1 liberal approach to this? A conservative approach?
2 Can you explain what you were asked to do?
3 A. I looked at all the documents submitted to
4 me, and there were a lot of documents I looked at.
5 And I didn’t see, in my opinion, the relevancy of
6 those documents. There was just a check from Jay
7 Jackson’s account to American Express, but it
8 didn’t -- I mean, that’s all I had. To me, that’s a
9 meaningless check. The --
10 Q. Let me stop you there, if I could, just so
11 we can pick up on that point. In other words, you
12 saw a number of expenditures, but you couldn’t tie
13 them directly with the information you had to Janet
14 Arvizo; is that correct?
15 A. That is correct.
16 Q. So you took the representative ones here
17 that are clearly for something that has been
18 identified as a residence of Janet Arvizo; is that
19 correct?
20 A. That is correct.
21 Q. All right. Now, I want to ask you --
22 Switching gears here for a second, I’d like
23 to first approach the witness and I’m going to come
24 back and put this up on the board, if I can. I’d
25 like to approach the witness with the book that
26 includes Exhibit 414 and 416 that have already been
27 received into evidence. And while I’m at the
28 microphone here, I’ll just say it here so we don’t 11554
1 have a colloquy up there.
2 I’m just going to ask you to look at 414 and
3 416. And these have been placed in these glassine
4 protectors, or whatever they are, and unfortunately
5 the book is broken on the top, and it tends to come
6 apart, so we’ve got to be careful flipping through.
7 I’m going to ask you to look through 414 and
8 then look through 416, and tell me if those appear
9 to be the same documents that you looked at earlier,
10 okay?
11 Did I ask if I may approach? I think I did,
12 yes.
13 In fact, what we’ll do is just start with
14 414.
15 A. Yes. This is the document I previously saw.
16 Q. Okay. Now, on 414, that appears to be a
17 report of some sort that was generated on behalf of
18 a company called Neverland Valley Entertainment,
19 correct?
20 A. I don’t know who it was generated on. It’s
21 a Quicken report generated by the Quicken software,
22 and it appears to be disbursements with different
23 categories, such as Panda Express, Anchor Blue
24 Clothing, Johnny Rocket’s, with various dollar
25 amounts and then a running balance going forward.
26 Q. All right. And at the end -- so the running
27 balance going forward at the end should show you the
28 total amount of the expenditures for the particular 11555
1 items included in that Quicken report; is that
2 correct?
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. Take your time.
5 A. And what happens, the way the account reads,
6 it starts at zero. Somebody puts in $2500, and that
7 $2500 is eaten up, so your balance actually goes
8 down, if that makes any kind of sense.
9 Q. Can you tell -- and I’m sorry to put you on
10 the spot here, but can you tell quickly about how
11 much money was expended through that account?
12 I see you brought a calculator. I’m not
13 really encouraging you to use it, if you can give us
14 an approximation.
15 A. I’m going to give it about $7,000.
16 Q. So earlier when you said several thousand
17 dollars, you see about 7,000 there; is that correct?
18 A. Yes, 7,000 or so.
19 Q. All right. Now, I’m going to ask you to
20 turn to 416. And I’m going to come and help you,
21 because the book is going to fall apart.
22 If I may, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24 MR. SANGER: Let me just help you with this.
25 All right?
26 Q. Now, I’ll ask you to go through 416. Just
27 kind of flip through it and see if that appears to
28 be the same documents that we showed you as being a 11556
1 copy of 416.
2 A. Yes. And the title of it is “Summary of
3 Petty Cash Expenditures,” and it lists dates and
4 various payees such as Banana Republic, Pacific
5 Sunwear, Levi’s. And then it has dollar amounts,
6 $160, $450, and has a running total that adds up to
7 $4,800 for about a one-month period. 4,800 for a
8 month period.
9 MR. SANGER: All right. May I retrieve the
10 book? I’d like to publish selected pages.
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
13 And with the Court’s permission -- oops,
14 that’s probably why the book is broken. It’s
15 because I did it wrong. No? Okay.
16 With the Court’s permission, I would like to
17 take Exhibit 414, which has been received, and
18 publish some representative pages here of the
19 eight-page register, if I may.
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 MR. SANGER: Okay. Thank you.
22 Q. Now I’m taking them out of the book. And
23 the first page of Exhibit 414, for the record, the
24 little glassine envelope has a “1” on the bottom and
25 it has a couple of computer disks inside. So I’m
26 going to go to 2, page two of Exhibit 414, and just
27 ask you if -- can you read that? Is it clear enough
28 or -- 11557
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You can? Okay. Let’s just start at the
3 top. And all of these pages are set up the same
4 way; is that correct?
5 A. That is correct.
6 Q. All right. So they’ve got a date, which
7 appears to be obliterated by a hole punch. And then
8 it’s got “Number,” it says “N-U-M,” “Transaction,”
9 “Spend,” “C,” “Received” and “Balance.” Do you know
10 what those columns relate to in this Quicken
11 register?
12 A. Yes. The date is obviously the date. The
13 number is probably a transaction number. Either a
14 check number or a credit card number. The
15 “Transaction” is somebody putting a description as
16 to who the payee is and the reason for it. The
17 “Spend” is the amount of the transaction. And the
18 “Received,” as I was saying, was where somebody’s
19 putting money into that account.
20 So the first transaction is an $80 deposit,
21 so we have a balance of $80. The second transaction
22 is Five Star Parking for $6. And so our balance now
23 is only $74. And it goes into a running total.
24 Q. Okay. I’m sure everybody’s up to date with
25 us here, but the opening balance, somebody put --
26 the opening balance is zero, and then on 2-20 they
27 record an $80 deposit, showing a balance of a
28 deposit of $80, correct? 11558
1 A. That is correct.
2 Q. And then you have the next transaction, $6
3 is spent, so that leaves you $74 --
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. -- right?
6 And you can follow this through. I’m going
7 to move this particular page up a little bit. You
8 had mentioned there was a $2500 deposit at some
9 point, and that appears to have occurred on 2-25-03,
10 2500, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And looks like there was a negative balance
13 here after an expenditure at Robinson’s-May --
14 actually, there’s been a negative balance for a
15 while here. And now the total is 2272.70, which
16 means that the $2500 then replenished that account;
17 is that correct?
18 A. That is correct.
19 Q. And in the various -- in the columns here
20 for the period of time covered by this register, you
21 have certain indications such as “Hair products for
22 Janet,” “Outback Restaurant, Janet,” and looks like
23 it says “Vinnie”?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. All right? And it also -- apparently “Gas
26 for rental car.” That’s also included in this
27 account; is that correct?
28 A. That is correct. I think the -- I think the 11559
1 account title is “Janet.”
2 Q. All right. All right. So if we take this
3 through to the end, there’s the same -- same
4 accounting procedure through the entire seven pages.
5 A. That’s correct. And when I came up with
6 that $7,000, I ran a mental total of all the
7 deposits, that 80, the 2500, and I came up with
8 around 7,000.
9 Q. Okay. And that’s why you’re an accountant
10 because you can do that fairly quickly.
11 All right. Now, let me turn to -- I’m going
12 to turn to the next exhibit, Your Honor. I just
13 need to do it carefully. To Exhibit 416.
14 And may I put that up on the board?
15 THE COURT: Yes.
16 MR. SANGER: It’s been previously received.
17 Q. Okay. You talked about 416 and you told us
18 that this appears to be what you reviewed. This is
19 a handwritten, obviously, expenditure sheet of some
20 sort; is that correct?
21 A. That’s correct.
22 Q. All right. And this appears to go from
23 2-26-03 to, looks like, 2-28-03?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. In any event, this has -- the bottom
26 line for this period of time, it shows, you thought,
27 about $4,000 in expenses?
28 A. $4,817. 11560
1 Q. Now, they said “Cash left” of 180. So, to
2 be technically correct, I suppose you’d subtract the
3 180 from that 4800?
4 A. I believe that 180 is the amount of the
5 expenditure --
6 Q. Oh, okay.
7 A. -- to the left. So --
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. I don’t know what “cash left” means.
10 Q. But the rest of the things seem to be
11 expenditures of some sort for McDonald’s, Mobil and
12 so on, Baskin Robbins, I see, right?
13 A. That is correct.
14 Q. All right. Now, in the rest of Exhibit 416,
15 there are -- the first two pages, there were a
16 series -- there was a series of receipts; is that
17 correct?
18 A. That is correct.
19 Q. Now, you did not go through and attempt to
20 match all the receipts to expenditures; is that
21 right?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. I’m going to take page three and put this up
24 here. There’s a note, “Luggage for trip.” Do you
25 see this up there?
26 A. Yes, it appears to be to Wilson’s down at
27 the Camarillo Outlet.
28 Q. Wilson’s is a leather or luggage store? 11561
1 A. I believe it is.
2 Q. And then there’s a note, “Food,” and it
3 shows a Denny’s receipt?
4 A. Denny’s in Thousand Oaks.
5 Q. And I’ll take the next page here quickly.
6 I’ll put that back there. It appears to be a Banana
7 Republic receipt; is that correct?
8 A. Correct. It looks like they’re all from the
9 Camarillo outlets.
10 Q. Pacific Sunwear. So all of these seem to be
11 from the same general place?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Okay. And basically, if you go through
14 here, based on your understanding of accounts and
15 documenting accounts, it appears that somebody at
16 least attempted to put together all the receipts, or
17 put together receipts that would back up the kind of
18 accounting document that you saw either in 414 or
19 the beginning of 416; is that correct?
20 A. Correct. Assuming that those match up.
21 Now, I didn’t match them up, no.
22 Q. And you weren’t asked to assume that every
23 single one of these receipts pertained to Janet
24 Arvizo.
25 A. No, sir.
26 Q. So if we look at Outback Steakhouse here, it
27 looks like there’s a number of different dinners
28 that were purchased on a particular evening; is that 11562
1 correct. Five guests?
2 A. That’s correct. It appears that the total
3 was $111, with a $10 tip.
4 Q. All right. And we’ve just gone through the
5 tip of the iceberg here to save time, but I think
6 there are -- if I’m not mistaken, in the exhibit
7 there are about 60 pages. The last number is
8 numbered 63. But assuming a couple of the pages are
9 for the handwritten accounting in this exhibit,
10 there are about 60 pages of documentation for this;
11 is that correct?
12 A. I would assume so, yes. Excuse me.
13 MR. SANGER: All right. I have no further
14 questions.
15
16 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:
18 Q. Just a couple of final questions.
19 As far as the Exhibits 414 and 416, 414 has
20 a number of entries indicating for Janet; is that
21 true?
22 A. That is my recollection, yes.
23 Q. Do any of the entries likewise indicate a
24 recipient of those services or goods for someone
25 else other than Janet?
26 A. I just remember seeing “Janet,” but I
27 couldn’t tell you every transaction, no.
28 Q. Okay. And do you know who prepared that 11563
1 document?
2 A. No, sir.
3 Q. Do you know where it came from?
4 A. Mr. Sanger gave it to me out of an evidence
5 book.
6 Q. Okay. But other than that, you don’t know
7 who prepared it or under what circumstances it was
8 prepared?
9 A. No. For some reason in the back of my mind,
10 I remember I was told it was Neverland Ranch or --
11 but I don’t really --
12 Q. Neverland Valley Entertainment?
13 A. But I don’t even know who that is.
14 Q. And as far as Exhibit 416, which has the
15 handwriting entries, those handwritten entries, by
16 and large, don’t associate those goods with any
17 individual; is that fair to say?
18 A. I’d have to look at the document. I thought
19 there was some indication, but I don’t remember.
20 Q. Do you remember seeing any entries that
21 indicated goods or services for Frank and Vinnie?
22 A. Those names I remember.
23 Q. Okay. So some of those entries were things
24 that Frank or Vinnie arguably received. At least
25 that’s what it indicates?
26 A. I would agree with that, yes.
27 Q. Were there entries for The Country Inn &
28 Suites? 11564
1 A. I don’t remember that particular entry.
2 Q. Were there entries for gasoline?
3 A. I remember seeing gasoline.
4 Q. Okay. And there were a number of entries
5 for fast food places; is that fair to say?
6 A. That is correct.
7 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: All right. Thank you. No
8 further questions.
9 MR. SANGER: No further questions.
10 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step down.
11 Call your next witness.
12 MR. SANGER: We’ll call Mercy Manrriquez.
13 And -- and, Your Honor, while the witness is
14 coming in here, maybe we could approach quickly on a
15 procedural matter.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 MR. SANGER: Try to handle this with the
18 clerk.
19 (Discussion held off the record at sidebar.)
20 THE COURT: Would you remain standing,
21 please, and face the clerk here and raise your right
22 hand.
23
24 MERCY DEE MANRRIQUEZ
25 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
26
27 THE WITNESS: I do.
28 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and 11565
1 spell your name for the record.
2 THE WITNESS: Mercy Dee Manrriquez.
3 M-e-r-c-y, D-e-e, M-a-n-r-r-i-q-u-e-z.
4 THE CLERK: Thank you.
5 MR. SANGER: Okay. Your Honor, before we
6 start -- well, let me start with this so everybody
7 knows where we are.
8
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. SANGER:
11 Q. Miss Manrriquez, how are you employed?
12 A. I’m employed by the County of Los Angeles,
13 the Department of Public Social Services.
14 Q. What does the Department of Public Social
15 Services do?
16 A. The program I’m involved in -- we determine
17 eligibility for people that are requesting public
18 assistance.
19 Q. Okay. And you’re doing pretty much okay,
20 but maybe you can pull the right microphone up just
21 a little bit. It’s kind of a hard one to talk into.
22 A. Okay. Is that better?
23 Q. That’s a little better. You’re doing okay,
24 actually. All witnesses tend to fall off a bit if
25 we’re not careful.
26 Okay. So you determine welfare eligibility,
27 correct?
28 A. Yes. 11566
1 Q. Do you personally know an individual by the
2 name of Janet Ventura Arvizo?
3 A. No, I don’t.
4 MR. SANGER: We have subpoenaed the records
5 from the Department of Public Social Services and I
6 believe the clerk has them. And pursuant to prior
7 orders, they have not been opened by anybody. So I
8 would ask that --
9 THE COURT: Do you have those?
10 MR. SANGER: And, Your Honor, I’m going to
11 ask that the witness and counsel be allowed to
12 inspect those documents. I believe the Department
13 of Public Social Services required a court order
14 that the witness be allowed to testify as to this
15 particular individual, if I’m not mistaken.
16 Is that correct?
17 THE WITNESS: That’s correct.
18 MR. SANGER: So we would request an order;
19 the Court order the witness to testify regarding
20 Janet Arvizo.
21 THE COURT: In anticipation of this this
22 morning, I reviewed these records.
23 Sorry. In anticipation of this this
24 morning, I reviewed these records, and I will make a
25 determination that the Court has waived the privacy
26 privileges involved and finds that the probative
27 value and the nature of these proceedings are such
28 that I will order the records revealed and order the 11567
1 Department of Social Services to answer the
2 questions propounded by both sides here today.
3 MR. SANGER: Thank you, Your Honor.
4 Procedurally, may both counsel take a quick
5 look at it, since we haven’t seen it yet?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 MR. SANGER: Can we approach and do that?
8 THE COURT: Why don’t you just take them.
9 There were several envelopes. The mailing envelope
10 I’m discarding. There was an envelope that also was
11 opened to ensure that the subpoena had been complied
12 with, and then I reviewed the records.
13 MR. SANGER: Okay. Could --
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. SANGER: Could Mr. Auchincloss and I
16 just have a moment so we can see where we’re going?
17 THE COURT: Go ahead.
18 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, there are a few
19 pages in here that are upside down. And with the
20 permission of counsel, I’m going to turn them right
21 side up, if that’s all right.
22 THE COURT: All right.
23 MR. SANGER: Otherwise, I’ll try to leave it
24 in the same condition.
25 Your Honor, both counsel and I have had an
26 opportunity to review the documents that were
27 subpoenaed to the court. And I believe they were
28 delivered in January, if I’m not mistaken. And 11568
1 we’ve just now taken a look at them.
2 What I propose to do, if it’s all right with
3 the Court, I’d like to question the witness on these
4 documents, so I would ask that we mark them all as
5 one exhibit. There is the Court’s order endorsing
6 the subpoena duces tecum from November 5, 2004. I
7 would remove that, unless somebody wants to keep it
8 in there.
9 THE COURT: That’s fine to remove it.
10 MR. SANGER: I’ll remove that and we’ll just
11 give that back and lodge it with the Court. And
12 then I suppose the envelope and the -- all the
13 documents could be marked as one exhibit next in
14 order.
15 THE COURT: That will be fine.
16 THE CLERK: That would be 5106.
17 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. We’re back to you.
18 Sorry to make you sit there so long.
19 All right. What I -- we have these
20 documents marked as Exhibit 5106 for identification,
21 and I would actually move to admit them at this time
22 as based on -- based on the Evidence Code section
23 1560 verification.
24 THE COURT: As official records?
25 MR. SANGER: As official records.
26 THE COURT: They’re admitted.
27 MR. SANGER: Thank you. May I approach the
28 witness? 11569
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Now I’m going to ask you
3 just to flip through that, if you would, just so you
4 feel comfortable with what’s in there. And I am
5 going to go through and ask you questions on some of
6 the documents as we go along.
7 Okay. Miss Manrriquez, have you had a
8 chance to flip through those and get a feel for
9 what’s in there?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. All right. Now, I want to ask you some
12 questions in general, and then I’m going to come
13 down and retrieve those from you after a little
14 while. Not right now, so you can look at them. And
15 I’m going to ask permission to put some of them up
16 on the screen as we go along. But let’s start.
17 So you’re free to answer the questions, if
18 you know, directly. If you need to refer to the
19 file, indicate that you want to do that, and then we
20 can do that as well, okay?
21 A. Okay.
22 Q. So first of all, let me ask you some general
23 questions about welfare eligibility.
24 What is the function of the welfare
25 eligibility worker?
26 A. To determine eligibility for the
27 participants that are receive -- there’s the three
28 programs that I work, Cal-Works, which is cash 11570
1 assistance, food stamps, and Medi-Cal.
2 Q. Okay. And are these benefits distributed by
3 the State of California, the County of Los Angeles,
4 the federal government, or what?
5 A. The County of Los Angeles. The County of
6 Los Angeles.
7 Q. Okay. And wherever the funds come from
8 initially, it’s the County of Los Angeles that is
9 given the job of deciding who should get the funds?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Now, you said there are three categories.
12 The first one was Cal-Works; is that correct?
13 A. Cal-Works.
14 Q. Can you spell that so we can hear what
15 you’re saying?
16 A. C-a-l-W-o-r-k-s.
17 Q. It’s Cal-Works?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And Cal-Works is what kind of a program?
20 A. That’s the cash assistance.
21 Q. If somebody comes in and has an emergency
22 need for cash, can they -- I’m sorry. If somebody
23 comes in and they can make a showing that they have
24 a need for emergency cash, would it be distributed
25 under that program?
26 A. Yes. They need to meet the qualifications.
27 Q. Okay. Now, as to all of the programs, is
28 there -- I mean, this is an obvious question, but is 11571
1 there a bottomless pit of money that’s out there to
2 be distributed to people in California?
3 A. No.
4 Q. All right. Is it important to determine who
5 really needs the assistance?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. Why is that? It may be an obvious question,
8 but why is that?
9 A. In my opinion, I would think it would be to
10 cut down on the fraud.
11 Q. And if people come in and do not accurately
12 represent to you their assets or the availability of
13 funds or people to assist them in their living
14 expenses, does that keep you from doing your job
15 properly?
16 A. Yes, it would.
17 Q. And if they willfully exclude any of those
18 items I just mentioned, would that amount to fraud?
19 A. Yes, it would.
20 Q. It’s your job to try to eliminate fraud the
21 best you can or avoid fraud the best you can so you
22 give money to people who really deserve it and need
23 it; is that correct?
24 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Argumentative;
25 leading.
26 THE COURT: Sustained.
27 MR. SANGER: All right.
28 Q. Now, do you have an opportunity to verify 11572
1 everything that people put in the written
2 applications to you?
3 A. No, not everything.
4 Q. Do you have an opportunity to verify
5 everything that people tell you orally in interviews
6 or over the phone?
7 A. No, not always.
8 Q. Do you have to depend on people telling the
9 truth when they fill out the various forms?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now, one of the forms that you had there I
12 think was an eligibility form, and I think it’s --
13 well, it’s called Statement of Facts. So I don’t
14 really know what it is. But I think you’ve got
15 something there called a Statement of Facts; is that
16 correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Can you tell us what the purpose of that
19 document is?
20 A. This is their application to determine their
21 eligibility.
22 Q. Do you depend on people to be honest when
23 they fill out a form like that, or fill out that
24 particular form?
25 A. Yes, we do.
26 Q. And do you make decisions as to who should
27 receive benefits based on the information in that
28 form? 11573
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is that form signed under penalty of
3 perjury?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. Now, were you the actual eligibility worker
6 who worked with Janet Arvizo to determine her
7 eligibility?
8 A. I was her intake worker.
9 Q. All right. And so as the intake worker, you
10 went over this form with her?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you have that form as part of the
13 exhibit?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. I’ve now forgotten what the exhibit number
16 is. I apologize.
17 MR. MESEREAU: 5106.
18 MR. SANGER: 5106.
19 Q. So you have 5106, which is the big packet of
20 information there?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And right towards the top is the actual
23 Statement of Facts application part of that?
24 A. You have two Statement of Facts in this
25 exhibit here.
26 Q. Okay. Is there a reason for that? Because
27 I have no idea. We just opened it.
28 A. The first one that’s dated 11-15-01, that’s 11574
1 her intake. The second one, which is dated
2 10-23-02, is her yearly affirmation.
3 Q. All right. Now, how many -- you’ve got one
4 application for November 15th of ‘01?
5 A. Correct.
6 MR. SANGER: Could I have the Post-its
7 there? Just the little ones. The little ones.
8 Q. You have the initial application and then
9 you have one for 2002; is that correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Do you have one for 2003?
12 A. No.
13 Q. All right. The first date was November
14 2001. The second one was November 2002; is that
15 right?
16 A. No. The first one is 11-15-01, and the next
17 one is 10-23-02.
18 Q. Okay. So 11-15, November 15 of 2001, and
19 then October-something of 2002, correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. So if Janet Arvizo had continued, wanted to
22 continue to collect money through your office in
23 October or November of 2003, she would have had to
24 fill out an annual form at that time; is that
25 correct?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Is there also a monthly form that you have
28 to fill out when you’re receiving welfare? 11575
1 A. Yes, there is.
2 Q. And what monthly form is there?
3 A. It’s called a CEW7. CW7.
4 Q. CW7, okay. We have to learn a new
5 vocabulary every time we get into a new area.
6 So the CW7 is a monthly form. In order for
7 somebody to receive a check, do they have to file
8 that monthly form?
9 A. Yes. There are exceptions, but the norm is,
10 yes, you do file one every month.
11 Q. Now, I interrupted. We are going to come
12 back to the CW7 in a second, and the other one as
13 well. I interrupted you.
14 Cal-Works is a cash payment program. And
15 you have food stamps; is that correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And food stamps are certificates that can be
18 redeemed at a retail market, for instance, for food
19 products; is that correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And the idea is that these are given to
22 families so that they can buy food products or use
23 those to buy food products.
24 Is it a complete dollar-for-dollar sort of
25 thing, or is it a percentage off, or how does it
26 work?
27 A. No, it’s a dollar for dollar.
28 Q. You get so many dollars’ worth of food 11576
1 stamps. You can go to a food store and buy food,
2 and those count just like dollar bills?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. The third category you told us about?
5 A. Medi-Cal.
6 Q. And that’s for medical care?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. All right. If somebody is not covered by a
9 medical insurance program?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. So if somebody is covered by a medical
12 insurance program, the medical insurance would pick
13 up the tab first; is that right?
14 A. That is correct.
15 Q. And then Medi-Cal will kick in if there is
16 anything left over?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. All right. And with regard to Janet Arvizo
19 and her family, can you tell us if she received any
20 Cal-Works benefits?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’ll object as vague as to
22 time.
23 THE COURT: Sustained.
24 MR. SANGER: Okay.
25 Q. Let’s do this. Can you tell us when Janet
26 Arvizo started receiving benefits of any sort
27 through your program and when she ceased receiving
28 benefits? 11577
1 A. Okay. According to what I have here, she
2 started receiving assistance, Cal-Works, in November
3 of ‘01 and stopped in January of ‘03.
4 Q. That was the Cal-Works?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Did she receive any other sorts of benefits,
7 food stamps or Medi-Cal?
8 A. Medi-Cal goes hand in hand with Cal-Works,
9 so she did receive that.
10 Q. I’m going to show you exhibits that have
11 already been admitted into evidence, these three
12 exhibits. They’re Exhibits 5100, 5102 and 5104.
13 May I approach, Your Honor?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. SANGER: I’d put them up on the board,
16 but they’d be hard to see. So let me -- let’s put
17 this over here so we don’t get mixed up, and let’s
18 just take a look at those exhibits.
19 Q. 5100, does that appear to be a benefit
20 that’s distributed through your agency?
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. And what does that appear to be a check for?
23 A. A check for the amount of $769 for
24 Cal-Works.
25 Q. That’s Cal-Works?
26 A. Correct.
27 Q. Okay. And then the 5102?
28 A. Also is a check made out to Janet Arvizo for 11578
1 $769 for Cal-Works.
2 Q. Now, that’s dated February 24, 2003, I
3 believe; is that correct?
4 A. February 15, 2003.
5 Q. I’m sorry. We have a deposit date here, but
6 the actual date of the check is February 15, 2003?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And, now, you indicated that your records --
9 the records that were brought to the court and we
10 all looked at here just now seem to indicate she
11 received Cal-Works through January of ‘03.
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Is that consistent with her receiving a
14 check dated February 15, ‘03?
15 A. February 15th, yes.
16 Q. In other words, the other records seem to
17 end January ‘03, and here we have a February 15,
18 ‘03, check.
19 A. Can I go back and make sure that I have
20 seen --
21 Q. You’re welcome to do that. But so we don’t
22 waste time, if you look at the next one, 5104, it
23 appears to be a welfare check dated in March of
24 2003; is that correct?
25 A. Correct.
26 Q. That does look like one of your Cal-Works
27 checks?
28 A. Yes, it does. 11579
1 Q. With that in mind, so I didn’t have you do
2 it twice, can you tell from your records if it
3 appears that Miss Arvizo was, in fact, receiving
4 welfare checks through March of 2003?
5 A. Yes, through March of 2003.
6 Q. Okay. Now, that’s Cal-Works. The food
7 stamps, do you have any ability to determine when
8 she received food stamp assistance?
9 A. She started receiving food stamps
10 11-15-2001.
11 Q. And when do those records show that she
12 continued to receive the food stamps through?
13 A. There’s no --
14 Q. Go ahead, sorry.
15 A. There’s not a printout of that.
16 Q. So you can see it started, but you can’t see
17 from the records that were delivered here to court
18 when it ended?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Okay. The Medi-Cal would have just followed
21 with the Cal-Works?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. And so it would be your opinion that she
24 would have had Medi-Cal for uninsured medical
25 expenses at least through March of 2003; is that
26 correct?
27 A. At least through March 2003.
28 MR. SANGER: All right. Now, let me -- if I 11580
1 may approach and retrieve Exhibit 5106, and I’ll try
2 to put that up on the board, if that’s all right.
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
5 I’ll take the envelope and the documents and
6 everything. There we go.
7 Your Honor, this part will be easy. This is
8 starting with the third page of this exhibit. I
9 suspect it will get a little more difficult as we go
10 along, but I’ll refer to this as the Statement of
11 Facts. It is the third page in the stack as I have
12 it here, if that’s all right.
13 And may I publish that?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. SANGER: All right.
16 Q. All right. Well, we’ll start with this for
17 a second first. But I see the way this is
18 organized, for some reason, this is the -- the
19 current print date says 10-23-02; is that correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. So this is the second one of those that you
22 were talking about; is that right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. So let me, now that I’ve figured
25 that out, take that off and we’ll come back to this
26 in one second, and I’m going to mark that and come
27 back to it.
28 Now, more precisely, somewhere about a third 11581
1 of the way through this exhibit is something else
2 entitled “Statement of Facts.”
3 Is that close enough to identify it?
4 THE COURT: I think so.
5 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
6 THE COURT: There’s just two Statements of
7 Facts in the file?
8 MR. SANGER: That’s correct, Your Honor.
9 And I’m going to put the first page up.
10 Q. All right. Miss Manrriquez, it’s a little
11 hard to -- a little fuzzy there, but this apparently
12 is -- current print date is 11-15-01, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. It says, “Worker name, Mercy Manrriquez”?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. That would be you?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. All right. Is this Statement of Facts the
19 statement that you printed out after interviewing
20 Janet Arvizo?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Was she asked to review it carefully and
23 sign it if it was correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And at the end of this document, there is a
26 certification; is that correct?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. And down at the bottom -- let’s see if we 11582
1 can -- I’ll leave it there. It says, in bold print,
2 “I declare, under penalty of perjury under the laws
3 of the United States of America and the State of
4 California, that the information in this Statement
5 of Facts is true, correct and complete.” Is that
6 right?
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. And then you see what appears to be a
9 signature there. And that would be the signature of
10 the applicant in this case, Janet Arvizo; is that
11 correct?
12 A. That’s correct.
13 Q. And the date 11-15-01, correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Now, I note that the declaration statement
16 says, “the State of California,” because we’re in
17 the State of California, and it also says, “under
18 the laws of the United States of America.”
19 Are any of the funds, in part, federal funds
20 that are used for funding these programs?
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. So somebody is being asked to not only swear
23 under the laws of California, but also the laws --
24 the federal laws that what they say is true and
25 correct, correct?
26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Relevancy;
27 argumentative.
28 THE COURT: Overruled. 11583
1 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Is that correct, ma’am?
2 A. Yes, it is.
3 Q. Thank you. All right. Now, Question No. 47 --
4 I don’t want to mix the pages up here, so this is a
5 page from the middle of this Statement of Facts from
6 11-15. It says “11-15-2001” there.
7 Question 47 says, “Does anyone, including
8 children, have any personal or business-related
9 resources?” Do you see that?
10 A. Yes, I do.
11 Q. Is that one of the standard questions?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. And Miss Arvizo answered, “No”; is that
14 correct?
15 A. That’s correct.
16 Q. Miss Arvizo did not disclose to you on
17 November 15, 2001, that on November 5, 2001, she
18 personally had received $32,308, did she?
19 A. No, she did not.
20 Q. If she had disclosed that, would that have
21 resulted in a different answer to that question?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, it says, “Children.” Did Miss Arvizo
24 advise you at that time that her children had also
25 received -- one of them had received $25,000 on that
26 same date?
27 A. No.
28 Q. The other child had received, I believe it 11584
1 was, in excess of 10,000, off the top of my head. I
2 don’t remember. But did she disclose anything like
3 that?
4 A. No, she did not.
5 Q. Did she disclose that her ex-husband had
6 received money from a court settlement as well?
7 A. No, she did not.
8 Q. If she had disclosed that, would that have
9 been a material fact that you would have wanted to
10 know in evaluating whether or not she was eligible
11 for welfare?
12 A. That would have been something we needed to
13 know.
14 Q. Now, how long back does this relate? In
15 other words, what I just asked you about was within
16 ten days of signing this, November 5th. How far
17 back does this relate? Does it go back a year, two
18 years, three years? What’s the -- when a question
19 like this is asked?
20 A. As long as the participant has the resource
21 they need to put it in no matter what the date is as
22 to when they received it.
23 Q. All right. And is it the obligation of the
24 applicant on the monthly eligibility reports to
25 report any change in any of these circumstances?
26 A. Yes, it is.
27 Q. Question No. 48, “Does anyone get or expect
28 to get money from any of the above resources, such 11585
1 as interest, dividends, et cetera?”
2 If somebody had -- let’s take the children.
3 If one of the children, say, had $25,000 in a bank
4 account that was earning interest, would it be
5 necessary to disclose that under Question 48?
6 A. Yes, it would be necessary.
7 Q. And again, the answer there is “No”; is that
8 correct?
9 A. That’s correct.
10 Q. And you relied on Mrs. Arvizo telling you
11 that that was the answer?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. I’m going to put up the next page, with the
14 Court’s permission. The next page is -- I’m going
15 to direct your attention to Question No. 53.
16 Now, that one says, if I may read it, “Has
17 anyone received money from insurance or court
18 settlements, inheritance, lottery or back pay in the
19 last three years (36 months)?”
20 Do you see that?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. And the “anyone” would be the applicant or
23 the children of the applicant; is that correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Did Mrs. Arvizo disclose to you that she had
26 just received a settlement, a court settlement, of
27 $152,000, less attorney’s fees and costs?
28 A. No. 11586
1 Q. Would that have been a material
2 consideration on your part in determining her
3 eligibility?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And if she, in fact, had received such a
6 settlement, would that be fraud, to fail to disclose
7 it on this form?
8 A. Yes, it would be.
9 Q. I’m going to put up the next page, with the
10 Court’s permission. I did it before asking, I
11 suppose, but....
12 THE COURT: That’s all right.
13 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
14 Q. Look at No. 62. “Does anyone have health,
15 dental, vision, hospitalization or long-term care
16 insurance or health plans, such as Kaiser, Blue
17 Cross, CHAMPUS, et cetera?”
18 Do you see that?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. Did Miss Arvizo tell you she did not have
21 such?
22 A. Correct. It says, “No.”
23 Q. So if she, in fact, had health insurance,
24 comprehensive health insurance for her children
25 under Kaiser, would that be a false answer?
26 A. Yes, that would be false.
27 Q. And that would also be fraud, would it not?
28 A. Correct. 11587
1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m going to object to the
2 characterization as calling for a legal conclusion.
3 THE COURT: Sustained.
4 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. Whatever we want to
5 call it here, you are trying to -- I think you told
6 us you’re trying to avoid fraud?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And if we -- let’s put it this way: In
9 layman’s terms, rather than describing it in legal
10 terms, so we don’t get into a legal definition of
11 fraud, if somebody tells you something that is
12 materially false with regard to their assets or
13 income, and you grant them welfare based on those
14 false statements, is that what you’re referring to
15 as fraud?
16 A. Yes.
17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Same objection.
18 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer’s in.
19 Next question.
20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: All right. Now, in this
21 packet, there were monthly -- I didn’t see a monthly
22 eligibility report for every month. Did you?
23 A. No, I did not.
24 Q. Does that mean they don’t exist, or they
25 just didn’t end up being produced here?
26 A. It could mean either/or.
27 Q. Okay. If somebody continues to receive
28 welfare of the type you described through March of 11588
1 2003, you would expect them to have to fill out
2 monthly eligibility reports, correct?
3 A. Yes, monthly, until I believe it was in July
4 of 2002 we went into a quarterly reporting system.
5 Q. Okay. So monthly up to July of 2002 and
6 then it was quarterly?
7 A. I believe it was July.
8 Q. All right. I’m going to turn to some of the
9 other pages. By the way, these pages don’t seem to
10 be in chronological order, do they?
11 A. I don’t know.
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. They should be.
14 Q. Okay. Well, that’s all right. I didn’t --
15 let’s -- I’m going to try to keep the pages together
16 here.
17 I’m going to go a few more pages into the
18 materials. And these two pages are next to each
19 other, so I’m going to ask to put these up one after
20 the other and see if they have anything to do with
21 anything.
22 All right. The first page is something
23 entitled, “Application for Cash Aid, Food Stamps,
24 and/or Medi-Cal, State CMSP (CW1).”
25 Now, I heard about a CW7 earlier. The “7”
26 is the monthly report?
27 A. Yes, it is.
28 Q. Okay. So this is a CW1. What is the 11589
1 purpose of this?
2 A. The CW1 is taken when the participant first
3 comes in, into our office. This is the first page
4 of their application.
5 Q. Oh, okay. So this -- in this packet, it
6 follows that Statement of Facts, but actually this
7 would have been part of the application?
8 A. The original.
9 Q. Okay. And if we look down here, it says,
10 “I need” -- I think everybody can see it there.
11 Here we go.
12 Right here, it says, “I need,” and it says,
13 “Cal-Works, immediate need payment; yes.” “Food
14 stamp, expedited service; yes.” “Medi-Cal or are
15 pregnant and have an immediate medical need; yes,”
16 correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And that would have been Janet Arvizo’s
19 request?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And this would be the signature of Janet
22 Arvizo, the applicant?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. The date, 11-15-01?
25 A. Correct.
26 Q. And what’s that? Looks like the signature
27 of a witness?
28 A. That’s the signature of our -- one of our 11590
1 clerks that takes the application at the window.
2 Q. So the clerk is certifying that Janet Arvizo
3 is signing this on that date; is that correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Okay. And this particular form says that
6 the person certifies that they got a cover sheet,
7 and it says, “I understand and agree that I have to
8 comply with eligibility rules, some of which I may
9 be asked to do before any aid can be given. I
10 understand the statements I have made on this form
11 may be checked and verified,” correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And there’s another entry there. The last
14 part before the signature says, “I declare, under
15 penalty of perjury under the laws of the United
16 States of America and the State of California, that
17 information I have given on this form is true and
18 correct and complete” -- “true, correct and
19 complete,” right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. So this is signed under penalty of perjury
22 as well.
23 The next page in the file, and I’m quite
24 frankly not sure if this goes directly with it or
25 not, can you tell us what that page is?
26 A. Those are the notices that have been issued
27 to the participant, and, no, it does not go with
28 that first page. 11591
1 Q. Okay. It’s also dated 11-15-2001, correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. So this is basically a receipt that the
4 person who is applying for welfare payments
5 acknowledges that the following items were reviewed
6 with her and issued to her today, on 11-15-2001,
7 correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And included in those are the cover sheet of
10 the application for cash aid, food stamps and/or
11 Medi-Cal, correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And it says, “Cover Sheet.” Does that mean
14 that’s the whole Statement of facts?
15 A. No. That’s the cover sheet. There is a
16 cover sheet that goes on it.
17 Q. And is this issued before they sign the
18 Statement of Facts?
19 A. It’s issued after.
20 Q. After. Is there reference to the Statement
21 of Facts here in all these code numbers?
22 A. The reference would be both on the SAWS 1
23 and SAWS 2A. They would give them all their
24 responsibilities.
25 Q. All right. So the idea that you’re signing
26 under penalty of perjury and telling the Department
27 of Public Social Services that what you’re saying is
28 the truth is covered by one or more of these forms; 11592
1 is that correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 THE COURT: All right. We’ll take our break.
4 (Recess taken.)
5 THE COURT: Counsel?
6 MR. SANGER: May I proceed?
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, we had on the board
9 a page that we’ve been talking about, which, for the
10 purpose of the record, is the best way to put it.
11 And I want to put it back up on the board.
12 THE COURT: All right.
13 MR. SANGER: Thank you.
14 Q. Now, this was the page that -- you were just
15 telling us about this page, and down at the bottom
16 there, it has “Client’s Signature.” Would that be
17 Janet Arvizo’s signature?
18 A. Yes, it would.
19 Q. And that’s dated 11-15-2001. That would
20 have been the date that she signed that?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. And it says, “Copy to client.” So the
23 client, that being Janet Arvizo, would have gotten a
24 copy of this as well; is that correct?
25 A. Correct.
26 Q. Now I’m going to put up the next page in
27 order in the exhibit, 5106.
28 Looking at the top part, did this have 11593
1 something to do with the application of Janet Arvizo
2 on 11-15-01?
3 A. That’s what they use to clear her name, and
4 if she had a previous record, case, with the county.
5 Q. All right. So when you’re -- it’s like
6 running a records check; is that correct?
7 A. Yes. That’s our Medi-Cal system that that
8 form is from.
9 Q. And the date is 11-15-01, so that would have
10 been when that was done?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. I see some handwriting on the bottom. Is
13 that your handwriting?
14 A. No, it’s not.
15 Q. Okay. What would be the purpose of this
16 type of a note in the file?
17 A. That -- you know, we don’t have a screener.
18 The intake worker that was interviewing her before
19 me would have taken notes down. And once it became
20 aware to that intake worker that it was a domestic
21 violence, and then she referred her to me.
22 Q. Okay. That’s interesting. You can turn
23 around a bit, it will make it easier, and I’ll ask
24 you about that in a minute. Turn around this way,
25 and that will make it easier to talk into the
26 microphone.
27 You said the case was referred to you
28 because it was domestic violence? 11594
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Do you have some particular role there with
3 regard to domestic violence cases?
4 A. I was the intake domestic violence worker.
5 Q. So when Janet Arvizo first came in, she
6 talked to another intake worker; is that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And that intake worker would have gone over
9 the same questions; is that correct?
10 A. Not on the application.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. Which does a screening first to see what the
13 participant needs.
14 Q. Okay. So a preliminary kind of screening?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And then when it was determined who should
17 get the final screening, it was sent to you to do
18 the final screening?
19 A. The final intake.
20 Q. All right. Now, the intake worker -- and
21 now you can turn around, if you like, and take a
22 look.
23 The intake worker made a note here, and this
24 says, looks like, “Mother and three children, all
25 U.S. born,” and then it indicates, “Gavin has
26 cancer. Advised mother to apply for SSI.”
27 Would that be an ordinary kind of a note?
28 A. Yes. 11595
1 Q. And that would be the course of action that
2 an intake worker might pursue; is that right?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. So in addition to the benefits that are
5 being sought through your office, Janet Arvizo was
6 advised that she could apply for benefits through
7 the federal government through SSI; is that correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And that’s a program under Social Security,
10 correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. It also indicates - and I’m going to
13 lengthen the abbreviations, unless I’m wrong, so
14 tell me - “Month last worked was 10-31-01 due to
15 surgery on her foot”; is that correct?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And then it says, “On DIB.” I guess
18 disability?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. $104 a week for disability that she was
21 getting?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. Now, it says, “No bank accounts. No cars.”
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Does that reflect, in the ordinary course of
26 business in your department, that somebody would
27 have asked her, “Do you have any bank accounts?”
28 A. Yes, we did. 11596
1 Q. And any cars?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you not only ask for cars, but you ask
4 for access or use of a vehicle; is that right?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And according to this, there was no bank
7 accounts and no use of a vehicle?
8 A. Well, the “no cars” would be that she was --
9 does not own a vehicle.
10 Q. Fair enough. And “no bank accounts” would
11 be no bank accounts, right?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. All right. And then it says -- what’s the
14 abbreviation down there?
15 A. It says, “Part.” Participant.
16 Q. Participant, okay. “Participant also
17 applying for divorce due to domestic violence,”
18 “DV”?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. So this would have been information coming
21 from Janet Arvizo to that first worker; is that
22 correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And when you got the file, then, you would
25 have looked at that note in the file?
26 A. Right.
27 Q. And in fact, that’s the reason it was sent
28 to you particularly, because it was a DV case, 11597
1 domestic violence case?
2 A. Right.
3 Q. All right. The next -- ask leave to put up
4 the next piece of paper in order, if I may.
5 THE COURT: You may.
6 Q. BY MR. SANGER: And this is another piece of
7 paper. It says “Emergency” on the side there.
8 Whose handwriting is that; do you know?
9 A. No, I don’t.
10 Q. Would that be the applicant’s handwriting?
11 A. No, I believe it would be one of our clerks.
12 Q. So it would probably be an intake worker of
13 some sort?
14 A. No, one of our clerks, the receptionist.
15 Q. So this would be the very first page, the
16 very first piece of paper in the process?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Okay. And it shows the applicant as
19 applying for various benefits, and it says, “Are you
20 in need of emergency?” I think that’s what it says.
21 “Are you in need of emergency”?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. Right?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. By that we mean emergency benefits, correct?
26 A. Correct.
27 Q. And then down here it says, “Domestic abuse,
28 child and spousal,” correct? 11598
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And this is based on information that would
3 have been obtained from Janet Arvizo herself?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. An emergency -- an emergency request, as
6 noted up here on the end, is that noted for some
7 reason in your department?
8 A. Yes, in order to expedite services to that
9 participant.
10 Q. And why do you -- I mean, it may be obvious,
11 but explain why you have a process to expedite
12 services.
13 A. One might be the family’s in danger. We
14 don’t want to put the children in -- and, you know,
15 the woman back in there.
16 Q. All right. And so they need to have money
17 right away so they can go someplace to be safe?
18 A. Well, not always cash, but we can locate a
19 shelter.
20 Q. Okay. And so when you say “emergency,” it
21 means, “We need” -- “We’re just not going to put
22 this in the system and go through the normal
23 process; we’re going to pay special attention to
24 your case”?
25 A. Correct.
26 MR. SANGER: All right. I’m going to put up
27 5099, if I may. That’s been received.
28 THE COURT: All right. 11599
1 Q. BY MR. SANGER: If you were aware -- you
2 haven’t seen this before, but this is admitted into
3 evidence.
4 If you were aware that Janet Arvizo
5 personally, in addition to what her children got,
6 had received a check for $32,000, $32,308, and that
7 she had -- it’s dated on November 2nd -- that she
8 had actually deposited it in her bank on November
9 5th, 2001, would that have affected your decision as
10 to whether or not this was an emergency case?
11 A. Yes, it would.
12 Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned that there was a
13 need to fill out a monthly application form, or a
14 monthly -- I’m sorry, what do we call it? It was a
15 monthly form to show that there were no changes; is
16 that correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 MR. SANGER: All right. Sorry, Your Honor,
19 excuse me just one second.
20 Q. I may be wrong, but I’m not sure that I find
21 all the monthly eligibility reports in here. Did
22 you see a set for monthly and then quarterly?
23 A. I didn’t see a set. I believe I saw one.
24 MR. SANGER: Yeah. With the Court’s
25 permission, I’ll put this up.
26 THE COURT: All right.
27 Q. BY MR. SANGER: And this, for the record, is
28 from 5106 and it’s a page somewhere in the middle. 11600
1 I’ll put it back in the same order.
2 Now, this particular form -- this is the
3 monthly eligibility report that you would expect to
4 be filled out by applicants each month to be
5 entitled to welfare assistance the next month; is
6 that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Skipping down to the bottom, this one is
9 dated 1-10-03, correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Okay. It appears, it says here, “Received
12 January 9, ‘03.” And then it says, upside down,
13 “SCU scanned.” What does that mean?
14 A. We have clerks that scan the reports as they
15 come in.
16 Q. Is it possible that these other reports are
17 scanned in the system somewhere and they just didn’t
18 make it to the court documents?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. In fact, you would expect that, if somebody
21 received --
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. If somebody received assistance the entire
24 time, you would expect to have these every month?
25 A. Yes. If not, their case would be
26 terminated.
27 Q. This is really hard to read, so -- I’m going
28 to try to make it harder. I’ll make it a little 11601
1 easier there.
2 This question, No. 3, is that a standard
3 question on all of these monthly eligibility
4 reports?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And what’s the purpose of Question No. 3?
7 A. It’s to determine eligibility.
8 Q. And in essence, you want to find out if,
9 during the last month or since the last report,
10 there has been any change, people have come up with
11 some money from some source; is that right?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And it says, “Did anyone receive money or
14 benefits from any other source?” All right?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And it says, “Include child, spousal
17 support, interest or dividends.”
18 Now, that would pertain to interest or
19 dividends on accounts that were held in the name of
20 children; is that right?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. I’ll skip over here. “Legal settlements,
23 strike benefits.” Cash is included; is that right?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. And it wouldn’t matter whether it was cash
26 in greenbacks, as they say, or if it was a cashier’s
27 check; is that right?
28 A. Correct. 11602
1 Q. Or a regular check, right?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Gifts? So a gift would count, right?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Loans? If somebody said, “Well, I’m going
6 to loan it to the person. If they can pay it back,
7 fine, and if they can’t, it’s okay,” it would still
8 go in there, right?
9 A. It would still go in the record.
10 Q. There’s a number of other things here.
11 Basically that’s intended to describe what you mean
12 by “Anyone receive money or benefits from any other
13 source,” right?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Okay. Now, on 1-10-03, it appears that this
16 applicant said, “No change,” and checked the box
17 “No” there; is that correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. There is a second page to this form, is
20 there not?
21 A. The reverse side.
22 Q. Should be on the other side? Ahh. Yes,
23 there is. How about that?
24 And on this form Question 7, it says, “Did
25 anyone move in or out of your home, or did you move
26 in with someone else?” Correct?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. And if somebody had moved in with their 11603
1 boyfriend and were living there, you would want to
2 know about it?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What if somebody was just living there about
5 half the time. Would you still want to know about
6 it?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And this person said, “No.” Is that
9 correct?
10 A. Yes. That’s correct.
11 Q. And then, just in case, it’s hard to make it
12 fit yet be able to read it. But in this particular
13 case, it says, “Does anyone have anything else to
14 report, including expected changes, et cetera?”
15 Right?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. So you’re really telling them, “Look, be
18 honest with us. Tell us what’s going on in your
19 life,” right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And then this form was signed by Janet
22 Arvizo on 1-1-03; is that correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And was that form relied upon by your office
25 for the purpose of disseminating welfare benefits?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. And you saw some of these checks that I
28 showed you, I think three checks there, from 11604
1 January, February and March of 2003, the last one
2 being March 17, 2003. Were those checks, based
3 on, in at least one case, this particular form, and
4 in all cases on filing a similar form?
5 A. Yes, it is.
6 Q. Now, if somebody received $600 in cash at
7 Christmas because they said they really needed money
8 and a nice person said, “Here, I’m going to give you
9 $600,” is that something that should have been
10 reported on such a form?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Would that affect eligibility?
13 A. It could affect eligibility.
14 Q. Okay. In February of 2003. Now we have a
15 March 17, 2003, check showing welfare was still
16 being received.
17 If a person received a check in the amount
18 of -- I’m sorry, either check or cash in the amount
19 of $2,000 on February 20th, is that something they
20 should have reported to welfare?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. If a person were receiving several thousand
23 dollars for their living expenses from various
24 sources, from a corporation and from an individual,
25 during a period of time from February to early
26 March, is that something that should have been
27 reported by the person before accepting a March 17
28 welfare check? 11605
1 A. Yes.
2 MR. SANGER: With the Court’s permission,
3 I’ll put up the next page in order.
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Oh, before I do that, let’s
6 assume somebody receives a windfall. They get a lot
7 of money and they got their February check and they
8 know they got all this money. They don’t report it
9 for some reason, and they get their March 17 check.
10 Is it proper for them to keep that check?
11 A. It all depends when they received this
12 amount of money.
13 Q. If they received the -- let’s say they
14 received the amount of money between -- during the
15 month of February and then they go ahead and get a
16 check March 17, and deposit it or cash it sometime
17 later in the month. Is that appropriate or should
18 they refuse to cash it?
19 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m going to object as
20 vague as to the term “appropriate” or “proper.”
21 THE COURT: Overruled.
22 You may answer.
23 THE WITNESS: They should report it. And if
24 they received it in January, it would affect their
25 March.
26 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. Would February affect
27 their March?
28 A. We would consider it as a resource and we 11606
1 would have to do a work sheet on it. Yes, it would.
2 Q. So before they are really entitled to a
3 March 17 check, you’d theoretically want to know
4 about what money they received in February?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And welfare -- recipients of -- people who
7 are receiving these benefits from the government are
8 advised, are they not, that they have to report any
9 significant changes in their situation?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. SANGER: I’m going to now, if I may, put
12 up the next page.
13 Q. First of all, who is Pamela Adkins?
14 A. I believe she’s another worker at the
15 Lincoln Heights office.
16 Q. So we have, “Attention: Pamela Adkins” with
17 a little heart over the “i” there. So this is a
18 note to somebody in your office; is that correct?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. And the fax number, is that a fax number
21 you’re familiar with?
22 A. That’s a fax number to Lincoln Heights.
23 Q. All right. I’m not sure -- let me just see,
24 here. Don’t -- just -- if I may, let me put it up
25 and see if you can read it there. Otherwise I’ll
26 bring it up to you.
27 Can you tell what the fax date on this is?
28 A. No. 11607
1 MR. SANGER: Okay. May I approach the
2 witness?
3 THE COURT: Yes.
4 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Of course now you’re sitting
5 in the dark, which is apparently my fault here. But
6 can you see that?
7 A. I can see partially.
8 MR. SANGER: If I may just ask the question
9 up here, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Can you tell me what date
12 that was faxed?
13 A. It appears to be March 3rd, 2003.
14 Q. Okay. Very well. Now I’m going to put this
15 up again. And it says, “I, Janet Arvizo, chooses to
16 discontinue and be off of the welfare system aid
17 effective today, 3-3. Thank you so much, Janet
18 Arvizo.” Do you see that?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. Do you often receive letters like this?
21 A. We do receive.
22 Q. So people tell you that circumstances have
23 changed and they’re no longer going to be on
24 welfare?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. After this was sent, apparently this check
27 of March 17 was cut and eventually sent to Janet
28 Arvizo. Why would that be? 11608
1 A. Because we have a cut-off date. If they
2 wanted their aid terminated the beginning of March,
3 that would be for the end of February they would
4 give us notice. But this seems that she did this in
5 March, and everything was already mailed out to be
6 batched out.
7 Q. So the check was in the pipeline one way or
8 another?
9 A. Right.
10 Q. All right. Now, if this person who wrote
11 this, Janet Arvizo, had, in fact, during the month
12 of March, between -- I’m sorry, let me withdraw
13 that.
14 During the month of February of 2003, if
15 Janet Arvizo had received several thousand dollars
16 in gifts, spa treatments, trips to Miami, private
17 jet flights, lodging, food, if she had received that
18 sort of thing during the month of February, should
19 she have reported that to the welfare department?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Now, if Janet Arvizo had, in fact, been
22 living with her boyfriend, a major in the United
23 States Army, who was paying her expenses and
24 depositing her welfare checks in his bank account,
25 should she have reported that?
26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m going to object as
27 compound and assumes facts not in evidence, improper
28 hypothetical. 11609
1 MR. SANGER: I’ll break it down, if you
2 like.
3 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.
4 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. Let’s take it one at
5 a time.
6 If a person were -- I think I asked you this
7 part already, but let me just be sure. If a person
8 were residing -- a welfare applicant or participant
9 were residing with her boyfriend in his apartment,
10 is that something that should have been reported to
11 the welfare department before accepting checks?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. If that person, in this case Janet Arvizo,
14 were in fact depositing her welfare checks into her
15 boyfriend’s bank account, is that something that
16 should have been reported?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. If the boyfriend were a major in the United
19 States Army, with a base pay, exclusive of
20 allowances, a base pay of over $5,000, is that
21 something that should have been reported to the
22 welfare department?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. If the boyfriend, the major in the United
25 States Army, were, in fact, paying expenses for
26 Janet Arvizo, is that something that should be
27 reported?
28 A. Yes. 11610
Subject: May 23, 2005 
Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:23 pm
