1 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 517.
2 Q. 647.
3 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 518.
4 Q. 648. I have a note that it’s a notebook.
5 A. Upside down.
6 Q. Oh, okay.
7 A. Okay. That corresponds with Item -- I’m
8 sorry, Exhibit No. 519. And that is not the cover
9 page, but it is the second page within it, which
10 identifies what it is.
11 Q. All right. 649.
12 A. Corresponds with Exhibit No. 520.
13 Q. 650.
14 A. Corresponds with Exhibit No. 521.
15 Q. 3 -- I’m sorry, 651.
16 A. Corresponds with Exhibit No. 522.
17 Q. 652.
18 A. Corresponds with Exhibit No. 523.
19 Q. 653.
20 A. Corresponds with Exhibit No. 524, and it’s a
21 loose page.
22 Q. Okay. 654. And Y. That might help you.
23 317-Y.
24 A. Okay. That’s Item No. -- or, I’m sorry,
25 Exhibit No. 479, and that’s a centerfold. It’s one
26 of the pages of it.
27 Q. Okay. 655.
28 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 480, and that’s 3249
1 also one page within a centerfold.
2 Q. 656.
3 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 481, and that’s
4 also a centerfold.
5 Q. 657. You might want to look at 317-BB. I
6 think there’s --
7 A. Exhibit No. 525.
8 Q. Now, is there a -- never mind.
9 658.
10 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 483. It’s also a
11 centerfold.
12 Q. 659.
13 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 485. It’s a
14 centerfold.
15 Q. 660.
16 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 487. It’s a
17 loose page.
18 Q. 488. I’m sorry, 661.
19 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 488. It’s a
20 centerfold.
21 Q. 662.
22 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 489. It’s a
23 loose page.
24 Q. 663.
25 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 490, is the cover
26 off of the magazine.
27 Q. 664.
28 A. Exhibit No. 491. It’s a loose page. 3250
1 also one page within a centerfold.
2 Q. 656.
3 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 481, and that’s
4 also a centerfold.
5 Q. 657. You might want to look at 317-BB. I
6 think there’s --
7 A. Exhibit No. 525.
8 Q. Now, is there a -- never mind.
9 658.
10 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 483. It’s also a
11 centerfold.
12 Q. 659.
13 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 485. It’s a
14 centerfold.
15 Q. 660.
16 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 487. It’s a
17 loose page.
18 Q. 488. I’m sorry, 661.
19 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 488. It’s a
20 centerfold.
21 Q. 662.
22 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 489. It’s a
23 loose page.
24 Q. 663.
25 A. Corresponds to Exhibit No. 490, is the cover
26 off of the magazine.
27 Q. 664.
28 A. Exhibit No. 491. It’s a loose page. 3250
1 Q. 678.
2 A. Exhibit No. 506. Cover page of a magazine.
3 Q. 679.
4 A. Exhibit No. 507. Loose page.
5 Q. And 680.
6 A. Exhibit No. 508, centerfold.
7 Q. Lastly, 681.
8 A. Exhibit No. 528.
9 Q. All right. I think we can turn the lights
10 back on.
11 All right. I want to ask you some questions
12 with regard to the briefcase, Exhibit 470. Now, you
13 told the ladies and gentlemen of the jury I
14 believe -- I believe on November the 26th of 2003,
15 you opened the briefcase and photodocumented the
16 materials inside, correct.
17 A. That’s correct.
18 Q. And inventoried them.
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Now, when was the next time that you became
21 involved in dealing with the materials that were
22 contained inside of the black briefcase marked as
23 470.
24 A. On July 20th, 2004.
25 Q. And would you tell the ladies and gentlemen
26 of the jury exactly what it was that you did on
27 July 20th.
28 A. On July 20th, I went to the Santa Barbara 3252
1 Superior Court, met with the clerk who was in charge
2 of controlling the evidence that was booked in the
3 grand jury. And I, while wearing gloves, opened up
4 this item and photodocumented exactly what was
5 within there. That included not just the cover
6 pages, but every single page and every single piece
7 of paper that was inside that item that was booked
8 into grand jury evidence.
9 And I then closed it back up, gave it back
10 to the clerk who was maintaining custody of this
11 item, and I prepared a CDR disk that contained those
12 digital images that I took of the contents.
13 Q. Now, did you at some time go back -- did you
14 at some time again become involved in the handling
15 of the Exhibit 470.
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. When was the next time that you were
18 involved in that.
19 A. On October 1st, 2004.
20 Q. And the purpose for that. What did you do
21 and where did you go.
22 A. A court order was signed that allowed me to
23 check this item out of evidence and bring it back to
24 the sheriff’s department to have it forensically
25 examined and processed.
26 Q. Now, did you do that.
27 A. Yes, I did.
28 Q. And did you work with any other individual 3253
1 in that process.
2 A. I -- initially, after checking it out, I
3 brought it to Detective Lafferty. I later went back
4 and I met with Detective Spinner, and we went
5 through and did a much more detailed inventory of
6 those items to ensure that each one had a sub item
7 number.
8 Q. Now, Detective Spinner, do you know, he
9 works for the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Department.
10 A. Actually, he is retired, so --
11 Q. He was brought back for this case.
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. To do some fingerprint evaluation.
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Okay. Now, in the process of doing the --
16 what you call documentation of the alpha numbers
17 given to these, were some -- did Detective Spinner
18 already have some of the magazines at the time that
19 you went through this process.
20 A. That’s correct. Some of the items had
21 already been processed and were split up and in
22 binders, such as you see here today. Some of the
23 other items were not in binders. They were still in
24 complete magazine form.
25 Q. And the process that you did with Detective
26 Spinner was simply to make sure that all of those
27 items were accounted for; is that correct.
28 A. Correct. And to give each one a sub item 3254
1 number, and document that on something that was
2 written.
3 Q. And you did that.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And that’s why we see on the display here
6 that they have an A, B, C, and in some cases AA or
7 GG, or whatever.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. That was the process you documented with
10 Detective Spinner.
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Now, at the time that you went to the Santa
13 Barbara Superior Court on July 20th of 2004 and
14 photodocumented the contents of the Exhibit 740 (sic),
15 to your knowledge, had some items already been
16 removed and sent to forensic examination.
17 A. Prior to grand jury.
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And that’s documented in reports, correct.
21 A. I believe so. Not mine.
22 Q. Right.
23 MR. SNEDDON: Mr. Mesereau.
24 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
25 table.)
26 MR. SNEDDON: Madam Clerk, I’m going to need
27 two exhibit numbers. Next in order would be fine.
28 THE CLERK: It would -- have you used the 3255
1 numbers through 740 yet.
2 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me, Your Honor.
3 May the record reflect that I opened these
4 packages at Mr. Sneddon’s direction.
5 MR. SNEDDON: Actually, that one was open,
6 but the small one was closed, correct.
7 MR. MESEREAU: It would be No. 122980, and
8 that’s also No. 332.
9 THE COURT: All right.
10 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.
11 MR. SNEDDON: For the record, Your Honor,
12 the items that Mr. Mesereau just examined, I’m going
13 to have the first one marked, it’s a small brown
14 bag, which is the No. 332, which is the one he did
15 open, and that’s Exhibit 720 for identification
16 purposes.
17 And then the next one’s a larger brown bag
18 with Item No. #305 at the top, and that’s marked as
19 721, and that one was already opened.
20 THE COURT: All right.
21 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.
22 Q. Please take a look at 720. Do you recognize
23 that.
24 A. Yes, I do.
25 Q. And where was that the first time that you
26 saw it.
27 A. I found this item within a briefcase which
28 was in the upstairs area of Michael Jackson’s 3256
1 bedroom at Neverland Ranch.
2 Q. And did you then take it into your custody
3 and control.
4 A. I did.
5 Q. And what did you do with it.
6 A. I provided it to Detective Padilla, told him
7 where I found it, what it was. And he then
8 processed it, giving it an item number, sealing it.
9 Q. And is the exhibit in the same condition
10 that it was when you seized it on that particular
11 day.
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Move that it be
14 admitted into evidence, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: All right. It’s admitted.
16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And the next item is 721.
17 Do you recognize that item.
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. All right. And where was that item the
20 first item that you saw it.
21 A. This item was sitting on a piece of
22 furniture within one of the bathrooms in Michael
23 Jackson’s bedroom area.
24 Q. And it’s a photograph, correct.
25 A. It is.
26 Q. And do you recognize the person in the
27 photograph.
28 A. Yes, I do. It’s Macaulay Culkin. 3257
1 Q. And with regard to that particular exhibit,
2 go ahead and take it out of the bag for just a
3 second. Just look at it for yourself, if you would.
4 Now, with regard to that particular
5 exhibit -- 721; is that correct.
6 A. That’s correct.
7 Q. 721, it looks like, on the photograph that
8 you withdrew from the brown bag, it has some writing
9 on it, correct.
10 A. It does.
11 Q. Was that writing -- was it in that condition
12 when you first saw it.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did it have that writing on it.
15 A. Yes, it did.
16 Q. And then after you took that particular
17 item, what did you do with it.
18 A. I again took it down to Detective Padilla,
19 provided it to him, told him where I found it, what
20 it was. He then processed it by putting it into a
21 sealed evidence bag, and noting it on his report.
22 Q. And is it in the same condition as when you
23 seized the item on November the 11th.
24 A. For the most part.
25 Q. What’s different about it.
26 A. There’s a couple of corner pieces that have
27 fallen off into the bag.
28 Q. But they’re in the bag, correct. 3258
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. So everything in substance is there that was
3 there when you seized it.
4 A. Yes.
5 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Move that that be
6 admitted into evidence, Your Honor.
7 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.
8 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
9 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I think I’m
10 finished. No further questions. Thank you.
11 THE COURT: Cross-examine.
12 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please, Your Honor.
13
14 CROSS-EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. MESEREAU:
16 Q. You have answered questions about a large
17 number of what appear to be --
18 MR. SNEDDON: Tom, excuse me.
19 Your Honor, there is one other thing I
20 forgot to do. I’ve just been reminded.
21 If you don’t mind, Counsel.
22 MR. MESEREAU: No, not at all.
23 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you. Appreciate it,
24 Tom.
25 Your Honor, I have a photograph that’s been
26 marked as 151 for identification purposes. May I
27 show it to the witness.
28 THE COURT: Yes. 3259
1 FURTHER DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. SNEDDON:
3 Q. Do you recognize the items depicted in the
4 photograph, No. 151.
5 A. Yes, I do.
6 Q. Where and when were those items the first
7 time you saw them.
8 A. These items were situated on the ground
9 within one of the closets in Michael Jackson’s
10 bedroom area.
11 Q. Does that photograph accurately depict the
12 condition of those items at the time that you seized
13 them.
14 A. With the exception that I have picked them
15 up, yes.
16 Q. And you’ve picked them up.
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Move that 151 be
19 admitted into evidence, Your Honor.
20 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.
21 THE COURT: It’s admitted.
22 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Would you just
23 show to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the
24 photograph that’s in evidence.
25 Now, what -- where were those -- where were
26 those found specifically in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom.
27 A. Within his bedroom, there were two bathroom
28 areas. One, as you enter, was on the right. The 3260
1 other was on the left. Both bathroom areas had a
2 closet that went off of it. This one was on the
3 left side. It was a locked closet area. As you
4 entered the closet, it made an L shape going to the
5 left. It was within that L-shaped -- the bottom of
6 the L on the ground on the left side.
7 THE COURT: Counsel, can’t you put that up on
8 the screen so the people out there can see.
9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. I think we got --
10 I kind of interrupted you. Could you tell me where
11 exactly it was, what closet it was that you found it
12 in, what bathroom.
13 A. Okay. Again, there were two bathrooms: One
14 that was on the right as you entered; one that was
15 on the left. This one was on the left side. As you
16 entered the bathroom, there was a closet that went
17 off to the right. This was a locked closet that we
18 had opened. This closet was actually in an L shape.
19 As I went in, I went into the bottom of the L,
20 continued down, and it was on the left side on the
21 ground.
22 Q. And then did you actually take the items
23 depicted in the photograph, 152, in evidence, and
24 book them into evidence.
25 A. I took them down to Detective Padilla, again
26 told him where I found it, what they were, and he
27 then booked them.
28 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Thank you, 3261
1 Counsel.
2 And thank you, Court. No further questions.
3
4 FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. MESEREAU:
6 Q. Regarding the items that you were just shown
7 in the last exhibit, there’s a bottle of Jack
8 Daniels and a bottle of what appears to be red wine,
9 correct.
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Do you know if those bottles were ever
12 fingerprinted.
13 A. I do not know.
14 Q. Did you have any responsibility for
15 determining if they should be chemically tested for
16 anything.
17 A. Not responsibility, but involvement.
18 Q. And what was your involvement.
19 A. We spoke about it amongst all of us that
20 were part of the team at that point in time. And I
21 know that they were sent off for DNA swabbing, or
22 that they were swabbed, and that was sent off to be
23 compared. I do not know whether or not they were
24 fingerprinted.
25 Q. But they were DNA swabbed, as far as you
26 know.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Did you ever get any results. 3262
1 A. I believe there were no results.
2 Q. Okay. “No results” meaning what.
3 A. That we did not get any comparable DNA
4 matter off of them.
5 Q. Were you responsible for recommending DNA
6 testing of any of these materials that you’ve talked
7 about today.
8 A. Again, “responsible” probably isn’t the
9 word. “Involved” is probably the more correct word
10 to use.
11 Q. Do you know if any of the materials that
12 you’ve identified today were DNA tested.
13 A. I know that items within 317 were sent off
14 to the Department of Justice laboratory to ascertain
15 if there were materials on the items which could be
16 tested for DNA.
17 Q. And just -- just for the record, Item 317 is
18 what.
19 A. I’m sorry. It’s the briefcase that had
20 these materials in it.
21 Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, there was no
22 DNA found, correct.
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. And you’re talking about -- you’re talking
25 about DNA testing of the briefcase, correct.
26 A. Of the materials within the briefcase.
27 Q. Yes. Are you talking about the briefcase
28 itself, too. 3263
1 A. No.
2 Q. Okay. And what you’re saying is no DNA of
3 Gavin Arvizo, or Star Arvizo, or any Arvizo, were
4 found, correct.
5 A. No DNA at all, including theirs.
6 Q. Okay. Now, you say you were involved in
7 decisions regarding DNA testing, right.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. What does “involved” mean.
10 A. We had meetings where we discussed what was
11 going on, who was going to do what, and we -- this
12 type of -- you know, it included dispositions of
13 evidence, who was going to go do interviews with
14 whom. And we spoke about what we wanted to do and
15 in what order that we wanted to do it.
16 Q. And who was at these meetings typically.
17 A. Typically would include, at minimum,
18 Lieutenant Klapakis, Sergeant Robel, Detective
19 Zelis, Detective Alvarez, and myself, and many times
20 also included members of the prosecution.
21 Q. Now, you’ve identified a lot of what appear
22 to be commercially produced adult material, right.
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And all of it appears to be commercially
25 produced, for the most part, doesn’t it.
26 A. For the most part, yes.
27 Q. And all of it appears to be the type of
28 material you can lawfully purchase, correct. 3264
1 A. Depends.
2 Q. Well, you can go to most magazine stands
3 that sell this kind of material and find thousands
4 of magazines that you can buy like that, correct.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And it goes without saying,
7 Mr. Jackson is not being charged with possessing or
8 anything related to this kind -- illegal adult
9 material, is he.
10 A. We have not charged as such, no.
11 Q. Okay. Have you actually checked to see if
12 you can find these magazines available in a
13 commercial market type of situation.
14 A. No, I have not.
15 Q. Have you gone to newsstands to see if you
16 can find this material available at newsstands.
17 A. No.
18 Q. Have you ever done any -- made any effort to
19 find out where you can actually go buy this stuff.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Okay. And you don’t know where a lot of
22 this material originated, correct.
23 A. I do not.
24 Q. You don’t know if it was mailed to Mr.
25 Jackson or purchased on his behalf, correct.
26 A. For the most part, no.
27 Q. Okay. With respect to DNA testing, was the
28 DNA testing that you’re aware of limited to 3265
1 materials in the briefcase.
2 A. As far as I’m aware of, yes.
3 Q. Okay. And as far as the other exhibits
4 you’ve talked about today, which appear to be, for
5 the most, part adult material, you’re not aware of
6 any DNA testing on those exhibits, correct.
7 A. I am not.
8 Q. If any were done, would you most likely know
9 about it.
10 A. Probably, yes.
11 Q. And that would be because of your
12 involvement that you’ve just described.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. Now, were you involved in actually
15 searching and seizing some of this material.
16 A. Yes, I was.
17 Q. Okay. Was that your primary role during the
18 day of the search.
19 A. Initially it was not.
20 Q. What initially was your role.
21 A. Initially myself and Detective Alvarez were
22 assigned to go conduct an interview with a witness.
23 Q. Okay. And then following that, you went to
24 Mr. Jackson’s main residence, correct.
25 A. Neverland, correct.
26 Q. And you started conducting a search, right.
27 A. Initially, again, I was assigned to assist
28 in interviews. 3266
1 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, let me ask some questions
2 about Exhibits 471 to 529. Okay. And they’re the
3 items that you say were found inside of 470, which
4 is the black briefcase, right.
5 A. Item 3 -- I’m sorry, I normally know things
6 by our item numbers.
7 Q. The black briefcase is Item 470, right.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And Exhibits 471 to 529 were found inside of
10 that briefcase, right. Do you know.
11 A. I -- I cannot -- if you show me the item, I
12 mean, obviously we’re dealing with a lot of numbers
13 here. If you tell me, like, our evidence item, I
14 can tell you whether or not it came from that.
15 Q. Let me approach it from a different way.
16 I think you said at one point, in response
17 to the prosecutor’s questions, that you had checked
18 out items out of 470, which is the black briefcase,
19 correct.
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And I believe you said those items were 471
22 to 529.
23 A. I have identified them as such by
24 cross-referencing them, looking at the materials,
25 looking at the actual physical items and also
26 checking it against our evidence item number, which
27 is how we track items, as opposed to the court
28 tracking of items. 3267
1 Q. Am I correct that you testified you checked
2 out Items 471 to 529.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Okay. So you know what they are, right.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And presumably before you testified today,
7 you went over some of this with the prosecutor for
8 the government, right.
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Okay. And when did you do that.
11 A. I did that on Tuesday.
12 Q. Okay. Did you have any items of evidence
13 with you at that point.
14 A. No, I did not.
15 Q. Okay. How did you discuss what numbers you
16 were going to testify about. Maybe that’s not a
17 good question.
18 You clearly discussed what numbers you were
19 going to testify about, true.
20 A. Correct. Yes.
21 Q. And did you use anything to facilitate your
22 ability to prepare for your testimony today.
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. What did you use.
25 A. District Attorney Sneddon provided me, one,
26 with the pictures that he has introduced.
27 Q. Okay.
28 A. They also were in possession of the actual 3268
1 physical evidence items, okay. I also compared that
2 with my reports that I authored and with pictures
3 that we have taken.
4 Q. Okay. Now, you took them out originally.
5 Was it at the sheriff’s department.
6 A. The first time.
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And what did you do with them.
10 A. I pulled them -- I opened up, for instance,
11 on this particular one, the briefcase, broke the
12 seals, I opened it up. I then inspected the
13 contents of it. As I was doing that, I was
14 dictating a report of the contents of it, and taking
15 photographs of the contents. Once that was
16 completed, I then put the materials back where they
17 were originally, closed it, sealed it, and then
18 booked it back into evidence.
19 Q. And were you alone when you did that.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. At some point, did you separate some of
22 these materials yourself.
23 A. For Item 317.
24 Q. Any item.
25 A. Item 309, yes.
26 Q. What you did was you took the item apart,
27 right.
28 A. I took two of the items which were contained 3269
1 within the original evidence, Item 309, which was
2 the briefcase, that being the two adult material
3 DVDs, and I put them into the separate bag.
4 Q. Okay. Did you ever separate any of the
5 photographs that are contained in the exhibits you
6 referred to today.
7 A. No.
8 Q. Okay. Did you ever pull any pages or photos
9 out from any attached type of magazine.
10 A. No.
11 Q. Okay. Do you know if anybody ever did.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Somebody did.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Who did that.
16 A. Forensics personnel.
17 Q. So they took magazines and actually
18 separated pages out, correct.
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Okay. And do you know when that was done.
21 A. I do not.
22 Q. Okay. How do you know it was done.
23 A. I have read reports. And again, during our
24 meetings where we discussed what’s going on with the
25 case, again I’ve heard conversation to that effect.
26 Q. And were the items then returned to you.
27 A. No, they would have been returned to the
28 evidence locker, to our property office. 3270
1 Q. So they would have been returned to the
2 evidence locker, separated out from what they
3 originally were like, right.
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And basically what you’re saying is people
6 at forensics, when asked to test a particular item,
7 would take that item apart, right.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And your understanding was they would take
10 that item apart, because that would facilitate
11 forensic analysis of some kind, right.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. And you were part of the -- you were
14 part of the group that decided which items to
15 forensically test in that manner, correct.
16 A. Discussed. Decisions are done at a higher
17 level than a detective.
18 Q. Who made the decisions to forensically test
19 some items and not forensically test others.
20 A. At minimum, probably with Lieutenant
21 Klapakis, and it probably also involved members of
22 the prosecution.
23 Q. Okay. And that would be Prosecutor Sneddon,
24 Zonen, Auchincloss.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Okay. All right. Now, there must have been
27 meetings where you had discussed whether or not to
28 forensically test certain items, correct. 3271
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And you would presumably look at an item and
3 decide, “Do we want to test this or not,” right.
4 A. Sometimes look at them; sometimes they
5 weren’t checked out. For the most part we check
6 them out one time, and allow them to look at them,
7 just like we allowed you guys to look at them. And
8 based upon that, we categorized them and began to
9 make a priority list of which items should be done
10 first.
11 Q. Now, am I correct that no forensic testing
12 of any of the items you’ve identified today was done
13 till after the grand jury met.
14 A. I do not believe that’s correct.
15 Q. Okay. What items that you identified today
16 were forensically tested before the grand jury
17 convened.
18 A. I believe certain items within 317 were
19 forensically tested and subsequently sent out to the
20 California Department of Justice for further
21 testing.
22 Q. Okay. And were you involved in that
23 process.
24 A. No, I wasn’t.
25 Q. Okay. Well, to this date, you’ve never
26 found Gavin, or Star, or any Arvizos’ DNA on
27 anything, right.
28 A. We have not. 3272
1 Q. So the first time you checked out Items 471
2 to 529 was to photograph them, as you just
3 described, right.
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And then you repackaged them and put them
6 back in the condition you found them and rebooked
7 them into evidence, right.
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. Okay. Were you responsible for conducting
10 any fingerprint analysis of any of the items
11 contained in 470, the briefcase.
12 A. None whatsoever.
13 Q. Okay. Do you often do that in your type of
14 work.
15 A. Never have.
16 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with what is called
17 ALS, an alternate light source type of test for
18 fluids.
19 A. Yes, I am.
20 Q. Do you know if that was ever done on any of
21 the items you’ve identified today.
22 A. I believe it has.
23 Q. And which items would they be.
24 A. I believe it was done with certain items
25 within Item 317.
26 Q. Were you part of the group that decided to
27 make that type of test or, excuse me, to do that
28 type of test. 3273
1 A. I was part of the group that discussed it.
2 Again, the decision would have been made, but, yes,
3 I was aware of it.
4 Q. Now, if a decision was made to do forensic
5 testing, would you be the one to essentially refer
6 it to forensic people in this case.
7 A. Not in this case, no.
8 Q. You’ve done it in other cases, though,
9 right.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Typically, once a decision was made, who
12 would be the one to actually be responsible for
13 referring an item of evidence for forensic analysis.
14 A. Typically.
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. Under any other or most other instances, it
17 would be the lead investigating officer.
18 Q. Okay. And in this case, who were you
19 referring to.
20 A. Well, in this case Detective -- or Sergeant
21 Robel was the lead investigating officer.
22 Q. Okay. So as far as you know, was he the one
23 that had the responsibility, once a decision was
24 made, to refer an item of evidence for forensic
25 examination.
26 A. In this particular case, I believe it would
27 have been actually Lieutenant Klapakis.
28 Q. Okay. Okay. Let’s get back to the first 3274
1 time you removed items from the black briefcase,
2 which is No. 470. You put them back, and do you
3 know what -- you rebooked them into evidence. And
4 to your knowledge, what happened after that to that
5 black briefcase.
6 A. Other than the times that I personally came
7 into contact with it, I have not had any contact.
8 I don’t know for certain. However, I do know that
9 we have checked items out for you guys to look at,
10 as well as for the prosecuting attorneys to look at,
11 and then it has gone out to grand jury, and then
12 also to forensics personnel.
13 Q. Okay. When did you next handle the black
14 briefcase, No. 470, and its contents.
15 A. That would have been on July 20th.
16 Q. And again, the purpose for that was.
17 A. There was a court order that basically
18 stated, prior to us being able to remove these
19 items, I had to go and photographically document the
20 contents of the item, and turn those photographs
21 over to you guys, and eventually to provide a copy
22 to the court as a replacement for what we were
23 taking.
24 Q. Okay. And did you repackage these items
25 again.
26 A. I put them back into the briefcase.
27 Q. And how did you do that.
28 A. Put them back in where I found them as I 3275
1 opened it.
2 Q. And you had gloves on your hand, correct.
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. Did you have gloves on your hands at all
5 times when you handled 470.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Would that include at the main residence as
8 well during the day of the search.
9 A. I didn’t handle Item 470 at the main
10 residence.
11 Q. Never touched it that day.
12 A. No.
13 Q. Now, to your knowledge, an alternative light
14 source type of test can be done in approximately a
15 day, correct.
16 A. I don’t know how long it takes.
17 Q. Okay. And to your knowledge, it’s not a
18 destructive type of test, meaning it doesn’t
19 actually --
20 A. No.
21 Q. -- harm or destroy an item of evidence,
22 right.
23 A. No.
24 Q. Okay. And I think what you’re saying is at
25 some point people at forensics must have repackaged
26 the material and sent it back to re-book it into
27 evidence, right.
28 A. Correct. 3276
1 Q. Okay. Were you part of that process at all.
2 A. No.
3 Q. Okay. Is it true, based upon what you know,
4 that no fingerprint analysis of Item 470, the black
5 briefcase and its contents, was done till
6 approximately one year after the search at
7 Neverland.
8 A. That sounds about correct.
9 Q. Okay. Were you involved in the decision to
10 wait that long --
11 A. No.
12 Q. -- to test it.
13 In fact, those items in 470, the black
14 briefcase and the contents, were not tested for
15 fingerprints till approximately November of 2004,
16 right.
17 A. I know it happened after I checked it out.
18 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, you appear to have
19 focused on Item 470 more than you did a lot of the
20 adult magazines you discussed today, correct.
21 A. What do you mean by --
22 Q. Well, you seem to have been handling and
23 repackaging and handling and repackaging 470 --
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. -- in a way that you were not with a lot of
26 the adult material that you referred to today,
27 correct.
28 A. Correct. 3277
1 Q. But, are you saying that the question
2 whether or not to forensically test that material
3 all came up for discussion with the group of people
4 you mentioned.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And typically would the group sit
7 around and look at something and decide where it was
8 found and make a decision whether or not to test it.
9 A. We wouldn’t look at it. Again, we would
10 discuss it. These items were, at the time, in
11 evidence lock-up still, and basically we went
12 through what was found, what was found within it,
13 and how it correlated to the case that we were
14 investigating and prioritized from that.
15 Q. Okay. Okay. With regard to the items
16 you’ve discussed today other than 470, do you
17 recall, after they were initially booked into
18 evidence, your retrieving them for any purpose.
19 A. Again, the first time was when I pulled it
20 out to inventory the contents. I have also pulled
21 it out for you guys to look at, as well as for
22 members of the prosecution to look at, and that’s
23 what I -- and then also to bring them to court.
24 Q. Okay.
25 THE COURT: Counsel.
26 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
27 THE COURT: I want to handle the break a
28 little differently. 3278
1 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
2 THE COURT: I’d like to have the jury taken
3 out now. We’ll start your break a couple minutes
4 early. That’s a reward.
5 (Laughter.)
6 THE COURT: And then we’ll start our break
7 just in a couple of minutes for the people in the
8 courtroom. I just want to address an issue.
9 You can step down, Officer. We’re on our
10 break.
11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
12
13 (The following proceedings were held in
14 open court outside the presence and hearing of the
15 jury:)
16
17 THE COURT: All right. I was just going to
18 make a ruling. I told you this morning that I had a
19 tentative ruling, which I gave you, and I wanted to
20 look at the materials a little further that were
21 submitted to the Court before I made my ruling.
22 The Court will grant the defense motion not
23 to allow that evidence in. The primary reason is,
24 it does appear to be cached material. There
25 wouldn’t be any way of knowing whether anyone looked
26 at it or not. It doesn’t seem to be material, as it
27 doesn’t relate to the area -- the time area that I’m
28 talking about. So that will be the Court’s ruling. 3279
1 We’re in recess.
2 MR. SANGER: Your Honor --
3 THE CLERK: We did not have those exhibits
4 marked.
5 THE COURT: Oh, I need those exhibits marked
6 that you referred to in your opening --
7 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Okay. Yes. That’s fine.
8 THE COURT: -- these.
9 (Recess taken.)
10
11 (The following proceedings were held in
12 open court in the presence and hearing of the
13 jury:)
14
15 THE COURT: Go ahead, Counsel.
16 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
17 No further questions.
18 (Laughter.)
19 THE COURT: Anything further, Counsel.
20 MR. SNEDDON: Unfortunately, yes. It will
21 be brief.
22
23 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. SNEDDON:
25 Q. You were asked by Mr. Mesereau with regard
26 to the time frame for which the contents of 3 --
27 what you call 317, we’re calling 470, the black
28 briefcase, okay. 3280
1 A. Okay.
2 Q. They were sent for fingerprint analysis
3 around November of 2004, correct.
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. All right. Now, with regard to those items
6 inside of that briefcase, were they sent to other
7 forensic evaluation prior to the time that they were
8 fingerprinted.
9 A. Yes, they were.
10 Q. Was that according to the game plan that was
11 put together by the group as to how those things
12 should be processed.
13 A. Yes, they were.
14 Q. And the forensic analysis for the same
15 exhibits that were eventually fingerprinted began
16 very early on.
17 A. Yes, it was.
18 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further.
19 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions, Your
20 Honor
21 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may
22 step down.
23 Call your next witness.
24 THE BAILIFF: Mr. Zonen is --
25 MR. SNEDDON: Everybody’s leaving me, Judge.
26 THE BAILIFF: Mr. Zonen went to get your
27 next witness.
28 MR. SNEDDON: They’re getting him. Mr. 3281
1 Auchincloss’s witness, Your Honor. He should be
2 coming.
3 THE COURT: Oh, I decided the time Monday for
4 you to come in is 11:30. We’ll start the jury at
5 11:30.
6 A JUROR: Thank you.
7 THE COURT: Come forward, please.
8 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, our next
9 witness will be Dr. Antonio Cantu.
10 THE COURT: Come forward to the witness
11 stand, please. When you get to the witness stand,
12 remain standing, face the clerk and raise your right
13 hand.
14
15 ANTONIO A. CANTU
16 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
17
18 THE WITNESS: I do.
19 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
20 spell your name for the record.
21 THE WITNESS: Thank you. My name is Antonio
22 A. Cantu. Last name is spelled C-a-n-t-u.
23 THE CLERK: Thank you.
24 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, could I inquire who
25 the people are who are standing in the aisleway.
26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, you may.
27 Your Honor --
28 MR. SANGER: I did ask the Court. 3282
1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m sorry.
2 THE COURT: The Court doesn’t know.
3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: So I will be happy to
4 explain.
5 THE COURT: Go ahead.
6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, as we
7 mentioned in chambers, we have a demonstration of
8 the Scenescope, which is the technology that was
9 used in this case for purposes of finding latent
10 fingerprints.
11 And if -- with the Court’s permission, I
12 would like to allow our -- Detective Sutcliffe to
13 set up the Scenescope while I’m beginning my
14 examination.
15 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.
16 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: If that’s permissible.
17
18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:
20 Q. Good afternoon, Dr. Cantu.
21 A. Good afternoon, sir.
22 Q. Who do you work for, please.
23 A. I work for the United States Secret Service,
24 the Forensic Services Division within the United
25 States Secret Service.
26 Q. And what do you do for the Secret Service.
27 A. I am the chief scientist, research
28 scientist, for the Forensic Services Division. And 3283
1 my many duties includes the chemistry and physics of
2 things having to do with documents. For example,
3 fingerprints, or inks on paper, or any other items
4 that may be found on a document.
5 Q. How long have you worked for the Secret
6 Service in this capacity.
7 A. Well, I’ve been with the Secret Service
8 about 20 years. And I’ve been working in this
9 particular area, among others, for that extended
10 period of time.
11 Q. And tell me about what training you’ve had
12 that qualifies you for your position there. Maybe
13 I’ll back up. First of all, tell me specifically
14 what your title is with the Secret Service.
15 A. I’m a chief forensic scientist.
16 Q. And what qualifies you for that position.
17 What training have you had.
18 A. Well, first of all, I have a degree in
19 chemistry. Chemical physics, actually. And I’ve
20 had some training in -- in forensic science. I
21 spent about ten years at the Bureau of Alcohol,
22 Tobacco and Firearms Laboratory, where I developed
23 the expertise particularly in the area of the
24 analysis of documents from a chemical and physical
25 point of view.
26 Q. Have you had -- tell me about your
27 experiences with the Secret Service. Have your --
28 in terms of what work you’ve done for them in the 3284
1 past.
2 A. Most of the work that I have done for the
3 Secret Service falls into two general areas. I
4 spent part of my time over there doing some work in
5 the area called protective research, which has to do
6 with coming up with countermeasures to possible
7 threats that would involve chemical, or biological,
8 or different materials.
9 But the rest of the time has been really the
10 area of forensic science, where my expertise has
11 been mostly in the area of the analysis of documents
12 from a chemical and physical point of view, as I
13 mentioned.
14 Q. Have you had any published papers in the
15 area of forensic science.
16 A. I’ve already published about 26 papers that
17 I have in the field of forensic science.
18 Q. Any of them in fingerprint analysis, or --
19 A. There are -- about seven of those are in
20 fingerprints, and two are pending publication at the
21 moment.
22 Q. How long have you been involved in the
23 chemistry of fingerprints.
24 A. In excess of 20 years.
25 Q. And can you tell me what the International
26 Fingerprint Research Group is.
27 A. That is a group of international experts
28 that, most of which, specialize in the area of 3285
1 coming up with new technology for visualizing
2 fingerprints, for developing fingerprints. And they
3 are -- the biggest centers involved in this are
4 Israel, England, Australia, and of course us in the
5 United States.
6 And we started that group at the U.S. Secret
7 Service back in the middle ‘80s. And now we meet
8 every couple of years, different parts of the --
9 Europe and the United States and Canada.
10 Q. Are you involved in developing new
11 techniques in locating latent fingerprints.
12 A. Yes. New techniques particularly in the
13 visualization of fingerprints. We are responsible
14 for developing a new technique for visualizing
15 fingerprints, particularly those that are visualized
16 normally by the use of ninhydrin. And it’s a
17 technique for essentially looking at fingerprints on
18 paper and coming up with better, more sensitive
19 methods.
20 There’s another technique for looking at the
21 fats and oils in fingerprints, and we helped develop
22 new advances in that area, being able to bring them
23 out better, and looking at weaker prints and being
24 able to see them better with this technology.
25 And then thirdly, I’ve been involved in a
26 technique that has to do with the use of ultraviolet
27 light basically in visualizing fingerprints.
28 Q. Tell me, what does the term “latent 3286
1 fingerprint” mean.
2 A. It’s not noticeable. I mean, it’s basically
3 a fingerprint that is not noticeable to the human
4 eye but becomes noticeable by means of either
5 chemical or physical techniques.
6 Q. And can you explain for the jury exactly
7 what it is, from a chemistry point of view, that
8 creates a fingerprint on a surface when a human hand
9 touches it.
10 A. Well, our fingers bear certain chemicals on
11 them. These chemicals are on the surface of the
12 hand. And every time you touch something, there is
13 some transferability of those chemicals onto the
14 surface that you touch.
15 And what we do, in our field, is try to find
16 methods of making those things be visible, either by
17 optical methods or chemical methods or physical
18 methods. And to be able to do that, one has to,
19 first of all, know what is in fingerprint residue,
20 that is, what chemicals, so you know what sort of
21 reagents to use to make them visible. So that’s the
22 general philosophy of -- that is used in developing
23 fingerprints.
24 Q. Can I have just a moment.
25 A. Yes.
26 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel
27 table.)
28 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: All right. So tell me 3287
1 specifically -- you mentioned that there are
2 biological substances that are left behind by a
3 fingerprint, by the human hand.
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Okay. Are those -- can you describe the
6 basic grouping of chemicals that are left behind by
7 a human fingerprint.
8 A. There are several chemicals. I can
9 generally group them into those that are
10 water-soluble chemicals, and they include amino
11 acids, and those that are water insoluble, and they
12 are the ones that are normally referred to as the
13 fats or oils, or more precisely, lipids.
14 And the water-soluble ones contain amino
15 acids, proteins, salts, and other things. But it is
16 the amino acids that are really the target items
17 that we look at to try to visualize these things.
18 As far as the water insoluble ones, it’s usually the
19 lipids or the fats and oils that we use as the
20 materials that we target chemicals or methods to be
21 able to visualize these.
22 Q. So, tell me, what are the biological origins
23 of the water-soluble group of materials that is left
24 in fingerprints.
25 A. Well, I’ll give you an answer to both the
26 water soluble and water insoluble. The water
27 soluble ones are the ones that are found mostly on
28 the palms of your hand or the soles of your feet. 3288
1 And there you have one type of gland referred to as
2 an eccrine gland, and they are the ones that release
3 the amino acids and certain proteins that are water
4 dispersible, and certain salts.
5 But there are other glands as well. There’s
6 some that you have that are different from the
7 eccrine gland. The armpits or the groin area have
8 glands referred to as apocrine glands, and they
9 release other forms of water-soluble material.
10 And then the third group of glands that we
11 have in our skin are referred to as the sebaceous
12 glands, and these are the ones that actually put out
13 the -- the lipids or the fats and oils. And they
14 exist in the scalp and the face and the nose area.
15 But -- and of course the -- anywhere where you have
16 hair you would have these glands as well.
17 Q. So if I understand correctly, your hand
18 doesn’t have any oil glands.
19 A. That’s correct.
20 Q. Or fingers.
21 MR. SANGER: I’m sorry, I’m going to
22 interrupt for just a second.
23 I understand Detective Sutcliffe is going to
24 be a witness, and I didn’t object to him just coming
25 in during the preliminaries here and helping to set
26 this up, but I don’t think he should be here during
27 the testimony.
28 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: That’s fine. I will call 3289
1 him back for the demonstration, if that’s
2 permissible.
3 MR. SANGER: But all witnesses are excluded
4 on both sides.
5 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I did notify counsel that
6 Detective Sutcliffe was here setting it up when he
7 was doing so.
8 (To Detective Sutcliffe) All right. We’ll
9 call you back in, Detective, as soon as we get to
10 the demonstration. Thank you.
11 Q. All right. So getting back to these
12 substances that leave fingerprints, there’s no
13 lipids or oil glands, sebaceous glands, in your
14 fingertips; is that true.
15 A. True. Yes, that is correct.
16 Q. But sometimes you will leave lipids or oils
17 or fatty substances that are produced by your body
18 by your sebaceous glands on a fingerprint.
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. And how does the oil get on the finger.
21 A. Normally by touching your face or your hair
22 would be one way of transferring that material onto
23 your fingers.
24 Q. I see. And is that a common way of
25 establishing a fingerprint that’s based on fatty
26 oils, or oils.
27 A. Yes. If you find the fatty oils in there,
28 it’s usually assumed that they come from that 3290
1 contact, or perhaps handling something exogenous,
2 something outside, like face creams and lotions or
3 food.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Stuff like that.
6 Q. So is that a third grouping that can produce
7 a fingerprint. Foreign substances.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Nonbiological substances, or something that
10 came outside the body.
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. Okay. So, tell me, explain to me what
13 optical methods are used in visualizing these latent
14 prints when they’re left behind.
15 A. Optical methods would be -- there are about
16 four methods that I will describe. One of them is
17 just a visual examination of the material that
18 you’re looking at that may have the fingerprints.
19 And occasionally lighting in a certain direction.
20 Or if a print, for example, is one which is found on
21 something like clay or putty, you can actually see
22 the imprint in there, very, very simply. And --
23 otherwise, you have to use other methods.
24 Now, there are cases as well where you have
25 a print that’s heavy laden with material, and you
26 touch something, and then you can say, “Oh, you made
27 a smudge on the glass,” or, “a smudge on the T.V.,”
28 or, “a smudge on my screen.” That’s, again, some of 3291
1 the residue that you leave behind. And sometimes
2 that could be actually seen without anything else
3 but just proper illumination. When some of these
4 fail and cannot be photographed or documented, then
5 there are other methods that are used.
6 For example, you could use ultraviolet
7 light. And there’s certain proteins and amino acids
8 that actually fluoresce in -- when illuminated with
9 ultraviolet light. They fluoresce in the
10 ultraviolet. Tryptophan is one such material that
11 does that. And for that, you illuminate with the
12 ultraviolet light and view it in the ultraviolet
13 region.
14 And then there are other cases in which you
15 may find fluorescence, but in this case, visible.
16 That is, you illuminate with a visible light and
17 then block it with, for example, a green light
18 produced by a laser, and then you block that with
19 orange goggles and you see some fluoresence. And if
20 it’s inherent, if it comes from the skin, that is
21 normally due to perhaps bilirubin - that’s a
22 biological chemical - that may be in the hand.
23 And then lastly, a method that is used for
24 very smooth surfaces, very glass-like surfaces,
25 would be a reflectance technique. You illuminate,
26 and you view this thing in a reflected mode. And
27 the most sensitive of those would be viewing in the
28 ultraviolet. That is, you illuminate with 3292
1 ultraviolet, then you have to have something that
2 sees in the ultraviolet. So there’s imaging devices
3 that are capable of viewing in the ultraviolet, and
4 that’s what we use.
5 Q. So if I understand correctly, you might use
6 different methods depending upon the surface. Is
7 that fair to say.
8 A. That’s --
9 Q. For looking for latents.
10 A. That’s correct.
11 Q. And is it also fair to say that different
12 methods might capture a fingerprint that is
13 amino-acid based or water-soluble based. True.
14 A. Uh --
15 Q. Some methods are designed to capture the
16 protein-based residue. Is that fair to say.
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And are some methods more suitable for
19 capturing the oil-based residue.
20 A. Yes, that is correct.
21 Q. Okay. So I didn’t ask you this question,
22 but I think the jury understands it.
23 Is it true that the -- the amino or protein
24 product that might be left behind, is that something
25 that comes from the finger itself.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Okay. So the amino acids are something that
28 your finger secretes. 3293
1 A. That is correct.
2 Q. Okay. All right. So tell me, if I touch
3 something, does that mean it’s going to leave a
4 fingerprint.
5 A. Not necessarily.
6 Q. And why do you say that.
7 A. Well, there are several reasons why it may
8 not, and one of them is your hand is quite dry and
9 just doesn’t transfer anything.
10 And secondly, the surface may be one that
11 sort of rejects any sort of materials that may be
12 put on it and it doesn’t have the absorbency of the
13 material that’s on your finger.
14 And then thirdly, the surface may be quite
15 corrugated or textured and it -- the transfer may be
16 there, but it’s not very resolvable.
17 Q. Is it fair to say that textured objects are
18 poor surfaces for fingerprints.
19 A. Generally, yes, they are. Depending on the
20 roughness of the surface.
21 Q. For shiny, smooth paper, such as you might
22 find in a magazine, can you please describe how one
23 detects latent fingerprints that that magazine may
24 hold.
25 A. Well, I mentioned earlier, I answered the
26 question about the optical methods, and one of the
27 optical methods that I mentioned earlier was the
28 fact that if you have a very smooth surface or 3294
1 glass-like surface, you could use these reflected
2 ultraviolet techniques.
3 And for something that’s a very, very smooth
4 surface, like a magazine paper, something like that,
5 one of the first techniques that I would use would
6 be to see if it could be visualized without doing
7 anything to it; that is, just by seeing if this
8 technique of reflected ultraviolet visualization
9 will bring out anything.
10 And then the next step --
11 Q. Let’s stop right there. What do you mean by
12 “reflected ultraviolet”. Tell me specifically what
13 you do to examine this piece of paper for
14 fingerprints without the aid of anything else, other
15 than perhaps reflected ultraviolet.
16 A. I’ll do it by means of an example.
17 Q. Okay.
18 A. If you put, for example, your finger on a
19 piece of glass, that’s a very smooth surface. You
20 sometimes can turn that glass around and actually
21 see the print on there.
22 When you view it in the ultraviolet, that’s
23 magnified immensely, and it’s due to the fact that
24 the fingerprint residue itself becomes very
25 reflective. And secondly, it -- it’s a scatter
26 media for the light. It just casts the light and
27 reflects it in multi directions. The fingerprint
28 material becomes like micromirrors. It becomes very 3295
1 reflective in UV. And that’s essentially how this
2 thing is able to enter the fingerprint on a very
3 smooth surface. And of course paper that is very
4 glossy is of this category as well.
5 Q. So is that -- ultraviolet light, is that
6 synonymous with ALS, or alternative light source.
7 A. No, sir.
8 Q. That’s something different.
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. Okay. So if you were -- looked at it with
11 ultraviolet light, would that be something different
12 than a Scenescope.
13 A. No.
14 Q. It would be the same as a scenescope.
15 A. It is similar to a Scenescope.
16 Q. Okay. Would you use -- now, I guess the
17 common notion is that ultraviolet light is something
18 like a black light.
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. Okay. Is that what we’re talking about
21 here.
22 A. A little more than that.
23 Q. Tell me what you mean.
24 A. “Black light” that you normally hear is what
25 you may see in places of entertainment where they
26 have the ultraviolet light tubes called “black
27 lights.” That light is ultraviolet, but it’s -- the
28 wavelength of it is -- first of all, it’s for the 3296
1 eye safe reason, and that’s the same sort of
2 ultraviolet that the sun puts out.
3 The one I’m talking about is shorter
4 wavelength. It is the ultraviolet light that the
5 sun puts out, but it’s sort of blocked by the ozone
6 layer of the earth. You don’t get those rays, the
7 shorter wavelength rays.
8 And the reason this technology works so well
9 is because the shorter the wavelength, the better
10 you can see this surface roughness that may be
11 caused by the fingerprint on the object. And the
12 shorter the wavelength, the less that surface has to
13 be in size. In other words, the shorter the
14 wavelength -- the one that we use is called 254
15 nanometers. That can detect roughnesses or it can
16 scatter the roughness of one 100,000ths of an inch.
17 So it works very well for very, very light
18 fingerprints on surfaces.
19 Q. Okay. So tell me what a ridge is.
20 A. Well, a ridge is the -- in a fingerprint, it
21 is the raised portion of the fingerprint that
22 meanders throughout the finger.
23 Q. So it’s like one of the lines in the
24 fingerprint.
25 A. That’s correct.
26 Q. So using that as an example, a ridge would
27 be material that is on the surface that you’re
28 looking at. Is that fair to say. 3297
1 A. That’s correct. When you transfer the
2 chemicals, you actually transfer the pattern that’s
3 found on the ridges.
4 Q. Okay. And when the light hits the ridge,
5 you said it scatters. Can you give me a little
6 better idea what that means.
7 A. Yes. When the light hits the ridge, it
8 actually reflects, and -- but in multiple
9 directions.
10 Q. And if I understand correctly, the
11 ultraviolet light will reflect in multiple
12 directions, but the daylight that we have is too big
13 a wavelength to scatter and make the print visible.
14 A. It doesn’t scatter as well.
15 Q. Okay. So the ultraviolet light with the
16 shorter wavelength scatters better.
17 A. That is correct.
18 Q. And allows you to see the print better.
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. Okay. Now, that was the first method. We
21 just started talking about the methods of trying to
22 find fingerprints on a magazine. What next. What
23 else would you do on shiny magazine paper.
24 A. Okay. What we described so far is -- you
25 know, there’s no chemical treatment. No nothing.
26 You just see the raw fingerprint.
27 The next step that you would do on surfaces
28 like that, or any nonporous surface as well, would 3298
1 be to use fuming with a gas. And the gas is
2 referred to as cyanoacrylate ester, or better known
3 as super glue. And the super glue gases, when they
4 see, for example, fingerprint residue, they see in
5 it things that trigger its polymerization, basically
6 a material that is basic, like amino acids. It
7 also -- water is another substance, or moisture
8 triggers this condensation and polymerization of the
9 cyanoacrylate material that’s in the gaseous form,
10 and that basically forms around the fingerprint and
11 becomes another way of visualizing the fingerprint.
12 Normally they appear whitish in color after
13 you finish doing the polymerization. So in essence,
14 you put the material in this vapor, and the
15 polymerization occurs around the fingerprint. And
16 then you pull it out, and you sometimes can see the
17 fingerprint in there. But it does a couple of
18 things. It hardens the fingerprint, and it also
19 makes it just slightly bigger than what it was
20 before as far as the thickness.
21 So, if you don’t see the fingerprint by
22 means of this method, then you can submit it again
23 to the ultraviolet reflection, and the super glue
24 treatment actually enhances, even, that more.
25 I’ve seen cases where, for example, I had a
26 substance in which I saw, let’s say, ten
27 fingerprints using the RUVIS -- I’m sorry, using the
28 ultraviolet technique. It’s referred to as 3299
1 Reflected Ultraviolet Imaging System. I just called
2 it RUVIS, but that’s what it stands for.
3 And then I did super gluing, and multiple
4 more fingerprints showed up after that with the
5 RUVIS, with the Reflected Ultraviolet System.
6 Q. So you take a magazine, and you said you
7 somehow coat it with this super glue. Is that how
8 it works. You put a very fine coat of super glue on
9 the magazine.
10 A. It only condenses primarily around the
11 portions where the fingerprint residue is.
12 Q. Okay. And is this cyanoacrylate, whatever
13 you said, is this the same product that we use at
14 home as super glue.
15 A. Yes, it’s a cyanoacrylate ester.
16 Q. And when you say “polymer,” what does that
17 mean, polymerization.
18 A. The polymerization process is basically the
19 single molecule of the cyanoacrylate ester, and
20 just -- chemically it multiplies itself and becomes
21 a very long chain, and that’s referred to as a
22 polymer.
23 Q. So what is the process of getting this
24 polymer to condense around the fingerprints. What
25 happens in the lab when they do that. What do they
26 do.
27 A. Oh --
28 Q. How do they get it to -- 3300
1 A. The way it’s normally done, you have a
2 shaver, and some people actually use something like
3 a fish tank. And they get the cyanoacrylate liquid,
4 like your super glue, and put it in a small aluminum
5 dish. And you heat this by putting it on a heating
6 pad, or a heating mantel, or some sort of heating
7 source. And also you have some water on the site.
8 It’s the moisture content that is used to condense
9 around the fingerprint residue.
10 And then you let it sit there for a period
11 of time. It sits probably ten minutes or more. And
12 then by that time, you can begin to see the
13 fingerprints being developed on the material. And
14 then you take it out. And basically that’s about
15 it.
16 It is a very simple process that you see
17 periodically on “CSI” referred to as, you know,
18 super glue fuming.
19 Q. Does super glue fuming enhance the
20 water-based materials, the oil-based materials, or
21 some combination.
22 A. It enhances both.
23 Q. Okay. So it enhances -- whatever material
24 is there, it will condense and form a bigger ridge
25 or a more visible ridge. Is that fair to say.
26 A. That is fair to say. As far as the
27 water-soluble material, it has the amines. As far
28 as the water-insoluble material, it has certain 3301
1 lipoproteins, and proteins contain the amines. And
2 there’s also moisture condensed in there as well.
3 Q. So let’s talk about RUVIS. You mentioned
4 that term, Reflective Ultraviolet Imaging System.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What is RUVIS. How is that technology
7 normally used in forensic science.
8 A. I’ve used that term maybe two or three times
9 in my discussion, and it involves two things. The
10 system itself, the imaging system, and the
11 illuminator. The illuminator is simply an
12 ultraviolet lamp, but works in that short wavelength
13 region.
14 I might add if you’re not familiar with the
15 short wavelength region, stamp collectors normally
16 use that to be able to examine their stamps. U.S.
17 stamps have material in it that only glows under
18 short wave, not long wave. So you would see that
19 type of lamp among stamp collectors.
20 So anyway, it is that type of lamp that you
21 use to illuminate your substance that you’re
22 examining. And then you image it with a system that
23 is capable of seeing that region. Human eyes can
24 only see in the so-called visible region. It
25 doesn’t see ultraviolet, it doesn’t see infrared, so
26 you have to use special imaging systems to see in
27 those regions.
28 In the infrared, you have things called 3302
1 night vision scopes. In the ultraviolet, there are
2 scopes out there that have intensified tubes in
3 there that can see in the ultraviolet, and that’s
4 what we currently have.
5 The optical system for viewing has a filter
6 in front of that system that only allows the short
7 wavelengths to go through. So essentially you’re
8 illuminating with light that is of a certain
9 frequency. To be exact, it’s 254 nanometers. And
10 then you have a filter on the system that is only
11 able to allow that wavelength to go through.
12 So the -- the so-called imager consists of
13 the filter, a lens, which has to be made out of
14 quartz, otherwise ultraviolet light couldn’t go
15 through. And then inside is referred to as an image
16 intensifier. Basically it converts that ultraviolet
17 light that’s hitting the surface into visible light,
18 into a phosphor, and then you are able to see it at
19 the other end. And some people put a camera at the
20 other end to view that, or other people can just
21 look at that phosphor screen and see the image.
22 So basically that’s what the Reflected
23 Ultraviolet Imaging System is.
24 Q. Now, you’ve talked about infrared, and
25 you’ve talked about ultraviolet. Are those the two
26 ends of the light spectrum.
27 A. Well, the two ends of the visible spectra.
28 There’s more to it than a one end and more to it on 3303
1 the other.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. But if you have the visible spectra, the
4 so-called lower end would be the ultraviolet, the
5 higher end would be the infrared.
6 Q. Okay. Now, the infrared is the -- tell me
7 about the technology that is used in a product
8 called the Scenescope.
9 A. The Scenescope is basically what I just
10 described as the RUVIS, the Reflected Ultraviolet
11 Imaging System.
12 It consists of a scope that is able to see
13 in the ultraviolet, a filter, and the illuminating
14 light, and a camera sometimes sits on top. And it’s
15 actually on the stand there, that you see.
16 Q. So this object to my left here is a
17 Scenescope with a camera mounted on it.
18 A. That’s just the one part. That’s just the
19 viewing portion. I don’t see the illuminator set up
20 yet.
21 Q. Would this be the illuminator.
22 A. That would be the illuminator.
23 Q. Okay. So the Scenescope has an ultraviolet
24 light, true.
25 A. Correct.
26 Q. And a special device that makes that light
27 visible; is that true.
28 A. That is correct. 3304
Subject: March 23, 2005 
Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:44 am
