Debbie Rowe Testimony, April 2005
What kind of work was that that you were
doing for Mr. Klein?
A. He’s a dermatologist. I was an assistant
Q. For what period of time were you his
10 A. From 1979 to 2000 or 2001.
11 Q. What kind of work did you do for Mr. –
12 Dr. Klein?
13 A. I assisted him with surgeries and patients.
Q. You then had a conversation with Ronald
13 Konitzer as well?
14 A. For a brief moment. Michael was with him.
15 Q. Did Michael Jackson then get on the
17 A. Yes, he did.
18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
19 THE COURT: Overruled.
20 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What did Mr. Jackson say to
21 you in the course of this conversation?
22 A. He told me there was a video coming out, and
23 it was full of lies, and would I help. And I said,
24 as always, yes. I asked him if he was okay. I was
25 very upset.
26 Q. When was the last time you had talked with
27 Michael Jackson?
28 A. The day of our divorce. 7940
And how long prior to that, to this
2 conversation you’re now referring to, was that day
3 of your divorce?
4 A. October 12th.
5 Q. Of what year, please?
6 A. .99.
7 Q. All right. So we’re now talking about
8 February of 2003; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now, he asked you for some kind of
11 assistance; is that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What exactly did he ask you to do, if
15 A. He asked if I would work with Ronald and
16 Dieter to help him, and I said yes. And I asked him
17 how he was. I asked him how the children were. And
18 I asked if I could see them when everything settled
20 Q. What did he tell you?
21 A. He said yes.
22 Q. All right. Had you had any communication
23 with Mr. Jackson in the preceding period of time
24 with regards to the children?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Had you sent any letters to him at all
27 requesting that you be able to see them at some
28 point in time? 7941
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did you want to see the children?
3 A. Very much.
4 Q. All right. The conversation that you had
5 with Mr. Jackson over the telephone, did he tell you
6 from where he was calling?
7 A. No. I was told by Marc that they had to
8 call Europe.
MR. ZONEN: Why did you do this interview?
MS. ROWE: I promised him that I would always be there for him and the children.
MR. ZONEN: All right. During the course of your being at the house conducting
this interview, did you talk with Mr. Schaffel any further about your children?
MS. ROWE: Yes.
MR. ZONEN: All right. What did he say with regards to your children while you
were at his house?
MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
MR. ZONEN: Same exception. I will add also it’s a statement in furtherance.
THE COURT: I reject that as a reason, but let me look. All right. I’ll allow the
question for the limited purpose of explaining her action after that. Do you
want the question read back?
MS. ROWE: I can’t see that far, yes, please.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. ROWE: That they were fine; that Michael was going to be okay; that it was — he was happy for me that we were all going to get to see each other again, and how big the kids have gotten, and how beautiful they were, and how strong-headed Paris is and — about like me.
MR. ZONEN: What was your expectation with regards to your children in terms of your completing this interview?
MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading; foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. ZONEN: Did you have any expectations with regard to your kids at all?
MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. ROWE: Yes.
MR. ZONEN: What was that? What were your expectations?
MS. ROWE: To be reintroduced to them and to be reacquainted with their dad.
MR. ZONEN: You wanted to be reacquainted with Mr. Jackson as well?
MS. ROWE: Yes.
MR. ZONEN: Why?
MS. ROWE: He’s my friend.
MR. ZONEN: When was the last time you had actually seen Mr. Jackson related to your two oldest children?
MS. ROWE: The day that we signed our divorce papers.
MR. ZONEN: Did you have any information at all about his parenting skills with your children?
MS. ROWE: Just — yes, I did. I — when I was seeing the children, I spoke with
the nannies before we divorced. I saw him with the children. I’ve seen him with the kids the whole time I’ve known him.
At this time, Judge Melville declared the court in recess until the following
morning at 8:30 a.m. Court was adjourned at 2:30 p.m.
MR. ZONEN: How did you approach this
13 interview in terms of your affect?
14 A. I was excited to do it.
15 Q. Why?
16 A. Because I would get to see my children and
17 possibly renew a relationship with Mr. Jackson.
18 Q. Why did you want to do that?
19 A. They’re my family.
20 Q. Did you consider them your family?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you consider Mr. Jackson to be your
23 family to the same extent as your children?
24 A. I don’t think anyone is as much as your
25 children, but, yes.
Q. When was the last time you had been to
12 A. Years. I couldn’t tell you. Probably .99,
. Okay. And I believe you said yesterday
2 you’ve stayed his friend, right?
3 A. I’ve always considered him my friend.
4 Q. And you still do, right?
5 A. Yeah. If he’d talk to me. Sorry.
6 Q. And without question, the communicating
7 through lawyers has created problems with –
8 A. Have you met Mr. Hall? Extreme problems.
9 Q. Okay. Okay. You’re blaming the lawyers for
10 a lot of that, right?
In that interview, what kind of a person did
27 you say Michael was?
28 A. Generous. To a fault. Giving and kind. 8019
1 Q. Anything else do you recall saying?
2 A. Good father. Great with kids. Put other
3 people ahead of him. Things like that.
4 Q. If you can, do you remember anything else
5 you said about Michael?
6 A. He’s a brilliant businessman. There’s
7 different Michaels. There’s, like, my Michael.
8 Q. Do you want some water?
9 A. And the Michael that everyone else sees.
10 Q. And that would be the public Michael?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. That would be Michael the entertainer,
14 A. Michael the entertainer, yeah.
15 Q. When did you first meet Michael?
16 A. In the .80s.
17 Q. And how did you meet Michael?
18 A. Through my office when I worked with Dr.
20 Q. Okay. And what was your position with Dr.
21 Klein at the time?
22 A. I was an assistant.
23 Q. And Michael went to Dr. Klein for various
24 treatments, right?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And do you recall when he first went to Dr.
28 A. Yes. The very first day, yes. I was not 8020
1 his nurse then.
HE WITNESS: Sorry.
4 THE COURT: Stricken.
5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Let me try and ask it
6 again. What was the first tour that you went on
7 with Michael?
8 A. “Dangerous.”
9 Q. And approximately when was that?
10 A. I don’t remember. That was — all those
11 tours. And they all just ran together, because it
12 was a long schedule.
13 Q. Okay. Was it in the .80s or .90s; do you
15 A. I think it was in the early .90s.
16 Q. Okay. And where did that tour go to?
17 A. I think it started in Bangkok, and went
18 throughout Asia, Japan, Singapore. Then there was a
19 break. And then it went to Europe.
20 I did go to the last concert in Gutenberg, I
21 think on the tour previous to that. Because
22 Gutenberg wasn’t on the “Dangerous” tour.
23 Q. And were you traveling with Michael along
24 with his physician?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Okay. And you then went on another tour
27 after that?
28 A. Yes. 8022
1 Q. And what tour was that?
2 A. “History.”
3 Q. Okay. And approximately when was that?
4 A. It seemed like it was right after
5 “Dangerous,” within a year or two after “Dangerous.”
6 It could have been a little bit longer than that.
7 Q. And you were on that tour along with the
8 physician as well, right?
9 A. We were married when that was going on.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. So, no. Klein would come every once in a
12 while, but I was there every three weeks to see
13 little Michael and Michael and to see how everybody
14 was, because I was still working. I couldn’t more
15 often than that.
20 Q. I mean, your first time you ever met Mr.
21 Sneddon was the early .90s, wasn’t it?
22 A. I don’t remember. I remember I did a
23 deposition. I thought it was for a woman. I don’t
24 remember. I don’t remember any of that part. I
25 tend to block out unpleasantries. I don’t remember
26 any of that part. I don’t remember if Mr. Sneddon
27 was there or not.
28 Q. Okay. 8023
Did you ever see Ronald Konitzer
18 interact with Michael Jackson?
19 A. Not since I had met him in Europe on tour
20 years before.
21 Q. So you’re talking about conversations that
22 may have taken place when, in the early .90s?
23 A. Yes.
Q. All right. Do you still like Michael
27 A. I have very strong memories and feelings for
28 the Michael that I have known but haven’t seen since
1 1999. But those are based on my feelings. We
2 haven’t spoken.
3 Q. All right. Is it the case that the sum
4 total of your communication with Mr. Jackson since
5 1999, six years ago, was a two-and-a-half-minute
6 conversation that you described?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And that was a conversation where he asked
9 you to participate in this video; is that correct?
10 A. To work with Ronald, Dieter, and Marc.
11 Q. Is it clear to you that he understood that
12 you wanted to see your children?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right. Did he ever call you to say
15 that –
16 A. No.
17 Q. — or to invite you up to come see the
19 A. No, he didn’t.
20 Q. Who do you believe is responsible for your
21 not being able to see the children?
22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Relevance;
24 THE COURT: Overruled.
25 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: You can answer the question.
26 A. He’s their father. Ultimately it’s his
27 decision. I don’t want to believe that. I want to
28 believe that it’s other people. I want to believe
1 it’s Marc Schaffel threatening him that I want to
2 take the children, things like that.
BY MR. ZONEN: Tell us, in your opinion, who
9 is responsible at this time for your not being able
10 to have access to your children?
11 MR. MESEREAU: Same objection.
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 THE WITNESS: When I was first promised to
14 see the kids, when Michael — he called me, for me
15 to show up when they were at that age of three and
16 four, four and five, I could be introduced as a
17 friend, as a friend of daddy’s. And you don’t
18 confuse a child by saying, “Oh, this is your
20 I can’t do that now. They’re too old. To
21 do something like that, it would be too traumatic.
22 I would not walk in and say, “Hey, I’m your mom,”
23 you know, “Want to go out?”
24 It’s — it’s so much more complicated than
25 that when reintroducing yourself to children who may
26 or may not remember me.
27 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Are you saying that you
28 believe that Mr. Jackson is amenable to your seeing
1 your children; it’s just a question of how?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;
3 argumentative; no foundation.
4 MR. ZONEN: It’s impeachment, Your Honor, as
5 to the leading issue
6 MR. MESEREAU: Improper opinion.
7 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
8 Do you want the question read back?
9 THE WITNESS: No. Thank you.
10 I’m hoping in my heart that he is. But we
11 haven’t spoken, so I don’t know. I get to deal with
12 Abrams and Hall.
BY MR. ZONEN: Why do you believe he hasn’t
14 spoken with you?
15 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading;
16 argumentative; foundation; relevance.
17 THE COURT: Overruled.
18 THE WITNESS: I don’t know if he is
19 concerned about this case. I don’t know what his
20 concerns are, if he thinks I’m going to take the
21 children from him. I don’t know. I haven’t spoken
22 to him. I don’t know.
And did you feel Dieter was trying to hurt
15 Michael and also your children?
16 A. I think they’re opportunistic vultures.
17 Q. Would that be Dieter, Konitzer and Schaffel?
18 A. Okay. You can do them alphabetically if
19 you’d like.
20 Q. You’re talking about the three of them,
22 A. All of them.
23 Q. Who else are you referring to as vultures,
24 besides those three?
25 A. If it’s a personal opinion, does it count?
26 MR. ZONEN: I’m going to object as beyond
27 the scope of the direct examination and speculative
28 and improper opinion. 8011
1 THE COURT: Sounds like she’s got a long
2 list. I think I’ll sustain the objection.
4 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
MR. ZONEN: Did you know Frank Cascio?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. How did you know Frank Cascio?
23 A. I met his family years ago.
24 Q. Years ago?
25 A. Yeah.
26 Q. How old was Frank Cascio when you met his
28 A. It was just after little Michael had been
1 born. He must have been middle teens maybe. He was
2 the oldest of the boys.
3 Q. You didn’t know him as a person who was
4 involved in Mr. Jackson’s relationships or business
6 A. No.
7 Q. He was a teenager?
8 A. This is years ago. We’re talking –
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. Yeah. No, no, no.
11 Q. Did he visit Mr. Jackson regularly?
12 A. The family came up — I knew him with the
13 family, when Mr. and Mrs. Cascio were there with the
14 kids, with the boys.
15 Q. Did you understand Frank Cascio’s
16 relationship with Michael Jackson to be very close?
17 A. He was close with all the Cascios.