1 Q. You’ve testified to your opinion about the
2 character and honesty of Janet Arvizo.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You’ve also testified to your opinion about
5 the character and honesty of Gavin Arvizo, right.
6 A. Right.
7 Q. Do you know anything about the J.C. Penney
8 lawsuit.
9 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, I’m going to
10 move to strike the question that counsel raised.
11 You’ve testified to your opinion about the character
12 and honesty of Janet Arvizo. She’s never testified
13 about that. I never asked her any questions
14 concerning that.
15 THE COURT: That was his question, though.
16 Your objection is overruled.
17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did you know that Gavin
18 Arvizo and Janet Arvizo sued J.C. Penney stores when
19 Gavin was caught with unpaid merchandise in the
20 parking lot, and that both claim that security
21 guards at J.C. Penney’s pulled Janet’s breasts out
22 of her blouse, squeezed her nipple 10 to 25 times --
23 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. 403, Your
24 Honor.
25 THE COURT: I’m sorry, what’s the objection.
26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. 403, as well
27 as improper.
28 MR. MESEREAU: I think the door is opened, 3047
1 Your Honor.
2 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: As well as improper
3 impeachment without a good-faith basis. I have a
4 good-faith basis.
5 MR. MESEREAU: And I think they’ve opened
6 the door.
7 THE COURT: Just a moment.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: Let’s be sure about one thing.
10 Even though I allowed your question, there’s been no
11 character testimony allowed as to Janet Arvizo.
12 Understood. You successfully objected to that.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 MR. MESEREAU: Now, I’ll limit my
16 question --
17 THE COURT: Just a moment. I’ve got to
18 scroll back. I wanted to see something else. But
19 I’ve got to capture it here. If you’ll bear with me
20 a moment.
21 The second thing is the objection under 403,
22 as to going into the J.C. Penney case, is sustained.
23 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
24 May I inquire, Your Honor, with respect to
25 the character testimony of Gavin, is it still
26 precluded.
27 THE COURT: No. You know, I think maybe it
28 would be better if you approach so we don’t talk in 3048
1 front of the jury for a second, so I can give you
2 some limitations on your questions.
3 (Discussion held off the record at sidebar.)
4 THE COURT: All right. I think we’re ready
5 to proceed again.
6 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Palanker, did you
7 know that in the J.C. Penney lawsuit, Gavin Arvizo
8 claimed that at the age of eight he had taken
9 merchandise out of J.C. Penney that was not paid
10 for, and run into the parking lot so he could trick
11 his father into purchasing it.
12 A. No.
13 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Form of the
14 question; “did you know.”
15 THE COURT: You should say, “Have you
16 heard,” but I’ll allow the question.
17 THE WITNESS: No, I didn’t know that.
18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would it be accurate to
19 say you don’t know anything about that lawsuit.
20 Right.
21 A. I knew something of it, but they had told me
22 they were not allowed to talk about it.
23 Q. Did you ever learn how much money, if any,
24 was recovered by the Arvizo family in that case.
25 A. No, I didn’t.
26 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Relevancy as
27 to credibility; irrelevant.
28 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer’s in. 3049
1 Next question.
2 MR. MESEREAU: May I see those exhibits,
3 Your Honor. Are they -- oh, here they are. Thank
4 you.
5 Q. Miss Palanker, referring you to Exhibit 719,
6 which is the $10,000 check that you wrote to David
7 Arvizo, okay.
8 A. Uh-huh.
9 Q. Now, it says on the check that he’s living
10 at Ramer Street in El Monte, California. Was that
11 your understanding when you wrote that check.
12 A. I would just ask him how he wanted the check
13 made out or who he wanted it -- where he wanted it
14 sent or -- I don’t remember.
15 Q. I notice the date is July 10th, the year
16 2000. And this is the second $10,000 check you had
17 written, right.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. The first one you wrote to Janet Arvizo on
20 June 15th, 2000.
21 A. Uh-huh.
22 Q. Right.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So there’s really about a, what, three-week
25 difference --
26 A. Right.
27 Q. -- between the two.
28 I don’t see any address for Janet on the 3050
1 check to her, but I notice that David’s address is
2 Ramer Street.
3 Did you ever question where he was living at
4 the time.
5 A. Nope.
6 Q. You just put on what he wanted; is that
7 true.
8 A. Yeah, I did.
9 Q. All right. Now, you testified that David
10 asked you to make out the first check to Janet,
11 true.
12 A. Yes, he did.
13 Q. And you testified that you wanted to make
14 the second check out to David for tax reasons, is
15 that correct.
16 A. Right.
17 Q. In other words, he wanted you to write a
18 second check to Janet, but you couldn’t do that
19 without paying a gift tax because it was over the
20 $10,000 limit, right.
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; assumes facts
22 not in evidence.
23 THE WITNESS: He didn’t ask me to.
24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Pardon me.
25 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; assumes facts
26 not in evidence.
27 THE COURT: Overruled.
28 THE WITNESS: He didn’t ask me to. When he 3051
1 started asking me for more money, I told him that it
2 would have to be made out to him, so he never asked
3 me to make out a second check to Janet.
4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Now, you testified
5 in response to the prosecutor’s questions that
6 David, to your knowledge, never paid the repairman
7 who fixed up Gavin’s room in El Monte, right.
8 A. That no one from the Arvizo family had paid
9 him.
10 Q. So it wasn’t just David who didn’t pay them,
11 Janet didn’t pay the person either.
12 A. He wasn’t paid.
13 Q. He just wasn’t paid, period.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. Now, at some point you learned that
16 both of these checks were deposited into Janet’s
17 mother’s bank account, right.
18 A. I only learned that after the private
19 investigator informed me of that.
20 Q. And that was an investigator for the
21 defense, right.
22 A. For -- yes. Yes.
23 Q. And you don’t know whether David even had
24 check-writing ability on Janet’s mother’s bank
25 account, right.
26 A. I didn’t know any of those types of
27 particulars, no.
28 Q. So realistically, you don’t know whether 3052
1 David even had the capacity to write a check on any
2 of the $20,000 that you gave the Arvizos, right.
3 A. I never asked for any accountability. I
4 just gave the money.
5 Q. Okay. Okay. Did you ever ask Janet,
6 “Janet, why didn’t you pay the fellow who repaired
7 the room for Gavin.”
8 A. I discussed it with the contractor, when I
9 found out that he had not been paid. I said, “I’ll
10 pay you.” I said, “Would you like me to check into
11 that.” I just couldn’t believe that he hadn’t been
12 paid, based on the amount of money that I had given
13 them.
14 And I said, “Would you like me to call
15 them.” He said, “No, just -- let’s just let this be
16 my gift to Gavin.”
17 Q. So he decided that he would just donate his
18 work at that point.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. But your understanding was that when he did
21 the work, he was expected to be paid, correct.
22 A. Oh, yes. Yes.
23 Q. Now, in response to the prosecutor’s
24 questions, you indicated that David had called the
25 Lopezes to talk about the $300 in the wallet, right.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. But when you were interviewed by the Santa
28 Barbara Sheriffs, you told them that Gavin had 3053
1 called the Lopezes to talk about that, didn’t you.
2 A. I wasn’t there. So I don’t know which one
3 of them called. So I may have told the story
4 differently.
5 Q. Okay. Would it refresh --
6 A. It wasn’t anything I witnessed.
7 Q. So you don’t really know which one called.
8 A. No, I don’t.
9 Q. Okay. I’m not trying to press you on this.
10 Is there a reason why you told the Santa Barbara
11 Sheriffs that Gavin called the Lopezes to complain.
12 A. I don’t recall a reason, no.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. One of them -- I may have said that because
15 it was Gavin’s wallet.
16 Q. Okay. Okay.
17 THE COURT: Is this a good place for our
18 break.
19 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, sir.
20 (Recess taken.)
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 3054
1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE
2
3
4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE )
5 OF CALIFORNIA, )
6 Plaintiff, )
7 -vs- ) No. 1133603
8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
9 Defendant. )
10
11
12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,
13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby
14 certify:
15 That the foregoing pages 3003 through 3054
16 contain a true and correct transcript of the
17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled
18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at
19 said proceedings on March 22, 2005, and thereafter
20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided
21 transcription under my direction.
22 DATED: Santa Maria, California,
23 March 22, 2005.
24
25
26
27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 3055
1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION
4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE
5
6
7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )
8 CALIFORNIA, )
9 Plaintiff, )
10 -vs- ) No. 1133603
11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
12 Defendant. )
13
14
15
16
17 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
18
19 TUESDAY, MARCH 22, 2005
20
21 8:30 A.M.
22
23 (PAGES 3056 THROUGH 3131)
24
25
26
27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 BY: Official Court Reporter 3056
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2
3 For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
4 District Attorney -and-
5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney
6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street
8 Santa Barbara, California 93101
9
10
11 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A.
MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
12 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
13 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067
14 -and-
15 SANGER & SWYSEN
16 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C
17 Santa Barbara, California 93101
18 -and-
19 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
20 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 3057
1 I N D E X
2
3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as “SN” on index.
4 Mr. Zonen is listed as “Z” on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as “A” on index.
5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as “M” on index. Ms. Yu is listed as “Y” on index.
6 Mr. Sanger is listed as “SA” on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as “O” on index.
7
8
9 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
10
11 PALANKER, Louise 3101-A 3115-M
12 3129-A (Further)
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 3058
1 THE COURT: Go ahead, Counsel.
2 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
3 Q. Miss Palanker, I’d like to ask you a couple
4 of questions about your interview with the Santa
5 Barbara sheriffs on January 7th, 2005. Okay.
6 A. Uh-huh.
7 Q. You’ve told the sheriffs that you met the
8 Arvizo family probably around ‘98 or ‘99, right.
9 A. Right.
10 Q. Do you know which year it was, do you
11 think.
12 A. It was 1999. I’ve since had a chance to
13 look at a calendar.
14 Q. Okay. And obviously you met them at The
15 Laugh Factory --
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. -- right.
18 Okay. Now, you told the sheriffs the
19 following, when you were discussing giving the
20 Arvizos $10,000, okay. You said, “I gave him a
21 check,” “him” being David, “a check for $10,000, and
22 he accepted that. But the thing was, that a few
23 weeks later, he was asking for more money, so that’s
24 when I started going” -- and you said, “That was the
25 thing where I went out of balance with this family.”
26 Sound right.
27 A. I felt the family was out of balance.
28 Q. Yes. 3059
1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. And then you mentioned Janet, and you talked
3 about what was happening, and you said, “I believe
4 the kid -- and the kids collaborated in what she was
5 saying. I just wanted to be out of it.”
6 Clearly when you talked to the sheriffs, you
7 were including Janet in your problems with the
8 Arvizo family, weren’t you.
9 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Argumentative.
10 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
11 THE WITNESS: I don’t recall. They were all
12 a family. There were five of them.
13 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You told the sheriffs,
14 “This family can be as whacky as they want to be,”
15 right.
16 A. I don’t recall saying that or what I would
17 have meant by that, because you’re saying it to me
18 out of context.
19 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
20 showed you the transcript of your interview.
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24 THE WITNESS: There’s several things in here
25 that say “inaudible,” so I’m having a difficult time
26 remembering what the intent of this passage was
27 because I was talking casually, so I don’t recall.
28 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let me just have that. 3060
1 Q. Have you had a chance to review those pages
2 of transcript.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And do they refresh your recollection about
5 your interview with the Santa Barbara sheriffs.
6 A. Not really.
7 Q. Do you recall making statements to the Santa
8 Barbara sheriffs on or around July 7th, 2005.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And were you at a meeting with the sheriffs.
11 A. Yes. They came to where I was working, yes.
12 Q. Okay. And you don’t recall saying, “This
13 family can be as whacky as they want to be”.
14 A. It was probably --
15 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, I’m going to
16 object and move to strike. I believe counsel
17 misspoke when he said “July 7th, 2005.”
18 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Can’t hear you, sir.
19 MR. MESEREAU: Pardon me, January 7th. I
20 did misspeak. My mistake. Let me restate the
21 question.
22 Q. You do recall being interviewed by the
23 sheriffs on January 7th, 2005, right.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And do you recall making general statements
26 to the sheriffs about the Arvizo family.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Do you recall telling them that you “went 3061
1 out of balance with this family”.
2 A. No.
3 Q. You don’t recall making those statements at
4 all.
5 A. That was not the intent of what I had said.
6 Q. Okay. Did you say that.
7 A. I said I felt that something had gone out of
8 balance; something was out of balance within that
9 family.
10 Q. Okay. And do you recall, referring to
11 Janet, saying that you believed the kids were
12 collaborating in what she was saying.
13 A. No, I don’t.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. There’s several things in there that are
16 marked “inaudible,” and so I know I never said
17 anything to that extent.
18 Q. Okay. Do you recall saying, “This family
19 can be as whacky as they want to be”.
20 A. I’m a comedian, and I’m sure I was talking
21 casually about something involving the family being
22 out of balance.
23 Q. Okay. Okay. Do you recall telling the
24 Santa Barbara sheriffs that Janet wanted to move --
25 take her kids and move into your home.
26 A. No, I never told them that.
27 Q. You never told them anything like that.
28 A. No. 3062
1 Q. Okay. Have you ever told that to any
2 sheriff at any time.
3 A. No. She wanted me to pick them up at one
4 point so she could talk with me about what was
5 happening in her situation.
6 Q. Did you know you were being tape-recorded in
7 this discussion.
8 A. No, I don’t think I did.
9 Q. Do you remember telling them that, “I know
10 that Janet’s unbalanced. I think she’s totally
11 bipolar”.
12 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Improper
13 opinion.
14 THE WITNESS: Do I answer.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 (To the witness.) I’m thinking.
17 (Laughter.)
18 THE COURT: You may answer.
19 THE WITNESS: I’m not a psychiatrist, but
20 she -- she’s very excitable.
21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: But do you remember
22 telling the sheriffs the following: “I know that
23 Janet’s unbalanced. I think she’s totally bipolar.
24 Something -- the behavior from the children from the
25 family was so over the top all the time”. Do you
26 remember saying that.
27 A. Yes, I do.
28 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling the Santa 3063
1 Barbara sheriffs when you were talking about letters
2 you received from the Arvizos, “You don’t just get
3 one letter from them. You get five letters from
4 them. You don’t get one phone call. You get five
5 phone calls. A message from Janet on your answering
6 machine can last five minutes.’ She mimics types of
7 messages on the phone.”
8 You mimicked for the sheriffs her messages
9 on the machine. Do you remember that.
10 A. Yes, I do.
11 Q. Is that something you said.
12 A. Yes. I was exaggerating. I didn’t know I
13 was being taped.
14 Q. Do you remember telling the Santa Barbara
15 sheriffs, when you didn’t realize that you were
16 being recorded, “Janet would sell them at the
17 benefits, then sell them at the hospital, and David
18 was never at The Laugh Factory when the children
19 were coming”.
20 A. “Sell them”. I don’t remember saying that,
21 no.
22 Q. Okay. Would it refresh your recollection if
23 I show you a transcript of your recorded statement.
24 A. Okay.
25 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
26 THE COURT: Yes.
27 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.
28 THE WITNESS: It says “inaudible,” and I 3064
1 don’t know what I was referring to.
2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Have you had a
3 chance to review that page.
4 A. Yes, I have.
5 Q. Do you recall telling the sheriffs --
6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Counsel, may I see that.
7 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
8 Let me withdraw that question. Let me start
9 again.
10 Q. You’ve had some meetings with the
11 prosecutors before you came in to testify, true.
12 A. Over the phone.
13 Q. And you talked to some Santa Barbara
14 sheriffs over the phone as well, correct.
15 A. I talked to the sheriffs in person.
16 Q. Did -- at any time, did any of them tell you
17 that your conversation with the sheriffs had been
18 recorded.
19 A. I don’t believe so.
20 Q. Okay. Is today the first time you ever
21 realized that they had recorded you without your
22 knowledge.
23 A. No, I found out a couple days ago.
24 Q. Who told you.
25 A. Ron.
26 Q. Prosecutor Zonen.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Okay. Okay. Do you recall telling the 3065
1 officer, “Janet would sell them at the benefits,
2 then sell them at the hospital, and David was never
3 at The Laugh Factory when the children were coming”.
4 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, I’m going to
5 object and ask counsel to notify the witness when
6 there are inaudible portions of the statement that
7 he is reading.
8 THE COURT: I don’t think he’s required to do
9 that. But the question is -- all right. You may
10 answer the question, but I know you won’t remember
11 it, so I’ll have it reread.
12 THE WITNESS: I believe that the first
13 portion of that statement is mistyped.
14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay.
15 A. The second portion of that statement is
16 correct.
17 Q. Okay. So you don’t think you told the
18 sheriffs, “Janet would sell them at the benefits,
19 then sell them at the hospital”.
20 A. No, I don’t.
21 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling them that
22 Janet was never at the hospital.
23 A. Yes, I do. I think it may have been
24 “seldom,” now that I’m thinking of how they would
25 have mistyped it.
26 Q. Do you remember being asked if Janet had
27 ever approached you for money in that phone
28 conversation -- excuse me, in that interview. 3066
1 A. Say it again. I was just thinking about my
2 last thought. I’m sorry.
3 Q. Okay. In that interview on January 7th,
4 2005, with the Santa Barbara sheriffs, do you
5 remember being asked if Janet had ever personally
6 approached you or asked you for money.
7 A. I told them she hadn’t.
8 Q. No, you have to answer my question, please.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. Do you remember being asked that question.
11 A. Yes, I do.
12 Q. Do you remember responding, “It was always
13 David or it was the children being coached to ask me
14 for a laptop”.
15 A. I felt that Gavin had been coached to ask me
16 for a laptop.
17 Q. Did Gavin ask you for the laptop.
18 A. He would go like this (indicating), because
19 I had promised him one, so he was reminding me.
20 Q. So you were asked by the officer, “What do
21 you mean by coached.” Do you remember that.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And you said, “being coached to tell me that
24 they hadn’t gotten any Christmas presents
25 (inaudible)”.
26 A. Star had told me that, yes.
27 Q. Did you believe Star when he told you they
28 hadn’t gotten any Christmas presents. 3067
1 A. I didn’t, really. I wasn’t sure. A lot of
2 people were giving them gifts at that time.
3 Q. Did you think Star was being coached.
4 A. I did.
5 Q. Okay. And how do you know a lot of people
6 were giving them gifts around the same time that
7 Star said, “We don’t have any Christmas presents”.
8 A. I don’t know. I just know that people
9 visited them, comedians visited them, and it was
10 Christmastime, so I felt that he -- they probably
11 would have gotten something.
12 Q. Okay. And in discussing Gavin asking for a
13 laptop, you told the sheriffs, “But he’s right next
14 to David asking for things. The father should say,
15 ‘Honey, don’t ask for anything. She’s being very
16 generous.’” Do you remember saying that.
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. What did you mean by that.
19 A. I had just given David a second check for
20 $10,000 within a three-week period of time, and I
21 felt that David should have told Gavin, “We’ll get
22 you the laptop, Honey. It’s taken care of.”
23 Q. And this is when you thought Gavin was being
24 coached to ask you for the laptop.
25 A. Because David was right there and he didn’t
26 stop him.
27 Q. But you don’t know if his mother coached him
28 at all, do you. 3068
1 A. His mother wasn’t there.
2 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Speculation.
3 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. She
4 did answer, though.
5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Do you recall
6 saying, “And -- and David was never at The Laugh
7 Factory when the children were coming”. Do you
8 recall saying that.
9 A. During comedy camp. I recall saying that.
10 Q. That was referring to comedy camp.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Janet was always at the comedy camp, right.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. At The Laugh Factory.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. And when did you learn there was a
17 problem with George Lopez.
18 A. David told me about it at The Laugh Factory.
19 Q. And do you remember -- do you remember
20 telling the Santa Barbara sheriffs with respect to
21 George Lopez the following: “I guess she had left a
22 message on her machine screaming something that they
23 were taking advantage of her child and that she
24 didn’t want to have anything more to do with them
25 and David.”
26 A. Yes, I --
27 Q. Do you remember.
28 A. I remember saying that, yes. 3069
1 Q. And you were referring to Janet, correct.
2 A. I was referring to Ann Lopez.
3 Q. Okay. Weren’t referring to Janet at all.
4 A. No.
5 Q. Okay. Do you remember saying to the
6 sheriffs, “Janet always put him up to it, and he had
7 to do what she told him to do”.
8 A. No.
9 Q. Remember saying those words.
10 A. No, I don’t.
11 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show
12 you the transcript.
13 A. Okay.
14 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: Yes.
16 THE WITNESS: All right.
17 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
18 look at that portion of transcript.
19 A. Yes, I have.
20 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what
21 you said.
22 A. No. I think it’s a very inaccurate
23 depiction of what would have been said.
24 Q. So you don’t think you said, “Janet always
25 put him to it, and he had to do what she told him to
26 do”.
27 A. No, I don’t.
28 Q. Okay. Now, to your knowledge, did Jamie 3070
1 Masada have any involvement in the dispute with
2 George Lopez.
3 A. To the extent where David told both Jamie
4 and I had what had transpired.
5 Q. And did Jamie try to solve that problem, if
6 you know.
7 A. Yes, he did.
8 Q. You knew the Arvizos had been at George
9 Lopez’s house; is that correct.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How did you learn about that.
12 A. When they told me about the incident with
13 the wallet. And he may have known that they had
14 them over from time to time.
15 Q. And at some point, you told the sheriffs you
16 thought David had made Gavin call and say the money
17 was in the wallet, right.
18 A. Yeah, I was trying to remember, but I don’t
19 remember.
20 Q. Do you remember saying that.
21 A. I probably said that, yes.
22 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
23 show you the transcript.
24 A. I think I know -- I think I know what I
25 would have said. I would have said that I thought
26 David had Gavin call, but I’m not sure who called.
27 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling the sheriffs,
28 “These people are teaching their kids to lie”. 3071
1 A. No, I don’t.
2 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show
3 you a portion of the transcript of your recorded
4 statement.
5 A. Okay.
6 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 THE WITNESS: Okay.
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
10 look at that portion of the transcript.
11 A. Yes, I have.
12 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what
13 you told the sheriffs.
14 A. Yes, it does.
15 Q. And what did you tell them.
16 A. That that would have been George and Ann’s
17 suspicion.
18 Q. So George and Ann Lopez suspected that the
19 Arvizos were teaching their kids to lie.
20 A. That would have been my understanding of
21 what was going on.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. Because they found a wallet and there was
24 only three dollars in it.
25 Q. Right. Okay. Now, you indicated that David
26 told you that Janet had spent the money that you had
27 generously given them.
28 A. No. 3072
1 Q. What did you say about that.
2 A. Oh, that David told me that.
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. Yes, he did.
5 Q. And did he tell you what he had thought she
6 had spent it on.
7 A. Votive candles.
8 Q. Anything else.
9 A. I can’t recall anything else he said.
10 Q. Well, he didn’t really just tell you she’d
11 spent $20,000 on votive candles, did he.
12 A. He said, “She’s going crazy and she can’t
13 cope with this situation, and she’s buying a lot of
14 statues and votive candles.” I don’t remember --
15 he -- it was one big blurry sentence that didn’t
16 make a lot of sense to me, considering the amount of
17 money.
18 Q. And you did tell the sheriffs, in referring
19 to the -- what the Arvizos had done with your money,
20 “They bought him a giant, like, flat-screen picture
21 and picture T.V. and DVD player. You know, a kid at
22 that point, five years ago, doesn’t really need more
23 than a VHS.” Do you remember that.
24 A. Yes, I did say that.
25 Q. And were you upset that your money had been
26 spent that way.
27 A. I wouldn’t use the word “upset.” I was
28 concerned that they weren’t going to be very good at 3073
1 budgeting their money.
2 Q. So you weren’t complaining that they should
3 have spent it on a VHS.
4 A. No, it was just a thought in my head.
5 Q. Well, your thought in your head was, “Why
6 spend the money on a flat-screen picture T.V. and a
7 DVD player,” right.
8 A. That was my thought. I didn’t articulate
9 that to them.
10 Q. You didn’t articulate that to the Arvizos.
11 A. No, I didn’t.
12 Q. You didn’t think it was your place to tell
13 them how to spend it, right.
14 A. I really didn’t, no.
15 Q. You also told the sheriffs you think Jamie
16 Masada is a pathological liar, right.
17 A. It was hyperbole. I had a falling-out with
18 him, and his English is difficult to understand and
19 sometimes he doesn’t recall events correctly.
20 Q. But you told them, “I think Jamie is a
21 pathological liar,” correct.
22 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I’m going to object and
23 move to strike. Mr. Masada’s character is not in
24 evidence -- is not in issue here.
25 MR. MESEREAU: I think the prosecutor did
26 bring out testimony about Mr. Masada throughout his
27 examination.
28 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. 3074
1 THE WITNESS: I -- I said something along
2 those lines, because he sometimes doesn’t recall
3 things. But I’m a comedian, so --
4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Well, but just not
5 recalling things doesn’t make you a pathological
6 liar, right.
7 A. I’m not in a place to really make that
8 diagnosis, so --
9 Q. Well, you told them, “I think Jamie’s a
10 pathological liar,” right.
11 A. I may have said those words.
12 Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look
13 at the transcript.
14 A. No, I may have said those words.
15 Q. I’m trying to find out if you did, okay.
16 A. I probably did. But I was exaggerating.
17 Q. Okay. You talked about Jamie Masada and
18 David, and you said that Jamie told you David wanted
19 to set up a committee to get more money, right.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you said, with respect to Jamie and
22 David, “One of them is telling the truth. The truth
23 is somewhere in the middle,” right.
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. And the officer said, “Who do you believe to
26 be the truth.” And your response was, “I think
27 Jamie is a pathological liar,” right.
28 A. Well, it’s difficult to say in that 3075
1 situation. I still don’t know the truth, so it’s
2 difficult to say.
3 Q. Well, let me ask you this, if you recall the
4 conversation. I know you didn’t know they were
5 recording you.
6 You could have responded, “I think David is
7 a pathological liar,” but you didn’t. You said,
8 “I think Jamie’s a pathological liar,” right.
9 A. Right.
10 Q. And then the officer said, “Jamie is.” And
11 you said, “Yes.”
12 Now, that’s not just hyperbole, is it.
13 A. Sometimes he confuses incidents.
14 Q. Do you remember after you said, “I think
15 Jamie is a pathological liar,” the officer said,
16 “Jamie is.” And you said, “Yes”. Do you remember
17 that.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. So you did say that, right.
20 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; cumulative.
21 THE COURT: Asked and answered; sustained.
22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: What do you recall about
23 the idea that a committee would be formed to raise
24 more money.
25 A. Well, I had reason to believe that a few
26 years prior to David asking me for more money, there
27 had been some kind of committee at The Laugh Factory
28 set up to help comedians that needed help. So the 3076
1 word “committee” was familiar to me in that there
2 had been a committee at The Laugh Factory that was
3 designed to give money to comedians in need. But I
4 think the committee didn’t sustain itself and had
5 been long since dissolved.
6 So, that’s what made me think that Jamie
7 might have said that to David; that there was a
8 committee that could decide to give the family more
9 money. But there wasn’t a committee, to my
10 knowledge. And Jamie insists that David made it up
11 to try to get more money from me, so I really don’t
12 know where the truth is.
13 Q. Okay. In this interview, do you remember
14 telling the Santa Barbara sheriff that, “Janet needs
15 to see a psychologist”.
16 A. No.
17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show
18 you the transcript.
19 A. Okay.
20 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
24 look at that transcript.
25 A. Yes, I have.
26 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what
27 you told the Santa Barbara sheriff.
28 A. Yes, it does. 3077
1 Q. Did you tell them that, “Janet needs to see
2 a psychologist”.
3 A. I told them that I had told David during the
4 periods of time when Janet was not appearing at the
5 hospital, and I found that to be very peculiar, that
6 if she couldn’t be -- if she couldn’t be there for
7 her son, that she might need to see a psychologist,
8 because she was -- it didn’t seem like natural
9 mother behavior.
10 Q. Okay. Now, with respect to Janet, you told
11 the Santa Barbara sheriff that anytime the Arvizos
12 got someone’s phone number, they would use it,
13 right.
14 A. They liked making phone calls.
15 Q. And who do you know that they used to call
16 besides yourself.
17 A. They called Jamie. Chris Tucker. George
18 Lopez. And they called Jay Leno.
19 Q. And you -- excuse me. Something in my
20 throat.
21 You told the sheriffs, “I have people call
22 me at home and say, ‘What do you want me to do with
23 these people.’ They won’t stop calling,” correct.
24 A. That was concerning the Jay Leno incident.
25 Q. Did Jay Leno tell you they won’t stop
26 calling him.
27 A. He told me they had left about three
28 messages on his voice mail. 3078
1 Q. Okay. And you told the sheriffs you took
2 David aside and said, “Stop calling all these
3 people,” right.
4 A. I said specifically, “I’ve been asked by Jay
5 for you to stop calling Jay.”
6 Q. Okay. Now, are you -- have you ever heard
7 any recorded phone conversation between the Santa
8 Barbara sheriffs and Jay Leno in this case.
9 A. No, I haven’t.
10 Q. Okay. Have you discussed what’s on that
11 recorded conversation with any prosecutor.
12 A. No, I haven’t.
13 Q. Did you tell the prosecutors in your meeting
14 that Jay Leno had asked you to tell these people to
15 stop trying to contact him.
16 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; hearsay.
17 THE COURT: Overruled.
18 You may answer.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, I told them that.
20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Who did you tell that to.
21 A. The detectives that interviewed me.
22 Q. Okay. Do you know approximately when you
23 told them that.
24 A. It would have been Craig, when -- a few
25 months ago.
26 Q. Would that be Craig Bonner.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Okay. And where did that meeting take 3079
1 place.
2 A. At a recording studio.
3 Q. Is that in Los Angeles.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. And who was at that meeting.
6 A. Me and Craig and someone he -- another
7 detective that he brought with him.
8 Q. Okay. Now, when you told the sheriffs,
9 “People call me at home and say, ‘What do you want
10 me to do with these people. They won’t stop
11 calling,’” that sounds like it’s more than just Jay
12 Leno, doesn’t it.
13 A. But I wouldn’t have said that, because I was
14 specifically talking about Jay.
15 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
16 show you what is in the transcript.
17 A. Okay.
18 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Yes.
20 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
23 look at that passage.
24 A. Yes, I have.
25 Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what
26 you told the Santa Barbara sheriffs.
27 A. Yes, it does.
28 Q. And you said “people” call you. You didn’t 3080
1 just limit it to Jay Leno, right.
2 A. No. I said, “Jay called me at home.” So
3 that’s a mistype.
4 Q. That’s a mistype.
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. Okay. Did you remember telling the Santa
7 Barbara sheriffs, “I don’t know who’s putting the
8 kids up to all the phone calls”.
9 A. Yes, I do.
10 Q. And did you say that because you knew that
11 the Arvizo children were calling celebrities by
12 phone.
13 A. I did know they were calling. I didn’t know
14 it was Gavin’s initiative - Gavin likes to pick up
15 the phone and call people - or if they were being
16 asked by their parents to do it.
17 Q. Okay. So you told the sheriffs, “They would
18 go over to his house anytime they encountered a
19 celebrity if they felt to be important. They would
20 go over the top with cards and phone calls. And at
21 first I thought, after I found out what -- maybe
22 they saw celebrities as a lifeline to get out of her
23 situation -- to get her out of her situation that
24 she had gotten into at 16.”
25 Do you remember saying that.
26 A. Yes, I do.
27 Q. You’re referring to Janet Arvizo, correct.
28 A. Yes. 3081
1 Q. You were referring to the fact that Janet
2 Arvizo became -- got married at the age of 16,
3 right.
4 A. Yes, I was.
5 Q. And what you were telling the sheriffs was
6 you thought Janet and the family were trying to
7 latch on to a celebrity to get out of their
8 situation, true.
9 A. Latch on to anyone who could help them.
10 Q. Okay. You told the sheriffs, after Gavin
11 got ill, you rarely saw Janet, right.
12 A. Right.
13 Q. But you stayed in touch with her by phone,
14 didn’t you.
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. Now, the prosecutor asked you some questions
17 about Janet talking to you on the phone and you
18 detected she was scared, right.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. She wanted you to meet her in Van Nuys,
21 correct.
22 A. In Sherman Oaks.
23 Q. Okay. Just -- you told the sheriffs she
24 wanted to meet you in Van Nuys, Van -- Ventura, at
25 Von’s, correct.
26 A. Yeah. That would be Sherman Oaks.
27 Q. Okay. Okay. And you told the sheriff that
28 she wanted you to come and get them, right. 3082
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you were on your way out the door,
3 right.
4 A. To do something else, yes.
5 Q. And you said, “I didn’t really want
6 something about the Arvizos.” You were afraid of
7 David,” And “I just didn’t want them at my house.”
8 Do you remember that.
9 A. Right.
10 Q. She wanted you to take them to your house.
11 A. Yes, she did. Yeah.
12 Q. Do you recall either David or Janet wanting
13 you to take Davellin and Gavin to a movie set.
14 A. No, I don’t.
15 Q. Well, at some point you told the sheriffs
16 you thought David had made inappropriate remarks to
17 you, right.
18 A. Oh, are you talking about when we went to
19 see Adam Sandler.
20 Q. I’ll ask you about that for sure, but let me
21 just stick to what I asked you first.
22 You did tell the sheriffs that, in your
23 opinion, David had made some inappropriate remarks
24 to you, right.
25 A. Yes. Yes.
26 Q. And you told the sheriffs that you were
27 asked to take Davellin and Gavin to a movie set,
28 right. 3083
1 A. I was asked to accompany Gavin and David to
2 a movie set because Jamie had another appointment
3 after the meeting he had set up between Gavin and
4 Adam Sandler. So I was asked to drive David there
5 and drive David and Gavin back to The Laugh Factory.
6 Q. And you were uncomfortable with Janet making
7 comments to the effect, “You’re David’s Sweetheart,”
8 right.
9 A. She said something to that effect to me at
10 one point.
11 Q. And you didn’t like that comment.
12 A. No. They were married.
13 Q. Okay. And you told the sheriffs that David
14 made inappropriate comments to you about Gavin
15 starting to get erections, right.
16 A. Yes, he did.
17 Q. And that made you uncomfortable, didn’t it.
18 A. I didn’t -- I didn’t think that line of --
19 that area needed to be discussed. It would have
20 been embarrassing to Gavin if he had known.
21 Q. Okay. And you first met David at the
22 hospital, right.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Now, when did you say David started going to
25 The Laugh Factory on a regular basis.
26 A. Around about that time. You know, we told
27 him, “If you need a break and you want to come hang
28 out,” Jamie told him. Jamie invited him. 3084
1 Q. Okay. Did you think that he and Jamie were
2 close friends.
3 A. Not any closer than David and I. I
4 didn’t --
5 Q. You did tell the sheriffs you thought you
6 and Jamie were the ones who were most involved with
7 this family.
8 A. Yes, we were.
9 Q. Okay. And at some point you learned that
10 Michael Jackson seemed to be very involved with this
11 family, right.
12 A. They were going up to the ranch, yes.
13 Q. And at some point, did it appear to you that
14 you saw them less often because they were spending
15 time with Michael Jackson.
16 A. Yes, because Gavin was getting better and
17 they seemed to be spending more time with Michael.
18 Q. Okay. When you and Fritz Coleman visited
19 the address on Soto Street --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- that was around Christmastime; is that
22 right.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And what did you bring them.
25 A. A microwave, a Play Station, and some games.
26 Q. Now, how close in time was that visit to
27 your writing your first $10,000 check; do you know.
28 A. I wrote the check in June when he got ill, 3085
1 so --
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. -- however many months that is. Seven.
4 Q. So you began giving them gifts in December,
5 right.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And the first $10,000 is written in June.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And the next one’s written in July.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. In this interview with the police,
12 which you didn’t know was being recorded, do you
13 remember telling them, “I didn’t know what was going
14 on with the family. They were always kind of
15 strange”.
16 A. I might have said words to that effect.
17 Q. Do you know if you did.
18 A. Yes, but by “strange,” I didn’t mean them as
19 individuals. I meant the family as an entity.
20 Q. You didn’t mean them as individuals. You
21 just meant when they all get together, they’re
22 strange. Is that the idea.
23 A. I couldn’t really put my finger on what was
24 out of balance within this family structure.
25 Certainly not the children. Never the children.
26 Q. Okay. But clearly you were -- you were
27 suspicious these children are being coached to lie,
28 correct. 3086
1 A. I was.
2 Q. Okay. When did you begin to be suspicious
3 that this family was being -- excuse me, that these
4 children were being coached to lie.
5 A. Not to -- oh, did you say “to lie”. I
6 didn’t hear the word “to lie.” I thought you said,
7 “Coached along.”
8 Q. Coached to lie.
9 A. “To lie.” I wouldn’t make that statement.
10 Q. You certainly told the sheriffs words to
11 that effect.
12 A. Well, that they would stretch the truth as
13 it -- you know, when it came to presents or what
14 they had received; that they would say, “We got
15 love.” “What did you get for Christmas.” “We got
16 love.” That sounds coached to me.
17 Q. But you thought the children were also being
18 coached by the parents to, in effect, plead poverty.
19 A. No, just that they hadn’t received a
20 Christmas gift.
21 Q. Hadn’t received Christmas presents when you
22 knew they had.
23 A. Yeah. Yes.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. Gavin told me, when I got to the hospital,
26 that Michael had given him a Play Station 2. A Play
27 Station 2.
28 Q. What else did you learn Michael Jackson had 3087
1 given Gavin at the hospital.
2 A. That was -- that was the day that Star, on
3 the phone, had said they “just got love.” And when
4 I got to the hospital, Gavin told me the truth.
5 Q. And when was this.
6 A. Christmas of 2000.
7 Q. Okay. Now, you knew that Janet Arvizo
8 wanted her kids to be in show business, right.
9 A. I believe she did, yes.
10 Q. And how did you learn that.
11 A. She had told me that she had taken them to
12 tap as young children, to tap dancing, and had
13 become involved in a dance academy, and that she
14 felt that all of the children wanted -- wanted to
15 perform; that she wanted that for them.
16 Q. When you first visited the Soto Street
17 address during Christmastime --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- did you know where Janet’s parents lived.
20 A. No. I wouldn’t have known at that point,
21 no.
22 Q. Had she told you there was an address in El
23 Monte that “we use also”.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Was it your belief that the family lived
26 exclusively at the Soto Street address.
27 A. Yes. It was at that time, yes.
28 Q. And that’s what they represented to you, 3088
1 right.
2 A. Yes, they did.
3 Q. Okay. I don't know if I got the answer. If
4 I didn't hear it, I apologize, but I asked you what
5 you learned Michael Jackson had given the Arvizos at
6 the hospital.
7 A. Oh, he had sent a large basket of toys, and
8 that he -- in the year when nobody could find a
9 Play Station 2, he had found a Play Station 2 for
10 the kids.
11 Q. You've indicated you and Fritz Coleman were
12 giving gifts to this family at least half a year
13 before you heard Gavin had cancer, correct.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, somebody must have told you the family
16 didn't have any money, right.
17 A. We -- I came to believe that over the course
18 of the previous summer where I had come to know
19 them.
20 Q. And how did you come to believe that this
21 family was impoverished.
22 A. The children would display it in their
23 material on stage, their comedy material. And they
24 would take the bus, sometimes not have enough money
25 to take the bus back home.
26 Q. Now, you say the children would display this
27 in their comedy material. Do you mean they would do
28 comedy routines about how poor they were. 3089
1 A. I don't remember any specific jokes, but
2 it -- a lot of children in that class did those
3 types of jokes.
4 So they may -- they very well may have. And
5 I may have just assumed that, they were from East
6 L.A., so they were less privileged than a lot of
7 children. I may have done a lot of assuming in
8 those regards.
9 Q. Okay. Now, how many children were in the
10 class at that point.
11 A. At the beginning of the summer, it would
12 have been 25 to 30. And the ones who actually
13 graduate would have been about 12.
14 Q. How many of those children did you visit
15 that Christmastime with Fritz Coleman.
16 A. No others. They were the ones that we
17 chose.
18 Q. Is there a reason why you chose the Arvizos
19 to visit and not any of the other families.
20 A. Fritz told me that he wanted to bring his
21 children to -- to bring gifts to other children that
22 didn't have the privileges that they enjoyed, and I
23 immediately thought of the Arvizos. And probably
24 one of the reasons would have been that there were
25 three kids.
26 Q. Okay.
27 A. A lot of kids that come to comedy camp, it's
28 just an individual kid. So the Arvizos stuck in my 3090
1 memory because they were a family.
2 Q. Do you remember ever receiving a call from
3 Janet informing you that somebody had repossessed
4 her car.
5 A. No. She told me she didn't have a car,
6 because I would ask if she could meet me, you know,
7 if she and the kids could meet me, and she would say
8 she didn't have a car.
9 Q. Do you recall her ever telling you that
10 somebody had repossessed a car that Michael Jackson
11 had given her.
12 A. No. I knew that Michael had given them a
13 car, and then I knew that then they didn't have a
14 car, but it was very unspecific as to why.
15 Q. And didn't Janet tell you at some point that
16 David had damaged the car that Michael Jackson had
17 given the family.
18 A. She led me to believe that he had, but
19 she -- she was talking very vaguely, that David had
20 crashed a car. And I don't know if she meant the
21 car that Michael had given them, but that he had
22 caused a scene and went on a rampage and crashed a
23 car.
24 Q. But she didn't give you any details about
25 it, right.
26 A. Not in terms of it having been Michael's
27 car, no.
28 Q. I think it goes without saying that, for the 3091
1 most part, you believe Janet rather than David when
2 it came to their marriage difficulties, right.
3 A. I have come to that conclusion, yes.
4 Q. Yeah. You believe Janet more than David,
5 right.
6 A. Yes, I do.
7 Q. Okay. You weren't a witness to anything
8 going on in the home, were you.
9 A. No, I wasn't.
10 Q. Okay. And when did you last talk to David.
11 A. After -- if you have it on record when he
12 lost custody of the children, right around that time
13 period.
14 Q. Okay. And did you used to discuss their
15 marital problems with Janet.
16 A. He would make comments, but this was -- he
17 only called me after he lost the custody battle,
18 because he wanted to tell me that everything she
19 said was not true and everything he said was true,
20 and I didn't want to be involved in that type of
21 conversation.
22 Q. Do you remember telling our investigator
23 that, with regard to Janet's claims of David's
24 abuse, a lot of things said by Janet didn't seem to
25 match up.
26 A. I don't think I meant it in terms of the
27 abuse.
28 Q. Okay. But you certainly told our 3092
1 investigator a lot of things Janet told you just
2 didn't seem to match up, correct.
3 A. There are some inconsistencies in things
4 that she has said.
5 Q. Okay. And you visited Gavin at the hospital
6 approximately 50 times, right.
7 A. That might be kind of high. It might be
8 somewhere between 20 and 50, depending on whatever
9 an average of two times a week would be over the
10 course of a year.
11 Q. And you maybe saw Janet there twice; is that
12 correct.
13 A. Two or three times, yeah.
14 Q. Okay. Now, it was your -- you were told
15 that Janet was working, right.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. But you never confirmed that, right.
18 A. No.
19 Q. Okay. Did you used to visit Gavin at
20 different times of day.
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Like what times would you visit Gavin
23 typically.
24 A. Sometimes at 2:00. Sometimes after dinner.
25 Sometimes at 4:00. Whenever I could make it over
26 there.
27 Q. And you'd see David there quite often,
28 correct. 3093
1 A. Yes, I would.
2 Q. And did you believe that your very generous
3 donations allowed David to go to the hospital.
4 A. I wasn't sure, because he asked for the
5 second check so quickly. I wasn't really sure where
6 he had money from.
7 Q. Do you remember telling our investigator you
8 thought Janet had a hostage syndrome.
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. And you thought that began when she was
11 married at the age of 16.
12 A. To an abusive man, yes.
13 Q. Right. Did you ever have a discussion with
14 David about this alleged abuse.
15 A. No, I never knew anything about the abuse
16 until after Janet finally told me, when she was
17 going to court about it.
18 Q. Now, are you aware that at some point during
19 the divorce, Janet, for the first time, claimed that
20 David had molested Davellin.
21 A. No.
22 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. 403; 352.
23 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. The
24 answer was, "No." Next question.
25 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, did you believe any
26 of the money you donated was to go to medical
27 expenses.
28 A. No, I did not. 3094
1 Q. Okay. You thought it was for general living
2 expenses.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Because they were impoverished, right.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Okay. And did you know the contractor that
7 went to their home to do the work on the room.
8 A. Yes. He was my contractor.
9 Q. Did you actually refer him to them.
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. Okay. Okay. Would it be accurate to
12 describe what you saw Michael Jackson had provided
13 Gavin at the hospital was a large display of gifts.
14 Does that sound accurate.
15 A. It was in keeping with what I had done. I
16 wouldn't consider it overly large.
17 Q. Did you see a lot of gifts from other
18 celebrities at the hospital for Gavin.
19 A. It's possible that I did, but they were
20 celebrities that I knew. And Michael is a huge
21 star, so that would have stood out in my memory.
22 Q. Okay. And you remember very clearly seeing
23 what he had sent, right.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you discuss with Gavin that Michael
26 Jackson had sent him a large gift display.
27 A. I saw the big gift basket, and I said, "Wow,
28 who sent you that." And he said, "Michael." 3095
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. And I was impressed.
3 Q. Did you discuss with Fritz Coleman the fact
4 that other celebrities were providing benefits to
5 the Arvizos at this particular point in time.
6 A. No. We didn't know of any specific
7 benefits.
8 Q. Okay. Did you talk to George Lopez, for
9 example, about what he was doing, if anything.
10 A. No, I didn't.
11 Q. Did you ever discuss with Michael Jackson
12 what he was doing for them.
13 A. No, I didn't.
14 Q. Ever talk to Chris Tucker about what he was
15 doing for the family.
16 A. No, I didn't.
17 Q. You mentioned Adam Sandler. Was it your
18 understanding that Adam Sandler provided any
19 benefits to the family.
20 A. I have no knowledge of that.
21 Q. Did Gavin ask you to introduce him to other
22 celebrities, like Jim Carey.
23 A. Gavin never asked me those questions. He
24 would ask Jamie those questions.
25 Q. How do you know that.
26 A. That's what Jamie told me, that he would ask
27 Gavin, "Who do you want to meet." And Gavin would
28 tell Jamie. 3096
1 Q. Okay. Was it your understanding that Jamie
2 would try to arrange those meetings.
3 A. Yeah, he did. I saw -- I know he did.
4 Q. Who did you see Jamie arrange meetings with
5 for Gavin.
6 A. With Adam Sandler. And then he called
7 Quincy concerning Michael.
8 Q. Called Quincy Jones.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Do you know if Quincy Jones ever got
11 involved with the Arvizo family.
12 A. No, I think it was Quincy's office that
13 called Neverland.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Or gave Jamie the number to call Neverland.
16 I'm not sure exactly how it transpired.
17 Q. All right. Now, you indicated you thought
18 David had obtained moneys that were raised at a
19 fund-raiser, right.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. How did you know he got that money.
22 A. I saw it handed to him.
23 Q. Okay. Did Jamie hand it to him.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you ever find out what happened with
26 that money.
27 A. After he threw it at Jamie.
28 Q. Yes. 3097
1 A. He picked it back up and put it in his
2 pocket.
3 Q. And did he walk off with it.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You don't know what he ever spent that on,
6 right.
7 A. No, I don't.
8 Q. You don't know if he gave it to Janet or
9 kept it himself, right.
10 A. No, I don't.
11 Q. That was the first fund-raiser.
12 A. That was the second one.
13 Q. Who took the money at the first fund-raiser,
14 to your knowledge.
15 A. David, but I didn't see it.
16 Q. Did somebody tell you he took the money.
17 A. It was just assumed that the benefit was for
18 him.
19 Q. Okay. And you don't know what that money
20 was spent on either, right.
21 A. No, I don't.
22 Q. You don’t know if he gave it to Janet or
23 spent it himself, right.
24 A. No, I don’t.
25 Q. Now, after you had your phone call with
26 Janet where you thought she was scared, you said you
27 called your lawyer, correct.
28 A. Correct. 3098
1 Q. You didn’t call the police, did you.
2 A. No, I didn’t.
3 Q. You never called the police about anything
4 Janet told you, correct.
5 A. Right. Correct.
6 Q. Have you talked to anyone about -- excuse
7 me.
8 Before you took the witness stand yesterday,
9 did you discuss with anyone what you were going to
10 say in court.
11 A. I just had pre-interviews with Gordon.
12 Q. How many pre-interviews did you have with
13 Gordon.
14 A. One.
15 Q. And when was that.
16 A. Friday -- Saturday, maybe. Saturday.
17 Q. And did Gordon tell you what he was going to
18 ask you.
19 A. He just went over the events with me.
20 Q. Okay. Did he discuss what you were going to
21 say.
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did you go over any of your sheriffs’
24 interviews with him.
25 A. No, I didn’t.
26 Q. All right. Are you aware of the Arvizos
27 ever meeting Kobe Bryant.
28 A. I’ve only read it in the media recently. 3099
1 Gavin may have told me at that time, but I just
2 don’t recall it.
3 Q. And do you know -- are you aware of the
4 Arvizos ever meeting Mike Tyson.
5 A. No, I wasn’t familiar with that at all.
6 Q. Okay. Do you know anything about Gavin’s
7 behavior at his school before the year 2003.
8 A. Yes. One of the teachers came to the
9 hospital to visit him, and she joked about it.
10 Q. Do you know, for example, whether or not
11 Gavin was repeated disciplined by virtually every
12 teacher at school.
13 A. I think he was chatty. You know, we joked
14 about that he was -- he talked a lot. And --
15 Q. Did you ever look at his school records.
16 A. No, I didn’t.
17 Q. Do you know anything about him fighting in
18 school.
19 A. No, I don’t.
20 Q. Do you know anything about him getting up in
21 the middle of class and starting to sing.
22 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; relevancy.
23 MR. MESEREAU: I think it’s been opened,
24 Your Honor.
25 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Has no bearing on
26 credibility.
27 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
28 THE WITNESS: I don’t know anything about 3100
1 that, no.
2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you know how many
3 teachers disciplined Gavin at his school, if any.
4 A. No, I don’t, other than it had been
5 discussed in a joking manner by a teacher that came
6 to visit him at the hospital.
7 Q. Do you know whether Gavin was often sent to
8 detention at his school.
9 A. No, I don’t.
10 Q. Do you know whether he called teachers
11 names.
12 A. No, I don’t.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. No further questions,
14 Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: Redirect.
16 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Thank you, Your Honor.
17
18 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS:
20 Q. Miss Palanker, as far as the contractor,
21 your contractor that worked with the Arvizos --
22 A. Right.
23 Q. -- I just want to make sure I understand
24 what his arrangement was with the Arvizo family. Do
25 you know if he originally intended to be paid for
26 his work.
27 A. He intended to be paid for the cost of the
28 materials. 3101
1 Q. Okay. So he originally intended to work for
2 free, and just be paid for the cost of the
3 materials.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You’ve made several statements about Janet’s
6 emotional state, her mental state. There’s some
7 words like “bipolar,” “whacky,” “over the top.”
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Can you explain that.
10 A. She’s very emotional.
11 Q. What do you mean by that.
12 A. She’s very emotional, very excitable, very
13 gregarious. And I -- I didn’t know how to interpret
14 her nonpresence at the hospital. I may know more
15 about that now, but it’s all just speculation. But
16 that was unusual behavior for a mother.
17 Q. Okay. You feel like you understand more
18 about that now.
19 A. I do, yes.
20 Q. And why is that.
21 A. I’ve been told that David was beating her
22 up, and threatening her if she would come down
23 there, that he was going to kill her.
24 Q. You also talked about the children making
25 phone calls to celebrities.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. I believe so far we’ve talked about Chris
28 Tucker. He was one, correct. 3102
1 A. They were friends with Chris.
2 Q. So as far as you know, did Chris Tucker
3 enjoy talking on the phone to the children.
4 A. I know that he did.
5 Q. What about Jamie.
6 A. Jamie loves the children.
7 Q. What about George Lopez, when things were
8 still okay between the family.
9 A. He loves the children. He had a problem
10 with David.
11 Q. Did you ever see Janet selling tickets at
12 the hospital to the benefit.
13 A. No, I didn’t.
14 Q. And there was a great deal of testimony
15 dealing with the subject of coaching the Arvizo
16 children.
17 A. Uh-huh. Right.
18 Q. Did you have an impression as to who would
19 be the coach in that situation.
20 A. No, I really didn’t.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. I couldn’t tell.
23 Q. Would it ever be Janet.
24 A. I wouldn’t have been able to make that
25 assessment.
26 Q. Now, specifically you’ve mentioned two
27 occasions, I think, that you thought the children
28 were coached; one involving a computer -- 3103
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. -- and another involving when Star was
3 coached, you felt he was coached about saying he
4 just got love for Christmas.
5 A. Yes. And as soon as David went down to the
6 car, Gavin told me the truth.
7 Q. Okay. Let’s talk about that. Tell me the
8 circumstances of that second incident.
9 A. I called to make sure they were there,
10 because I wanted to bring them my presents for
11 Christmas. And I said, “What else did you get for
12 Christmas, Star.” And he said, “Just love.”
13 Q. Now, was this -- were you in the room at the
14 time.
15 A. No, I was on the phone --
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. -- to make sure they were there before I
18 came down.
19 Q. And this was at the hospital.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And Gavin’s hospital room.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And so you’re talking to Star, and you ask
24 him this question, and he says what.
25 A. “Just love.”
26 Q. And that sounded what to you.
27 A. It sounded coached.
28 Q. Okay. But did you know it was coached. 3104
1 A. No, I didn’t know it.
2 Q. It just sounded funny to you.
3 A. It didn’t sound like something a child would
4 say, unless they say that in their family, unless
5 it’s like a family thing, that that’s what they say.
6 Q. Okay. So then you go back down to the
7 hospital.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. How much time between the phone call and the
10 trip to the hospital.
11 A. Half hour.
12 Q. And who do you find when you’re at the
13 hospital. Who’s there.
14 A. All three of the children and David.
15 Q. Okay. Anything else said about what the
16 kids got for Christmas.
17 A. When David took my gift down to the car,
18 Gavin told me that Michael had given them a Play
19 Station 2.
20 Q. And what impression, if any, did that leave
21 upon you.
22 A. I went, “Oh.” Well, I was happy for them.
23 And I -- I felt that, with David gone, they would
24 tell me the truth.
25 Q. Did you notice any difference in the
26 behavior between the children when they were around
27 David and their mother.
28 A. They were much more affectionate with their 3105
1 mother.
2 Q. Are those the only two incidents where you
3 felt you had an impression that the children were
4 coached.
5 A. Those were the only two, yeah.
6 Q. Okay. But, in fact, did you ever see any
7 coaching going on.
8 A. Never.
9 Q. Have you ever seen Janet Arvizo under any
10 circumstances where you believe she was teaching her
11 children to lie.
12 A. No. Never.
13 Q. Have you ever had that impression.
14 A. No.
15 Q. There was a statement that I believe you
16 said there were some unintelligible remarks about
17 it, but I want to find out what your true feelings
18 are.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. Something about Janet making David do
21 things.
22 A. I never said anything to that effect.
23 I wouldn’t have witnessed any of that behavior,
24 ever.
25 Q. Is that your impression, that Janet made
26 David do things.
27 A. No.
28 Q. What is your impression of the powers 3106
Subject: March 22, 2005 
Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:11 am
