1714)
23
24
25
26
27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 BY: Official Court Reporter 1530
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2
3
For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
4 District Attorney -and-
5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney
6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street
8 Santa Barbara, California 93101
9
10
11 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
12 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
13 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067
14 -and-
15 SANGER & SWYSEN
16 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C
17 Santa Barbara, California 93101
18 -and-
19 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
20 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 1531
1 I N D E X
2
3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as “SN” on index.
4 Mr. Zonen is listed as “Z” on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as “A” on index.
5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as “M” on index. Ms. Yu is listed as “Y” on index.
6 Mr. Sanger is listed as “SA” on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as “O” on index.
7
8
9 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
10
11 ARVIZO, Gavin-Anton 1536-SN (cont’d)
12 1608-SN 1686-M
13 (cont’d)
14 ROBEL, Steve Daniel 1598-SN 1600-SA 1607-SN
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28 1532
1 E X H I B I T S
2
3 FOR IN PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.
4
5 99 Photograph of arcade 1638 1639
6 342 Bag containing watch 1561 1562
7 343 Bag containing black jacket 1561 1562
8 344 Diagram of interior of plane (Gavin Arvizo) 1564 1564
9 345 DVD, Neverland search,
10 containing the sound of bedroom suite chimes 1594 1608
11 346 Notes in Gavin Arvizo’s
12 handwriting 1610 1611
13 347 Note in Michael Jackson’s handwriting 1611 1611
14 348 Blue bag containing
15 schoolbooks 1652 1654
16 349 Clear plastic bag containing an orange plastic bottle 1658
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28 1533
1 Santa Maria, California
2 Thursday, March 10, 2005
3 10:00 a.m.
4
5 (The following proceedings were held in
6 open court in the presence and hearing of the
7 jury:)
8
9 THE COURT: Good morning.
10 THE JURY: (In unison) Good morning.
11 COUNSEL AT COUNSEL TABLE: (In unison)
12 Good morning, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: I’m sorry for the delay.
14 Mr. Jackson had a medical problem this morning, and
15 it was necessary for me to order his appearance.
16 I’m telling you that because I don’t want you to
17 draw any adverse inference about his guilt or
18 inference from the fact that I had to order him
19 here.
20 If one of you had called in and had not
21 appeared, or one of the attorneys, I would have had
22 to do the same thing. The trial is going to go
23 forward.
24 So I just want you to understand, in doing
25 that, I’m not expressing any opinion about the case,
26 about Mr. Jackson, or about the District Attorney.
27 It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Okay.
28 All right. Let’s see. Are you ready to go 1534
1 forward.
2 MR. SNEDDON: I am, Your Honor. And before
3 I begin, some housekeeping from yesterday.
4 THE COURT: Mike.
5 MR. SNEDDON: How’s that.
6 THE COURT: They’ve quit waving at me. It’s
7 probably okay.
8 MR. SNEDDON: Some housekeeping from
9 yesterday, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 MR. SNEDDON: Yesterday we saw the overheads
12 of those cards. For the record, I have consulted
13 with Mr. Sanger. The cards came from Item No. 1796
14 from the sheriff’s department. I now have the cards
15 themselves, and I will give them to the clerk to
16 substitute for the video in terms of the evidence.
17 THE COURT: All right.
18 MR. SANGER: I think it’s Exhibit 5004, and
19 we had temporarily lodged the disk. And now the
20 actual cards are being exchanged.
21 THE COURT: It is 5004, and I will release
22 the disk to you now. And thank you.
23 MR. SANGER: Thank you, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: The cards are admitted into
25 evidence.
26 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
27 THE COURT: Oh, there’s one other issue I
28 want to address. And as you heard yesterday, this 1535
1 witness has one kidney. That causes a problem.
2 Sometimes he needs to go to the rest room more than
3 others. Although we all seem to have that problem.
4 (Laughter.)
5 THE COURT: If he needs to go, he’s going to
6 signal me, and we’ll just wait a minute while he
7 does that.
8 Go ahead.
9 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you, Your Honor.
10
11 GAVIN-ANTON ARVIZO
12 Having been previously sworn, resumed the
13 stand and testified further as follows:
14
15 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
16 BY MR. SNEDDON:
17 Q. Good morning.
18 A. Morning, Tom; Mr. Sneddon.
19 Q. I want to go back and talk about a couple of
20 things that I neglected to cover yesterday. And I
21 want to take you back in time to the first visit to
22 Neverland Ranch, and in particular to the computer
23 that Mr. Jackson gave you. Do you recall that.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What kind of computer was it.
26 A. It had an apple on it. I think it was a Mac
27 computer or something like that. It was, like, a
28 laptop. 1536
1 Q. After Mr. Jackson gave you the computer, did
2 you -- were you contacted by somebody to set up some
3 kind of Internet account for that computer.
4 A. Yes. Well, Michael told me to call Evvy and
5 see -- because he said he wanted me to get the
6 Internet for the computer.
7 Q. Did you know who Evvy was.
8 A. She was, like, an assistant lady for
9 Michael.
10 Q. Did you do that.
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. And as a result of that, did you -- did
13 somebody contact you after you talked to Evvy.
14 A. Yeah. It was a guy named David, I think.
15 Q. And what was the purpose for which David
16 contacted you.
17 A. To help -- to tell me how to set up the
18 Internet account, because I didn’t know how.
19 Q. And who paid for that.
20 A. Michael did.
21 Q. Now, when you set up the Internet account,
22 did you have an e-mail address.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And where did you -- what was the e-mail
25 address.
26 A. Whitehawk344, I think.
27 Q. Now, you say “whitehawk.” Where did the
28 e-mail address come from. 1537
1 A. Well, my name “Gavin” in Irish, it means --
2 well, it means a lot of stuff. It means, like,
3 three different things, but one of the things it
4 means is “whitehawk.”
5 Q. So where did you get the idea to do that.
6 A. Because “Gavin” means “whitehawk,” so that’s
7 why I it put on my screen name.
8 Q. Did you have a password.
9 A. Yeah.
10 Q. What was your password.
11 A. Well, it could have been a lot of things,
12 but I think it was “American.”
13 Q. Did you change it from time to time.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you remember any of the other passwords
16 you used.
17 A. Password 123456, 654321.
18 Q. So you just changed the sequence of the
19 numbers.
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. One other thing I want to talk to you about.
22 Between the time that -- well, let me ask it this
23 way: Did you ever visit Mr. Jackson at any hotels.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Where was that.
26 A. Once at a Universal Hilton.
27 Q. And was this before, during or after the
28 time you had cancer. 1538
1 A. This is during the time I had cancer.
2 Q. And do you remember how long you visited
3 with him.
4 A. Two hours.
5 Q. And how did you get there.
6 A. My biological father drove me over there.
7 Q. Yesterday you testified about the Bashir
8 video. Do you recall that.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And have you ever seen that video from start
11 to finish.
12 A. No, I’ve seen pieces of it, and I saw when
13 he interviewed me, but I didn’t really see the whole
14 thing.
15 Q. So you did see the part that involved you.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And when was the first time you saw that.
18 A. Well, when we were -- when I was in Miami,
19 me and Michael, he didn’t want to see it, so we
20 didn’t watch it there. I saw it in my house later
21 when VH-1 was showing it.
22 Q. Was this after you left the ranch for good.
23 A. Yeah, I believe so.
24 Q. Now, that portion of the video that shows
25 you sitting on the couch with Mr. Jackson, there’s a
26 point in time where you place your head on his
27 shoulder and hold hands with Mr. Jackson. Do you
28 recall that part of it. 1539
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How did that come about.
3 A. I don’t know. We were just sitting there.
4 Well, the holding hands part, that was one of the
5 things that Michael told me to do. But I put my
6 head on his shoulder.
7 Q. Why did you do that.
8 A. Because -- I don’t know. It was -- like he
9 was -- I was really close to Michael, and he was
10 like my best friend, so I just put my head on his
11 shoulder.
12 Q. Okay. Now, from the time that you had the
13 interview with you and Mr. Jackson and Mr. Bashir
14 till the time that you left to go to Miami, did you
15 have any contact with Mr. Jackson.
16 A. From when I left from Martin Bashir.
17 Q. Right.
18 A. Can you repeat the question.
19 Q. Sure. From the time that you had the
20 interview with Mr. Bashir and Mr. Jackson and you --
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. -- okay. -- till the time shortly before you
23 left for Miami, did you have any contact with Mr.
24 Jackson.
25 A. No.
26 Q. Do you remember when the next contact with
27 Mr. Jackson was.
28 A. Like, right when the stuff came out, when 1540
1 the video documentary started showing on T.V.
2 Q. How did you find out that the documentary
3 was shown on T.V..
4 A. Well, it was -- it was being showed over in
5 Britain, but they were talking about it on the news
6 and stuff, so that’s how I found out.
7 Q. You actually heard it on the news yourself.
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Did any people come around your house at
10 all, that you know of.
11 A. No. I don’t know of any.
12 Q. Now, when you heard it on the news, about
13 the documentary, did you at some point have a
14 telephone conversation with the defendant, Mr.
15 Jackson.
16 A. Yes. He called me.
17 Q. All right. Tell us about the conversation.
18 A. He told --
19 Q. Where were you when you got the call.
20 A. I was in the house, in my house, when -- the
21 first time I moved in with my stepfather. And then
22 he called and wanted me to go to Miami because of
23 all the stuff that was going on. And he said that
24 he wanted to hold a press conference. And he wanted
25 me to be with him.
26 Q. With him --
27 A. During the press conference.
28 Q. What else did he say. 1541
1 A. He said that he wanted me to go over there.
2 And he said that -- that -- like, we were talking
3 about what was going on. And I was saying, “Ahh,”
4 like, “it’s not right what they’re saying,” and
5 stuff like that.
6 Q. Did Mr. Jackson make comments about -- to
7 you about what was going on.
8 A. No. He just said that he wanted me to go
9 over to Miami.
10 Q. Now, did you go to Miami.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you go by yourself.
13 A. No.
14 Q. Who went with you.
15 A. It was me, my brother, my sister, and my
16 mom. But at first, Michael didn’t really want -- he
17 only really wanted --
18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.
19 Move to strike.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21 MR. SNEDDON: I’ll move on from there.
22 THE COURT: The last sentence is stricken.
23 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, during the
24 conversation with Mr. Jackson - okay.
25 A. Okay.
26 Q. -- did the subject of the rest of your
27 family going to Miami come up.
28 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading. 1542
1 THE COURT: Overruled.
2 You may answer.
3 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question.
4 MR. SNEDDON: Yeah.
5 Q. During the time of your conversation with
6 Mr. Jackson, did the subject of the rest of your
7 family coming to Miami come up during the
8 conversation.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Would you tell us about it.
11 A. At first I asked him if my brother can come,
12 and then he was like, “Yeah.” And then I asked him
13 if my sister could come, and then he was, like, Uhh,
14 hmm, okay.”
15 And then I asked if my mom could come, but
16 he kind of got angry a little bit about my mom
17 coming. And then -- but I told him, “I can’t come
18 without my mom. My mom probably won’t let me.” And
19 he was like, “Okay,” and my mom came.
20 Q. Did -- during that conversation, did you --
21 did you see -- did you hear your mother talk to Mr.
22 Jackson.
23 A. I don’t really remember.
24 Q. Now, after that telephone conversation, did
25 you go to Miami.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. With -- and how did you get to Miami.
28 A. I went with Chris Tucker on his private 1543
1 plane.
2 Q. Do you recall how you got to the plane.
3 A. First we went to his house, and then we put
4 our bags in the bus, and then we went to the
5 airport.
6 Q. And how did you get from your place to his
7 house.
8 A. I’m not sure. I think either I drove over
9 there, or -- yeah, I think I drove over there.
10 Well, my family took me over there.
11 Q. Now, do you remember about what time it was
12 when you left for Miami -- for Miami with Mr.
13 Tucker.
14 A. When we got there, there was -- like,
15 something was going on with the plane or whatever,
16 and we weren’t leaving for a while. And I was -- we
17 stood around for a while. So I think it was maybe,
18 like, 1:00 or 2:00 probably. I’m not sure.
19 Q. Was it still -- was it light or dark out.
20 A. It was light out.
21 Q. When you arrived in Miami, was it light or
22 dark out.
23 A. It was dark.
24 Q. And when you landed in Miami, where did you
25 go.
26 A. We went, all in a limousine, to the hotel.
27 Turnberry Resort, I think it was called.
28 Q. Now, on the plane going there, you’ve told 1544
1 us that your family was there and that Mr. Tucker
2 was there. Was there anybody else, if you recall,
3 on the plane.
4 A. With -- on Chris’s plane.
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. No.
7 Q. When you got to the airport, you left in a
8 limo, and you went where.
9 A. To the Turnberry Resort in Miami.
10 Q. Do you remember what you did when you got
11 there.
12 A. They put our -- they got our bags and
13 Michael put us up in the room. And then we were in
14 the room, and then -- yeah.
15 Q. And do you recall what you did the next day.
16 A. Yeah, the next day they told us that Michael
17 wanted to see us.
18 Q. Who told you that.
19 A. I forgot. But, I mean, just people. And
20 then so that morning we went up to Michael’s room,
21 and then we went and saw him.
22 Q. Who went up there.
23 A. Me, my mom, my brother, and my sister.
24 Q. And when you got up to Mr. Jackson’s room in
25 the hotel, was Mr. Jackson there.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. And when you got there, did you meet people
28 that you didn’t know. 1545
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Who did you meet.
3 A. Marie Nicole, Aldo. And then these two guys
4 were there, Dieter and Ronald.
5 Q. They were there when you got there.
6 A. Yeah -- well, I don’t know if they were
7 there when I got there, but I just remember I met
8 them in Michael’s room.
9 Q. And do you know what the relationship is
10 between Aldo and Marie Nicole and anybody else that
11 you met there that day or that you know.
12 A. Well, they told us that Marie Nicole and
13 Aldo were related to Frank Tyson. Like brother and
14 sister.
15 Q. Did you see Mr. Tyson that day.
16 A. Um, I don’t think I did.
17 Q. Did you see him at any time that you were in
18 Miami.
19 A. No, I don’t think so.
20 Q. Tell us what you did in Mr. Jackson’s room.
21 A. Well, he wanted me to have a meeting with
22 Ronald and Dieter, and so we went in there, and they
23 were talking about how they’re going to, like --
24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
25 THE COURT: Sustained.
26 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, offered under
27 1223.
28 THE COURT: Well, the question -- it’s not 1546
1 responsive, so I don’t know that. He’s -- next
2 question.
3 MR. SNEDDON: All right.
4 Q. You told the ladies and gentlemen of the
5 jury you went somewhere with Mr. Jackson, you went
6 into a room with Mr. Jackson.
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. Who else was in the room.
9 A. Dieter and Ronald.
10 Q. And who else.
11 A. Michael.
12 Q. Now, did you have a conversation with the
13 three of them.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. Would you tell us about the
16 conversation.
17 And it’s offered under 1223, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right. This is offered
19 conditionally, as my previous instruction covered.
20 Go ahead.
21 THE WITNESS: We just -- Dieter and Ronald
22 told me about how they were going to, like, stop all
23 the media stuff from going on or whatever.
24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did they say how they were
25 going to do that.
26 A. No, not really. Dieter told me how he’d,
27 like -- he said that he owned, like, the name, the
28 rights to Michael’s name or something like that. 1547
1 Q. At any time while you were in Miami, did you
2 learn of any threats to you or your family.
3 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Do you recall any other
6 conversations that you had with Dieter or Ronald or
7 Mr. Jackson.
8 A. Not really. Well, there was some -- I had
9 talked with Michael in the room. It’s kind of like
10 connected to his big hotel room.
11 Q. All right. Let me just stop you there. So
12 you had another conversation with Mr. Jackson.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Were Dieter and Ronald present.
15 A. Well, first Michael was having, like, a
16 meeting with Ronald. And then Ronald left, and then
17 I went in there and was talking to him.
18 Q. Now, is this the same meeting that you
19 testified to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
20 or is this another meeting.
21 A. This is another one.
22 Q. Tell us about that meeting.
23 A. Michael was just, like, talking to me and
24 stuff, asking me how I was, and stuff like that.
25 And he gave me, like, another little audition thing,
26 and he improv’d, if he was a principal of a school,
27 and then a girl said that I did something bad, and
28 then -- 1548
1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive.
2 Move to strike.
3 THE COURT: “Tell us about the meeting” calls
4 for a narrative, so I’ll sustain the objection.
5 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Well, tell us what Mr.
6 Jackson said to you in the meeting.
7 A. He was, like, giving me a little audition,
8 and then we were improv-ing.
9 Q. All right. Describe the improv-ing.
10 A. He was, like, the principal of a school, and
11 I was a student that got in trouble because a girl
12 said that I, like, stole something from her or
13 something.
14 Q. How long did this go on between you and Mr.
15 Jackson.
16 A. I think it was like five minutes.
17 Q. Now, did anything else happen between you
18 and Mr. Jackson during your stay at the Turnberry.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What.
21 A. He brought me this -- he had poured -- I
22 didn’t really see what he did, but I found out
23 later. Like, I guess --
24 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; calls for
25 speculation.
26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just tell us what he did,
27 what you saw personally.
28 A. Okay. He brought me -- 1549
1 THE COURT: Just a moment. I’ll sustain the
2 objection, but you’re asking another question.
3 MR. SNEDDON: I am, Your Honor.
4 MR. MESEREAU: Move to strike, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: I’ll strike the last half of his
6 answer. Go ahead.
7 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Tell us what
8 you saw Mr. Jackson do.
9 A. Michael gave me a Diet Coke can.
10 Q. Did he tell you what was in the can.
11 A. Yeah, he told me that it was --
12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
13 THE COURT: Overruled.
14 You may answer “yes” or “no.”
15 THE WITNESS: Michael --
16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just, did he tell you --
17 “yes” or “no”; did he tell you what was in the can.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. All right. What did he tell you.
20 A. He told me if I ever heard of Jesus Juice,
21 and then --
22 Q. And what did you say.
23 A. And I said I didn’t know really what it was.
24 Q. And did he say anything after that.
25 A. Yeah, he told me, “You know how, like, Jesus
26 drank wine.” And I was like, “Yeah.”
27 And then he told me, “Well, we call it Jesus
28 Juice.” And then he said that -- to drink it. And 1550
1 I took a little sip, and I told him it --
2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Calls for a
3 narrative; nonresponsive; move to strike.
4 THE COURT: Strike after -- where he starts
5 to say “I took a little sip,” that’s stricken.
6 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: After Mr. Jackson handed
7 you the can and he told you that it was Jesus Juice,
8 what did you do.
9 A. I drank a little bit of it, and I told him
10 that it tasted ugly.
11 Q. And what did he say.
12 A. He said that, “It’s okay, because it will
13 relax you,” and he told me that he knows that I’m
14 all stressed out because of all the media stuff
15 that’s going on, and that the Jesus Juice will relax
16 me.
17 Q. Now, during -- do you recall how long you’d
18 been in Mr. Jackson’s suite at the time that he
19 provided the alcohol to you.
20 A. I was in there for a while. Like, it was
21 after the second meeting with him in the other room,
22 the improv thing.
23 Q. And from the time that Mr. Jackson gave you
24 the can for the first time and you tasted it, how
25 many times do you think you drank out of that can.
26 A. Well, we went -- well, after he --
27 Q. Just -- first of all, I’ll -- first of all,
28 just how many times, that you estimate. 1551
1 A. Oh, I probably drank maybe -- I don’t think
2 I drank the whole can, but I probably drank like
3 three-fourths of it or something.
4 Q. Was the can ever refilled.
5 A. I don’t think it -- I’m not sure if it was
6 refilled. I don’t think it was.
7 Q. Had you ever had wine before.
8 A. Well, in church, but that’s about it.
9 Q. Now, did you have any further conversations
10 with Mr. Jackson, other than the ones that you’ve
11 already told the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
12 about, about the wine and drinking it.
13 A. Well, we -- after he told me that, about
14 Jesus Juice or whatever, we went into the living
15 room where everybody was, like Chris was and then my
16 mom, Marie Nicole and Aldo and stuff like that, and
17 we were sitting there, and then Michael was right
18 next to me. And then I don’t think my mom knew what
19 was going on.
20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Calls for
21 speculation; narrative; nonresponsive. Move to
22 strike.
23 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor --
24 THE COURT: Just a moment.
25 What were you going to say.
26 MR. SNEDDON: I’m not going to say it now.
27 I’ll pick it up later.
28 THE COURT: The question was really if you 1552
1 had any further conversations with Mr. Jackson. You
2 need to listen to the question. Just answer the
3 question. That would have been a “yes” or “no” type
4 question. So I’ll sustain the objection and have
5 you answer that question.
6 I’ll strike the rest of his answer.
7 THE WITNESS: Yes.
8 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Where did those
9 conversations take place.
10 A. In the living room.
11 Q. And were there other people present.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And what did Mr. Jackson say to you.
14 A. He was, like, telling me to keep drinking
15 the can of the wine.
16 Q. And where were you in the living room.
17 A. I was sitting on the couch, and he was
18 sitting next to me.
19 Q. Were there other people present in the room.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Who else was around.
22 A. Chris Tucker, my mom, Aldo, Marie Nicole, my
23 brother, my sister.
24 Q. And you say you were drinking out of a can.
25 What kind of a can.
26 A. Pretty sure it was a Diet Coke can.
27 Q. And do you recall whether -- the kind of
28 wine it was. 1553
1 A. I’m pretty sure it was white wine.
2 Q. Were there -- how many occasions were you in
3 the bedroom alone with Mr. Jackson.
4 A. At Miami.
5 Q. Uh-huh.
6 A. Once.
7 Q. Were you alone with him in any other rooms
8 in his suite or complex there.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Now, when you woke up the next day, how did
11 you feel.
12 A. Well, I didn’t know if it was from the wine,
13 but I felt really -- like, my head kind of hurt and
14 I felt like I just wanted to lay down.
15 Q. Now, after -- at some point in time that
16 night when you were in Mr. Jackson’s suite -- let me
17 strike that.
18 At some point when you were in Mr. Jackson’s
19 suite, did the subject of the Bashir video come up.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Tell us in what connection it came up. Who
22 spoke about it.
23 A. It was going to be shown in America that
24 same night, and it was going to come on, and then
25 Michael didn’t want us --
26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;
27 move to strike.
28 THE WITNESS: Can I have some water. 1554
1 MR. SNEDDON: Sure. Help yourself.
2 THE COURT: All right. The last three words
3 I’ll strike, or four words, “Michael didn’t want
4 us....” He answered the question up till that
5 point.
6 THE WITNESS: I didn’t want to, like,
7 interrupt anything.
8 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.
9 Q. Now, about the Bashir filming that night,
10 did Mr. Jackson say anything.
11 A. Yeah, he said that he didn’t want --
12 Q. He said something.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right. Tell us what he said.
15 A. He said that he didn’t want to watch it on
16 T.V.
17 Q. So was anybody else interested in watching
18 it.
19 A. Yeah.
20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.
21 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.
22 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Were they allowed to watch
23 it.
24 A. Not in his room.
25 Q. At some point that night, did you see your
26 mother leave.
27 A. I think so. I think she went back to the
28 room. 1555
1 Q. Did you -- did you see her later come back
2 to the -- to Mr. Jackson’s suite, or bedroom area,
3 after she left.
4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
5 THE COURT: Overruled.
6 You may answer.
7 THE WITNESS: Yes.
8 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, at some point you left
9 Miami, correct.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And how -- when you left Miami, how -- what
12 form of transportation did you take.
13 A. It was in one of Michael’s planes.
14 Q. And how did you get to the plane.
15 A. In a limousine, I think.
16 Q. Now, who was on the plane.
17 A. Me, my brother, my sister, Marie Nicole.
18 Prince, Paris. Grace. My mom. Michael. And me.
19 So it was a pretty packed plane.
20 Q. Now, while you were on the plane, where were
21 you seated.
22 A. I sat next to Michael in the window.
23 Q. I’m sorry.
24 A. I had a window seat and Michael was sitting
25 right next to me.
26 Q. And do you recall who was sitting across
27 from you.
28 A. I think Prince and Paris were sitting in 1556
1 front of us, but then they kept on -- they got up
2 during the flight, and then other people would sit
3 there and stuff.
4 Q. So were people changing seats during the
5 flight.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you ever change seats.
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever change seats.
10 A. I think he got up for something once, but I
11 never moved from that seat.
12 Q. During the course of the flight from Miami,
13 did you ever drink any alcohol.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, who provided that alcohol to you.
16 A. Michael.
17 Q. And can you tell us in what -- what it was
18 provided to you in.
19 A. I think it was another Coke can or Diet Coke
20 can.
21 Q. And what kind of alcohol was it.
22 A. I think it was white wine again.
23 Q. And where -- did you see where Mr. Jackson
24 got the can from.
25 A. From the little place where they keep all
26 the sodas in the plane.
27 Q. Now, when -- where were you when you
28 physically drank out of the container, the can. 1557
1 A. I was next to Michael.
2 Q. And did Mr. Jackson say anything to you when
3 he gave you the can.
4 A. Yeah, he told me it was more Jesus Juice.
5 And he said that -- on the plane that -- he told me
6 about how he used to get scared about planes, and he
7 said that if I was scared and -- to drink the Jesus
8 Juice, because it will relax me.
9 Q. How much do you think you drank while you
10 were on the plane.
11 A. I think I drank the whole can.
12 Q. Was the can ever refilled.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Do you know how many times.
15 A. No.
16 Q. Were you always drinking out of the same can
17 as Mr. Jackson.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever say anything to you
20 about him providing alcohol to you.
21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
22 THE COURT: Overruled.
23 You may answer.
24 THE WITNESS: Um, yes.
25 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Will you tell us what he
26 said.
27 A. He would tell me that -- can you repeat the
28 question again. I’m sorry. 1558
1 MR. SNEDDON: Would you read it back.
2 (Record read.)
3 THE WITNESS: Yeah, he just told me that he
4 was getting it for me. I don’t really understand
5 too good.
6 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did Mr. Jackson ever give
7 you any presents.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Other than the computer.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did he ever give you any presents while you
12 were in Miami.
13 A. Well, he had, like, all these games from EA.
14 Q. I’m sorry.
15 A. EA, Electronic Arts, I think they’re called.
16 They got me a whole bunch of games. And then he let
17 me have all the games that Aldo didn’t really like.
18 Q. When you were on the plane, did Mr. Jackson
19 give you anything.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What did he give you.
22 A. As we were taking off -- well, in the hotel,
23 he also gave me a jacket. But when we were taking
24 off on the plane, he showed me a watch, and then he
25 had it on, and he told -- he gave me the watch as we
26 were taking off.
27 Q. Did he say why he gave you the watch.
28 A. He said not to tell anybody about the Jesus 1559
1 Juice, and he said that this is like a symbol that
2 we’ll be friends forever or something like that.
3 And then he gave me the watch.
4 Q. Did you have his jacket and his watch.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. During the course of the flight, were you
7 awake the entire time.
8 A. No, I don’t think so. I think I fell asleep
9 once.
10 Q. Do you have any idea how long you were out.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Is there a telephone on this plane.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And where is the telephone located.
15 A. It was, like, right next to us. Probably
16 like right here. So I was sitting -- the window was
17 here and Michael was here, and the telephone was
18 right here.
19 Q. And did you see anybody use the telephone
20 during the course of the flight.
21 A. No, I don’t think so.
22 Q. Did you use the telephone during the flight.
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. Pardon.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And what did you use the telephone for.
27 A. I called a friend of mine.
28 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I have an exhibit 1560
1 marked 343 for identification purposes, a brown bag
2 with contents, and I’ll show it to the witness. And
3 I’m also going to leave in front of the witness a
4 clear plastic bag with the number “342” on it, and
5 the contents of that bag.
6 Q. Gavin, would you take a look at -- just look
7 inside and see if you recognize the item in 343.
8 A. Yes. I recognize the item.
9 Q. What is it.
10 A. It’s a jacket that Michael gave me in Miami.
11 MR. SNEDDON: Move that it be admitted into
12 evidence, Your Honor.
13 MR. MESEREAU: No objection, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
15 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. Could you just,
16 Gavin, stand up, and just put the jacket out so that
17 the ladies and gentlemen can see the jacket, the
18 front and the back.
19 Thank you.
20 Now, the next exhibit in front of you is a
21 clear plastic bag.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And what’s the number on that exhibit.
24 A. 342.
25 Q. All right. Do you recognize the contents of
26 People’s 342.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And what is that. 1561
1 A. This is the watch that Michael gave me right
2 before the plane took off.
3 MR. SNEDDON: Move that it be admitted into
4 evidence, Your Honor.
5 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.
6 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
7 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Yeah, why don’t you --
8 A. Give it to you.
9 Q. No, just stand up and show it to them.
10 Okay. Now I’m going to ask you a question
11 about the watch. With regard to that particular
12 watch, did Mr. Jackson make any statements to you
13 about the value of the watch when he gave it to you.
14 A. He told me that it was $75,000.
15 Q. Now, did you keep that watch.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. At some point, did you give that watch to
18 somebody.
19 A. Yeah. I think I gave it to Tom.
20 Q. To me.
21 A. I mean -- no, Larry.
22 Q. Larry.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you know who Larry is.
25 A. Larry Feldman, I think.
26 Q. And do you remember when that was. Had you
27 left Neverland for the last time.
28 A. Yes. 1562
1 Q. And that’s -- and after that, you gave the
2 watch to him.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Now, when you were at Neverland Ranch, did
5 anybody ever ask you to give the watch back.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
7 THE COURT: Overruled.
8 You may answer.
9 THE WITNESS: No.
10 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, let’s go back to the
11 flight just a second, if we can. All right.
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. Where was your brother Star on the plane.
14 A. He was walking around on the plane.
15 Q. Did you ever see Star drink out of the soda
16 can.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Tell the jury what happened.
19 A. We called my brother Star over, and Michael
20 asked him if he knew what Jesus Juice was. And then
21 we gave him the can and we just told him to drink
22 it. And then when he drank it, he said that it
23 tasted bad, and so, like -- I don’t know. That’s
24 what happened.
25 Q. Did you see the expression on his face when
26 he drank it.
27 A. Yeah, he acted like it was a gross-tasting
28 taste, face. I don’t know how to say it. 1563
1 MR. SNEDDON: I have another exhibit we’re
2 going to spend a little time with.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay.
4 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, this exhibit is -
5 I’m sorry, Counsel - 344 for identification
6 purposes. I’m going to hand this to the witness.
7 And why don’t you hand me those two things right
8 there.
9 Take that. And here’s a pen. Don’t do
10 anything yet.
11 Q. All right. Do you recognize the exhibit
12 that I’ve just placed in front of you.
13 A. Yeah, it looks like the inside of the plane
14 that we were in.
15 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Your Honor, I’m
16 going to move that be admitted into evidence for the
17 purpose of illustrating his testimony.
18 MR. MESEREAU: I have no objection.
19 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
20 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. We’re going to put a
21 diagram on the board -- on the Elmo in just a
22 second.
23 This is a laser.
24 THE WITNESS: Okay.
25 MR. SNEDDON: Go ahead. Put it up.
26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: It should be coming up.
27 THE BAILIFF: It will take a moment.
28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. Gavin -- 1564
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. -- I want you to look up on the board, and
3 ask if you can show the ladies and gentlemen of the
4 jury where you were seated on the plane.
5 Okay. So you’re indicating in the middle of
6 the diagram, correct.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Now, on the chart that’s in front of you -
9 okay. - 344 --
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. -- I want you to take that pen I gave you
12 and I want you to put your initials in the seat that
13 you’ve just showed to the ladies and gentlemen of
14 the jury.
15 Now, I want you to show the ladies and
16 gentlemen of the jury where Mr. Jackson was seated,
17 sitting.
18 Okay. It’s the one right next to you,
19 closest to the aisle; is that correct.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Would you put an “MJ” on the seat where he
22 was located.
23 Now, do you recall where your brother Star
24 was sitting at the time that he was offered the can
25 with the alcohol in it by Mr. Jackson.
26 A. I don’t think he was sitting. He was
27 standing, and he was --
28 Q. Where was he standing. 1565
1 A. Right there.
2 Q. Right in that area.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Would you put your brother’s initials -- and
5 by “that area,” you’re meaning in the aisle at the
6 end of the table, correct.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. Just put your brother’s initials
9 where you....
10 Now, do you remember where your mom was
11 sitting.
12 A. I think she was sitting over here somewhere.
13 Q. Okay. Move the diagram, if you would. Do
14 you think she was down there.
15 A. Yeah, I think so.
16 Q. Okay. Put your mother’s initials in there,
17 if you would. And by “there,” we mean on the upper
18 side of the diagram with the chair that’s the
19 farthest to the left.
20 A. Okay. What do I put. “JJ” or --
21 Q. “JA.”
22 Do you remember where any other of the
23 people on the plane were sitting.
24 A. I’m not sure, but Prince and Paris started
25 out right there. And then I think Grace was in
26 there.
27 Q. Okay. Why don’t you -- where you say Prince
28 and Paris were, put two “P’s” on your diagram, 344. 1566
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. And you mentioned a person by the name of
3 Grace. Who is that, to your knowledge.
4 A. It’s like -- like Prince and Paris’s
5 guardian lady.
6 Q. Okay. So why don’t you put a “G” where you
7 think that the individual you knew as Grace was
8 sitting.
9 All right. Anybody else. Do you remember
10 where Aldo and Marie Nicole were sitting.
11 A. I’m not sure. I think they might have been
12 sitting on those things.
13 Q. On the area in blue.
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. I don’t know.
17 Q. But you’re not sure.
18 A. No.
19 Q. Okay. And how about your sister.
20 A. I think she was sitting there.
21 Q. Was she there the whole time.
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did you see where she moved to.
24 A. I don’t know. I’d just see her pass by. We
25 were all sitting sometimes.
26 Q. You indicated for your sister a seat that’s
27 up on the front part of the left side of the diagram
28 on the lower side of the plane, correct. 1567
1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. All right. Why don’t you put your sister’s
3 initials in there, then.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. All right. I think we’re done with that.
6 A. Okay.
7 MR. SNEDDON: We can turn the lights back
8 on, Your Honor.
9 Put the cap on the pen, if you would,
10 please. Thanks, Gavin.
11 Q. Gavin, do you know what it means to be
12 intoxicated.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What’s that mean, in your words.
15 A. When you have a lot of alcohol in your
16 system.
17 Q. When you were on the plane, did you feel
18 intoxicated.
19 A. I don’t know. I don’t think so. Well,
20 maybe a little.
21 Q. Okay. Do you remember when you landed in
22 the plane whether it was daylight or dark outside.
23 A. I think it was -- it was dark.
24 Q. And when you landed, where did you go.
25 A. We went to Neverland.
26 Q. And how did you get there.
27 A. Michael had, like, this big SUV, white,
28 limousine. 1568
1 Q. And when you got to Neverland Ranch, where
2 did you spend the night.
3 A. I’m pretty sure we spent the night in
4 Michael’s room.
5 Q. You say “we.” Who is “we”.
6 A. Me and my brother.
7 Q. Do you remember if anything happened that
8 particular night.
9 A. When we got there, me and my brother ran
10 straight to the carts, because we wanted to ride the
11 carts, drive the carts around. But then we went to
12 Michael’s room and we slept there, and we all slept
13 in the bed together.
14 Q. In whose bed.
15 A. Michael’s.
16 Q. Now, are you familiar with a person by the
17 name of Jesus.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And where did you meet Jesus.
20 A. At the ranch.
21 Q. And to your knowledge, what was Mr. -- what
22 was Jesus’s responsibility.
23 A. I think he was like the manager of the
24 ranch.
25 Q. Now, after you got back from Miami and you
26 were on Neverland Ranch - okay. - at some point did
27 Jesus take you somewhere.
28 A. Yes. 1569
1 Q. Where did he take you.
2 A. He took us back to my grandma’s house.
3 Q. When you say he took “us,” who is “us”.
4 A. Me, my mom, my brother, my sister.
5 Q. Now, I want to talk about some things that
6 happened between the time that you got back from
7 Miami and you went to the ranch --
8 A. Uh-huh.
9 Q. -- okay. -- till the time that Mr. Salas,
10 I’m sorry, that Jesus took you to your grandmother’s
11 place, okay.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. Now, you told us that the first time that
14 night you spent in Mr. Jackson’s room and you slept
15 in his bed, along with your brother and Mr. Jackson.
16 From the time you got back from Miami till the time
17 you left with Jesus, where did you sleep.
18 A. Can you repeat the question. I’m sorry.
19 Q. Uh-huh. From the time you got back from
20 Miami and you went to the ranch --
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. -- okay. -- till the time you left with
23 Jesus - all right. - where did you sleep.
24 A. Whenever Michael was there, we would all
25 sleep in Michael’s room.
26 Q. Was Mr. Jackson there during that time
27 period.
28 A. Yeah. 1570
1 Q. During the time after you got to the ranch,
2 when the limousine took you from the airport to
3 Neverland Valley Ranch, till the time you left with
4 Jesus, did you ever have any more alcohol.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. On how many occasions.
7 A. Every night that Michael was there.
8 Q. All right. Do you remember where you drank.
9 A. We would -- like, in the arcade, because
10 that’s where the wine cellar was. Well, it’s kind
11 of like a wine cellar.
12 Q. You say “we.” Who’s “we”.
13 A. Me, my brother, Michael mainly.
14 Q. And how did you get into the wine cellar.
15 A. Michael would take us there.
16 Q. Can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the
17 jury, just describe how you get down there.
18 A. Okay. In the back of the main house,
19 there’s an arcade. And then, like, you walk across,
20 and there’s a pool to the right, and then you go
21 inside the arcade.
22 And then, like, there’s this jukebox, and
23 then you have to move the jukebox. And then you
24 walk down these stairs, and there’s a door that you
25 open. It’s kind of like to the right. And then you
26 walk in there, and there’s no alcohol in the first
27 room. There’s, like, sleeping bags, I think, like a
28 little green couch. 1571
1 And then you walk through, and then to the
2 right there’s another door, and then there’s like
3 this hallway kind of thing, and then that’s where,
4 like, all the alcohol was, in refrigerators and
5 stuff like that.
6 Q. And who was it that took you down to that
7 area the first time.
8 A. Michael.
9 Q. Did you ever go down there without Mr.
10 Jackson.
11 A. No. Well, we went down there once. That
12 was just because we wanted to, like, look at the
13 little green thing that they had there with all the
14 trees and stuff on there. It was kind of like a
15 model thing.
16 Q. Did you ever go down there and drink any
17 alcohol without Mr. Jackson being present.
18 A. No.
19 Q. And you said “we” went down there to look at
20 these little green things. Who was it that went
21 with you.
22 A. Me and my brother.
23 Q. Was it a time when Mr. Jackson was on the
24 ranch.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Now, were there any other locations on the
27 ranch where you drank with Mr. Jackson.
28 A. Yes. 1572
1 Q. Where.
2 A. In his office and in his room.
3 Q. And would this be during the same time
4 period we’re talking about, from the time period
5 from when you got there from Miami till the time you
6 left with Jesus.
7 A. If it happened.
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Was there ever any occasion that you drank
11 something other than wine.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Tell us what it was.
14 A. I drank Bacardi, vodka and Jim Bean.
15 Q. Jim what.
16 A. Jim Bean, I think it was called.
17 Q. Did you say “bean”.
18 A. Bean.
19 Q. Can you spell it.
20 A. B-e-a-n.
21 Q. Okay. And who provided you with the
22 Bacardi.
23 A. Michael.
24 Q. Who provided you with the Jim Bean.
25 A. Michael.
26 Q. And who provided you with the vodka.
27 A. Michael.
28 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever say anything to you 1573
1 about drinking and providing this alcohol to you.
2 A. No, he just said, like, well, it’s Jesus
3 Juice and it was okay because Jesus drank it, and
4 stuff like that.
5 Q. Did you ever tell Mr. Jackson that you only
6 had one kidney.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And did you ever tell Mr. Jackson anything
9 about alcohol and your kidney.
10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
11 THE COURT: Sustained.
12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you ever have a
13 conversation with Mr. Jackson about your kidneys.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Kidney.
16 A. Kidney, yeah.
17 Q. Sorry. What did you tell him.
18 A. I told him that it was bad for me to drink
19 alcohol. And he said it’s okay; that it’s fine;
20 that nothing’s going to happen.
21 Q. Do you recall how many occasions you had
22 that conversation with Mr. Jackson.
23 A. I think like three times.
24 Q. I couldn’t hear you.
25 A. Maybe like three times.
26 Q. And where was it when you had these
27 conversations with Mr. Jackson.
28 A. I think once was in the office and the other 1574
1 two times were in kind of like the wine cellar
2 thing.
3 Q. Were there times that you went down to the
4 wine cellar where your brother wasn’t present.
5 A. It was just me and Michael.
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. How many times do you think that just you
9 and Michael went down to the wine cellar. Now, I
10 want to stay -- that was a bad question. Let me
11 just start over again. Okay.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. I want to focus on the time where you got
14 there from Miami and the limo took you to the ranch
15 till the time that you left with Jesus, okay.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. Did you ever go to the wine cellar with just
18 you and Mr. Jackson.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And on how many occasions was it just you
21 and Mr. Jackson in the wine cellar.
22 A. Not many. But, like, maybe five times
23 between Miami and Jesus.
24 Q. During the time that you were there from
25 Miami to Jesus, did you ever drink in the bedroom.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. How many times do you think that was.
28 A. A lot, because we would sleep in his room, 1575
1 and then we would take the Jesus Juice up there.
2 Q. So you’d take the stuff up there to drink.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Now, let me ask you a question: Do you know
5 what the term “crank call” means.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Tell the jury what “crank call” means.
8 A. When you call, like, a person that doesn’t
9 know you, and you, like, say something or make fun
10 of them and it will make you laugh, the people that
11 are making the phone call.
12 Q. Did you ever make any crank calls from Mr.
13 Jackson’s residence.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Where were you when you made them.
16 A. In his room mainly.
17 Q. Was there anybody else present.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who.
20 A. My brother.
21 Q. And anybody else.
22 A. Aldo.
23 Q. Anybody else.
24 A. Michael. I guess that’s it. Yeah, that’s
25 it.
26 Q. Did anybody else make any crank calls
27 besides you.
28 A. We were all making crank calls. 1576
1 Q. You say “we were all.” Who do you mean by
2 “we”.
3 A. Aldo, Michael, me, my brother.
4 Q. And in connection with making these calls,
5 was there anything that -- do you know what it means
6 when the call doesn’t go through, you don’t get
7 somebody.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What happened when you did that.
10 A. Oh, this happened once. We had this big --
11 like, it was a bottle of wine, it was like that big.
12 And we made up this game. If you make a phone call
13 and, like, we would dial random numbers, and if it
14 rang and nobody picked up, you have to take a big
15 gulp of wine. Because we didn’t really like how it
16 tasted, so we made up that game.
17 Q. “So” what.
18 A. We didn’t really like how it tasted, so we
19 made that game up so we would have a drink, a gulp
20 of wine, if the call didn’t go through.
21 Q. Did anybody have to drink because the call
22 didn’t go through that night.
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. You have that look on your face like it was
25 you.
26 A. Yeah, it was me.
27 Q. Anybody else.
28 A. I think my brother once or twice. It’s 1577
1 because, like, I would always -- because I kind of
2 liked making crank calls, so I would make a lot of
3 them, and so then a lot of them wouldn’t go through.
4 Q. During the time you were at the ranch again,
5 from the time you got there in the limo till the
6 time you left with Jesus, do you know where your
7 mother was staying.
8 A. In her unit.
9 Q. In her what.
10 A. In her unit that they gave her.
11 Q. And did you ever go visit her.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. How many times do you think you visited her.
14 A. Like, three times a week.
15 Q. And did you have -- don’t tell us what she
16 said, just tell us -- I want to know, did you have
17 any conversations with her.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with her
20 about leaving.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you want to leave, you personally.
23 A. Not really, because I was kind of having
24 fun.
25 Q. Could you describe your mother’s demeanor or
26 attitude during the time that you’d visit her.
27 A. She was scared and she wanted to leave, and
28 she was -- 1578
1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Move to strike;
2 nonresponsive.
3 THE COURT: The last part of the answer is
4 stricken after “she was scared.”
5 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I believe that I’m
6 offering the second part of it with regard to
7 conduct in conformance with the state of mind. It
8 was an exception.
9 THE COURT: The question was, “Could you
10 describe your mother’s demeanor or attitude.” Which
11 he then started describing her actions, so it’s
12 nonresponsive.
13 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I’ll break it up.
14 Q. Did your mother tell you that she wanted to
15 leave.
16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay; and
17 leading.
18 THE COURT: Further foundation would be
19 necessary.
20 MR. SNEDDON: All right.
21 Q. Were -- the conversations that you had with
22 your mother, where were they.
23 A. They were usually in her room.
24 Q. And how did the topics about her being
25 scared come up. Don’t tell us what was --
26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection.
27 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just tell us who brought
28 the subject matter up. 1579
1 A. She did.
2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation;
3 leading.
4 THE COURT: Overruled. Proceed with the
5 foundation.
6 MR. SNEDDON: I’m sorry.
7 Q. Who brought them up.
8 A. My mom.
9 Q. And were there any other persons present.
10 A. No, I don’t think so.
11 Q. During those conversations -- how many
12 conversations do you think you had with her about
13 the fact that she was scared.
14 A. Like every time I would go there.
15 Q. During those conversations, did she tell you
16 anything about whether or not she wanted to be on
17 the ranch.
18 A. Yes.
19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay;
20 foundation.
21 THE COURT: Overruled. State of mind.
22 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: You may answer.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. What did she tell you.
25 A. She told me that she was afraid that they
26 were going to kill us, and then that she wanted to
27 leave.
28 Q. Now, when you got back to the ranch -- back 1580
1 to the ranch, Neverland Valley Ranch, after you came
2 from Miami - okay. -- I think there’s a better way.
3 Let me do it this way.
4 Your Honor, I’m just going to -- instead of
5 showing them on the overhead, I’m just going to show
6 them to the witness because they’ve been up so many
7 times already, with the Court’s permission.
8 THE COURT: All right.
9 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me, are they all in
10 evidence.
11 MR. SNEDDON: Yes. No, I’d show you
12 anything new.
13 Q. I’m going to show you a photograph. I’ll
14 just put these in front of you. Okay.
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. I’ll show you a photograph marked
17 People’s 28. Do you recognize the person in that
18 photograph.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Who is that.
21 A. Jamie Masada.
22 Q. All right. Why don’t you turn the next one
23 over. Just show it to the jury, if you would, for
24 just a second.
25 All right. Do you recognize the person
26 depicted in that photograph.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Who is that. 1581
1 A. Dieter.
2 Q. Okay. Turn it over.
3 The next one, what’s the number on that.
4 A. 18.
5 Q. 18. And who is that.
6 A. Ronald.
7 Q. Okay. Turn it over.
8 And the next one. All right. Who is that,
9 and what’s the number on that. Is that 20.
10 A. 20.
11 Q. All right. Who is that.
12 A. Frank.
13 Q. Turn that one down.
14 Does Frank have a last name, that you know
15 of.
16 A. Tyson.
17 Q. All right. The next one is what number.
18 21.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. All right. Who’s that.
21 A. Aldo.
22 Q. All right. Why don’t you turn that one
23 over.
24 And the last one is 22.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And who is that.
27 A. That’s Marie Nicole.
28 Q. All right. Just go ahead and turn that one 1582
1 over.
2 Now, let me ask you a question about the
3 people you’ve identified as Dieter and Ronald.
4 Okay.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Now, when you got back from -- from Miami
7 and you went to the ranch - okay. - and before you
8 left with Jesus, same time period --
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. -- did you see either Dieter or Ronald at
11 Neverland Valley Ranch.
12 A. No, I don’t think so.
13 Q. Did you ever see them at the ranch.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. When do you think you saw them there.
16 A. I think I saw them when we came back when --
17 after we left with Jesus.
18 Q. Now, you’ve identified the photograph of Mr.
19 Tyson.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And did you see Mr. Tyson at the ranch.
22 A. I don’t know. I don’t think so.
23 Q. During the entire time you were there, you
24 don’t recall seeing him.
25 A. Yeah, I remember seeing him there at
26 Neverland.
27 Q. Oh, okay. Do you recall when it was you saw
28 him there. 1583
1 A. I don’t remember the first time.
2 Q. Do you remember on how many occasions you
3 saw him there.
4 A. No. But I saw him there a lot. Well --
5 Q. I can’t hear you.
6 A. No, but I saw him there.
7 Q. Did you ever see -- the two people that you
8 talked about there, Dieter and Ronald - okay. --
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. -- were they at the ranch at the same time
11 as Mr. Jackson.
12 A. Yes, I believe so.
13 Q. Did you ever see them together.
14 A. I think so. I did once or twice.
15 Q. All right. You left with the person you’ve
16 identified to the jury as a person by the name of
17 Jesus. Do you recall that.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you told us you went to your
20 grandparents’ place. What time was it when you left
21 with Jesus.
22 A. Late at night.
23 Q. And do you recall who it was that -- well,
24 was it the person you knew as Jesus who did the
25 driving.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. When you got to your grandparents’ place,
28 did you ever go back to Neverland Valley Ranch after 1584
1 that.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And do you recall how many days there were
4 in between the time you left and the time you went
5 back.
6 A. I’m not sure. I think a few days.
7 Q. Do you ever recall, during the time that you
8 were off of the ranch, having a telephone
9 conversation with Frank Tyson.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And where were you when you received -- when
12 you participated in that telephone conversation.
13 A. I’m not sure.
14 Q. Do you recall who else was present during
15 the conversation.
16 A. My mom.
17 Q. And did you talk to Mr. Tyson.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And what did Mr. Tyson say to you.
20 And it’s offered under 1223, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: All right. I’m accepting this
22 testimony conditionally, as before.
23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection noted, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Noted.
25 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.
26 THE WITNESS: He was telling me about that
27 they were scared that something was going to happen
28 to me, and that they were worried, and they wanted 1585
1 us to come back up, stuff like that.
2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you ever make any
3 complaints to Mr. Tyson.
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. And what complaint did you make to Mr.
6 Tyson.
7 A. That I didn’t like the -- Dieter and Ronald.
8 Q. And why did you say that.
9 A. Because they had my mom worried, really.
10 And my mom was scared of them, so....
11 Q. Where was it that your mom had contact with
12 Dieter and Ronald.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
14 THE COURT: Sustained.
15 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Do you know where it was
16 that your mother had contact with Ronald or Dieter.
17 A. Now that I think back, I think it was at
18 Neverland, so I think they were there before we left
19 with Jesus. Or it could have been a phone call.
20 Q. I couldn’t -- all right. So you -- you
21 voiced a complaint to Mr. Tyson on the phone.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And what did Mr. Tyson say to you about the
24 complaint. Do you recall anything.
25 A. He said that we’ll never have to see them
26 again.
27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, hearsay.
28 MR. SNEDDON: Offered for the same purpose, 1586
1 Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: All right. I’ll allow the
3 testimony under the conditional admittance of
4 hearsay that I’ve ruled on before.
5 I’m a little concerned, though. It’s not
6 clear to me --
7 MR. SNEDDON: How about if I go back and ask
8 a clarifying question. I think I know where the
9 Court’s going.
10 THE COURT: All right.
11 MR. SNEDDON: I might be able to help the
12 Court.
13 Q. You told the ladies and gentlemen of the
14 jury that you had a telephone conversation with
15 Mr. Tyson at some point after you had left the ranch
16 with Jesus; is that correct.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And that your mother was present during that
19 conversation.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And that you personally talked to Mr. Tyson.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. All right. Now, you were about to tell us
24 something that Mr. Tyson said, and I believe -- if
25 you could do that.
26 And again, it’s offered for the same reason,
27 Your Honor.
28 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay. 1587
1 THE COURT: I’ll admit it conditionally.
2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Go ahead.
3 A. He just told me that I would never have to
4 see them again.
5 Q. See “them,” meaning who.
6 A. Dieter and Ronald.
7 Q. Now, at some point you went back to the
8 ranch --
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. -- is that correct.
11 And do you recall how you got back there.
12 A. I’m not too sure.
13 Q. Who went back with you.
14 A. Me, my mom, my brother, my sister.
15 Q. And when you got back to the ranch, do you
16 recall whether -- what time of the day or night it
17 was.
18 A. No.
19 Q. When you got back to the ranch, do you
20 recall whether or not you saw Dieter or Ronald.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you recall where they were when you saw
23 them.
24 A. I think I saw Dieter in the kitchen sitting
25 on the stool thing. And he’s saying that we were
26 going to, like, go to --
27 Q. You’re going to have to talk into that and
28 not mumble. 1588
1 A. And he told us that he wanted to, like, go
2 to Australia or Brazil, or something like that, for
3 a vacation.
4 Q. Do you know whether or not your mom remained
5 on the ranch, or left that night or that day that
6 you got back.
7 A. I think that was the day that she went down
8 to see my now stepdad.
9 Q. I can’t hear you.
10 A. I think that was the day that she went down
11 to go see my now stepdad.
12 Q. Now, during the time that you were at
13 Neverland Valley Ranch, you’ve told us that you were
14 in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom and in his bed, correct.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Now, how do you get into Mr. Jackson’s
17 bedroom.
18 A. You walk through these big double doors, and
19 then -- and then you walk to the other door, and
20 then you punch in a code, and then there are two
21 other double doors, the little lock goes off, and
22 then you can open the door, and then -- and that’s
23 his room.
24 Q. Now, are there any -- does anything go off
25 when you get to a certain point --
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. -- that you’re walking down the hallway.
28 A. Yes. 1589
Subject: March 10, 2005 
Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:43 pm
