1 You may answer.
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
3 Q. BY MR. SANGER: And you indicated that your
4 experience involved 80,000 fingerprints, and then
5 you said, “Well, it may have been 120,000.” That’s
6 a 50 percent increase in the number of fingerprints.
7 MR. NICOLA: Objection. Beyond the scope of
8 redirect and it’s argumentative.
9 THE COURT: Sustained on beyond the scope.
10 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Now, you talked about DNA
11 testing. My understanding is that you haven’t sent
12 anything out for DNA testing yourself for a number
13 of years, correct?
14 A. The last time I was involved with sending
15 anything out for DNA testing was prior to August of
17 Q. Okay. So you don’t know how long DNA
18 testing -- let me withdraw that. You don’t even
19 know what DNA testing was done in this case, if any,
21 A. I do know that some items were sent to the
22 Goleta DOJ lab.
23 Q. Do you know what testing was done?
24 A. They were sent for DNA analysis, as far as I
26 Q. But you don’t know what testing was done?
27 A. No, I do not know what DOJ did with those
28 items. 3994
1 Q. And you don’t know for how long they held
2 them and for what reason?
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. Now, Exhibit 470, I’ll just hold it up here.
5 Exhibit 470 is that briefcase, right?
6 A. That’s correct, sir.
7 Q. All right. And the items that you formed an
8 opinion on involving your opinion that the prints
9 were from Gavin and Star Arvizo, all were derived
10 from this briefcase; is that correct?
11 MR. NICOLA: Objection. Misstates the
12 evidence; lack of foundation.
13 THE COURT: Overruled.
14 You may answer.
15 THE WITNESS: Part of the items came -- of
16 the prints that were made came from the items that
17 we got back from Department of Justice on 8-3. And
18 the rest of them, I believe, came out of the black
19 briefcase, which I got on 10-5.
20 Q. BY MR. SANGER: Okay. They were all 317,
22 A. They were all 317, yes.
23 Q. So your understanding is, based on your
24 experience in your office, that they’re all Item No.
25 317. They would have come out of Item No. 317,
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. And this briefcase was Item No. 317. It’s 3995
1 now Exhibit 470, but it was Sheriff’s Item 317,
3 A. That’s correct.
4 Q. All right. And you have no way of knowing
5 if and when or whether or not Star or Gavin Arvizo
6 opened this briefcase and looked through it, do you?
7 A. I have no knowledge what happened to that
8 briefcase prior to 10-5.
9 MR. SANGER: All right. I have no further
11 THE COURT: Anything else?
12 MR. NICOLA: No, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may
14 step down.
15 Call your next witness.
16 MR. ZONEN: We’ll call Jamie Masada to the
18 THE COURT: Come to the front of the
19 courtroom, please. When you get up to the witness
20 stand here, please remain standing.
21 When you get to the witness stand, face the
22 clerk and raise your right hand.
24 JAMIE MASADA
25 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
27 THE WITNESS: I do.
28 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and 3996
1 spell your name for the record.
2 THE WITNESS: My name is Jamie, J-a-m-i-e;
3 and my last name is Masada, M-a-s-a-d-a.
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. ZONEN:
7 Q. Mr. Masada, good morning.
8 A. Good morning, sir.
9 Q. What do you do for a living?
10 A. I do -- I have a Laugh Factory Comedy Club.
11 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Sir, I need you to speak
12 into the microphone.
13 THE WITNESS: Oh, I’m sorry, I apologize.
14 Q. MR. ZONEN: We have to do this with
16 A. I’m sorry, I apologize.
17 I own The Laugh Factory Comedy Club. And I
18 do a couple of different kind of charities. I’m
19 involved with different charities to help kids and
20 homeless people and different stuff.
21 Q. Let’s start with The Laugh Factory. What is
22 The Laugh Factory?
23 A. The Laugh Factory, sir, is a comedy club
24 that some of the people, well-known comic or unknown
25 comic, they come up there, they get their break.
26 And we bring studio people, or somebody come see
27 them and look at them. Maybe some of them, they
28 have a talent, they get a break on, they become 3997
2 And it’s people that come in, ordinary
3 people that come, they pay admission to come in to
4 watch the talent.
5 Q. How many Laugh Factories do you have now?
6 A. I have -- I did have another one in Hawaii,
7 closed for temporary. Right now two, sir.
8 Q. Okay. One is in New York City?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And the one in Hawaii is temporarily closed?
11 A. Yes, because of the hotel remodeling.
12 Q. Where in Hawaii is it?
13 A. In Waikiki.
14 Q. Okay. Now, the original one is the one in
15 Los Angeles; is that correct?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. When did you open The Laugh Factory in Los
19 A. 1979.
20 Q. How did that come about? How did you come
21 up with such an idea?
22 A. Oh, God. Okay. Let’s see where I can
23 start. It was -- at that point I was a comedian.
24 There was a strike going on about comedian. And the
25 comedian that wasn’t getting paid. And one of the
26 comedian, John, from the Hyatt House, jump down, and
27 he actually kill himself. And I was very disturbed
28 and upset. And I thought, I got to do something. 3998
1 So at that point, I walking down the street
2 and I saw a place for lease, and -- I find that
3 place, and I came up with the name “Laugh Factory.”
4 I started Laugh Factory, and it was the first club
5 where I paid the comedians.
6 Q. Mr. Masada, how old were you when you leased
7 that space and opened The Laugh Factory?
8 A. I wasn’t even 16. I put it under name of
9 Neil Israel at that point, because he was -- he
10 backed me up and he was the person -- he actually --
11 Q. You were 16 years old?
12 A. Yes, sir. About almost 17, and a half, yes.
13 Q. Did you actually speak English at the time?
14 A. I don’t know. I’m still -- I think I still
15 am not speaking that good English anyway.
17 Q. When you came to this country, did you speak
19 A. Not much. “Hello, how are you?” That’s
20 about it.
21 Q. How old were you when you came to this
23 A. 14.
24 Q. From where?
25 A. Directly from Israel. Iran, Israel and
27 Q. And to the United States?
28 A. Yes, sir. 3999
1 Q. Excuse me. Tell us what the comedy camp is.
2 Well, before I do that, let me go back to The Laugh
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. It has been in existence for a number of
6 years now?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Would it be safe to say that a number of
9 well-known comedians have passed through The Laugh
11 A. I mean, the number of well-known comedians,
12 they still come through The Laugh Factory all the
14 Q. Tell us who. Who are some of the guests who
15 have come through The Laugh Factory?
16 A. Last couple of weeks, Jon Levitz. Chris
17 Rock. Robin Williams. I could name many, many
18 people that come.
19 Q. Name a few more.
20 A. Bob Saget. Chris Tucker. God, George Lopez
21 sometime. Paul Rodriguez. Paul Mooney. They all
22 stop by.
23 Q. Okay. Now, tell me about the comedy camp.
24 What is that?
25 A. The comedy camp is for underprivileged kids,
26 the kids that they don’t -- the kids that are
27 disturbed or underprivileged, and that’s how I
28 created for. 4000
1 Q. And what is it?
2 A. It’s bringing the kid in, and bringing --
3 asking all of the well-known comedian to come in to
4 teach them a little bit of confidence and give them
5 a little bit of confidence through life. Some of
6 them, they might become a comedian. Some of them
7 might not become a comedian. But you give them
8 confidence. You give them this big star teaching
9 them how to perform, how to go through life and be
10 confident in life.
11 Q. Are these principally underprivileged
13 A. Most of them underprivileged children, yes,
15 Q. And what does that mean? I mean, what is
16 the criteria for somebody to get into the comedy
18 A. If -- you know, if I see the kid, for
19 example, they are shy, they don’t have -- they
20 cannot -- like, they don’t have ability to talk in
22 Or I see people that they really come from
23 very poor family, or single family, or -- most of
24 them they come out there, they don’t even have
25 family. They are living in group home. They
26 live -- stay in foster homes. And that’s the type
27 of kid we get in comedy.
28 But sometime, you know, you get a few of 4001
1 them that they are -- you know, they are -- what you
2 call them? They’re talented and they’re kids, and
3 their parents push them in, and you bring them in,
4 and they are -- you know, we don’t -- we overlook
5 that they are not poor. But most of them, they are
6 underprivileged people.
7 Q. All right. Do you do the evaluation to
8 decide who gets into the comedy camp?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Do you meet with every child who comes
11 through the comedy camp?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Have you maintained relationships with many
14 children who have passed through the comedy camp?
15 A. Most of the time. Yeah, most of them. Some
16 of them, all of a sudden I don’t hear from them.
17 But 90 percent of the kids always talk to -- they
18 call me back anytime they are in trouble or anytime
19 they are in any kind of problem, they call me. They
20 ask me for help, you know.
21 I mean, like last night before coming here,
22 one of the kids, you know, has -- he walked out of
23 the foster home, and he comes by, you know, the
24 place. And he was -- I don’t know if he was on
25 drugs, whatever, whatever. You try to help him out.
26 You try to give him direction. Give him a little
27 bit of financial. “Hey, you got to go back. If you
28 don’t go back to your foster home, you’re going to 4002
1 get arrested,” that type of stuff.
2 Q. Tell me how the comedy camp is structured.
3 A child who comes into the camp, how often do they
4 come? How regularly? Who do they work with? What
5 do they do?
6 A. Most of the kids that come to the comedy
7 camp, the structure of the comedy camp is we usually
8 take about 30, 40, maybe -- sometime if -- we have
9 none; sometime have gone over 40 kids; 45, 48 kids.
10 And they usually come in, a lot of them come
11 in from Los Angeles County Department of Children
12 Family Services. They bring a lot of kids that they
13 need they help. They bring them to me.
14 And they usually -- the comedy camp meet
15 once a week, on Saturdays. We provide them lunch,
16 and they get -- I call some of the people that --
17 one of my greatest -- one of the best person was
18 coming to comedy camp that always encourage a lot of
19 kids, it was Richard Pryor. He would come in
20 always. He was one of the greatest. He came in,
21 and he always encouraged kids. And he encouraged
22 that. He came from a whorehouse. “Look at what I
23 made, what I made of myself. You guys can do the
24 same thing.”
25 Q. Mr. Masada, how many kids do you think have
26 gone through the comedy camp since you founded it?
27 A. I think around -- I am not sure. I think
28 over 400; 400 people. 4003
1 Q. Is there actually a graduation ceremony of
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. What do you do?
5 A. We prepare the comedian -- we take the kids,
6 we gave them to one of -- another comedian,
7 well-known comedian. Well-known comedian take that
8 kid and coach them in last few days.
9 And then we have a night, and we going to
10 try in front of real audience. They go on, and they
11 get paid for it, and they become a real comedian.
12 They get a flag. They get gifts. They get -- a lot
13 of stuff they get. And they are very cheerful. We
14 have a cake for them. And it’s kind of like a
15 little ceremony, our own ceremony.
16 Q. Do kids stand up and do a comedy routine?
17 A. Yes, they do.
18 Q. For how long? How many minutes do they get
19 to be up there?
20 A. They usually do three minute. Sometimes the
21 kid is very, very talented. I seen them, they go on
22 as much as seven, eight, ten minutes. I mean, it
23 depends on the kid, how much talent it is.
24 And we try to teach them -- they have a
25 little light. We have a red light we give them.
26 And if the red light goes on, they got to get off,
27 and sometimes they don’t see it.
28 Q. Do they write their own material? 4004
1 A. They usually write their own material.
2 Except celebrity type of comic help them out last
3 few days, help them out to, say, punch up their
4 lines or punch up their material.
5 Q. Are they encouraged to do material that
6 they’re familiar with, things about themselves or
7 their lives?
8 A. Yes, sir. We are always encourage them to
9 talk about the pain, because I -- personally, I
10 believe laughter is the healing. Laughter is, you
11 know, something that could heal, and it could -- I
12 work with a Norman Cousins quote, and he wrote a
13 book called “Laughter is the Best Medicine,” and I
14 believe in that.
15 I believe in, because this kid, they never
16 got a chance to be a kid. So I think by expressing
17 themself and talking about the pain they going
18 through, they heal the whole thing. And that’s --
19 that’s what’s comedy camp.
20 Q. The child who enters the comedy camp will
21 come how many weeks before graduation?
22 A. Ten to twelve weeks, sir.
23 Q. Is it always during the summer, or is it
25 A. No, it’s always in the summer.
26 Q. And what day of the week is it that they
28 A. Saturday, sir. 4005
1 Q. Do they ever come on a Monday?
2 A. No. They come in maybe -- on Monday they
3 come in if it’s -- for example, a celebrity want to
4 meet with them on Monday before graduation.
5 Q. Uh-huh.
6 A. They might do that --
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. -- on Monday, coming in. For example, some
9 big celebrity comes in and said, “I don’t have to
10 come in -- I don’t have time to come in on Saturday
11 or Sunday, but I’ll meet you Monday. Let’s go over
12 material in the club and I help you out.” That has
14 Q. Do you try to make sure that a celebrity is
15 with every child?
16 A. Define what’s the “celebrity.”
17 Q. Somebody who’s a working, practicing
18 stand-up comedian, earns a living doing that.
19 A. Yes, the person making a living out of it,
20 yes. I try to find some people that they are
21 mostly, you know, known.
22 Q. So it is, in effect, a mentorship of sorts?
23 A. Some type, yes, sir.
24 Q. Do you know the Arvizo family?
25 A. Yes, sir, I do.
26 Q. And how did you become familiar with the
27 Arvizo family?
28 A. I think, if I’m not mistaken, the first time 4006
1 I met Arvizo family was -- was the first time we had
2 a comedy camp at the club. And I believe, if I’m
3 not mistaken, is a gentleman called Eric Site. He
4 was from Los Angeles County Dis -- the Los Angeles
5 County Children and Family Services.
6 He recommend them, or teacher recommended to
7 him, and he brought them in, or he told the mother
8 to bring them in, and they came in.
9 And the first time I met them, they went on
10 the stage and I watched them, what they doing,
11 what’s going on. And it was at that point was I
12 believe on the time that I was doing interview.
13 Eric Site was present, a lady called Julia Now was
14 present. It was Robert Harper was present. It was
15 Jo-Jo was present.
16 Q. Who are you talking about? These are people
17 who evaluated their entry?
18 A. These are the people that sit back watching
19 and seeing it. And it’s a gentleman called Patrick
20 Press (sic) from FOX TV was there that year, was
21 doing a -- what you call -- was doing a documentary
22 about comedy camp. His name is Patrick Press (sic).
23 And he was with his filmmaker, with a cameraman.
24 Q. Did you interview the Arvizo family to
25 determine whether they should come into the camp?
26 A. Yes, sir, I did.
27 Q. And how many kids were there?
28 A. Three. 4007
1 Q. Can you name them for us?
2 A. Yes. It was Star. It was Davellin. It was
4 Q. Okay. Did you meet their mother?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. And what is her name?
7 A. Janet.
8 Q. Did these kids come for the entire camp
9 academy, from the beginning to the end, and
11 A. I think they came in except one time, as I
12 recall, because they did not have enough money to
13 get bus to come in. They were coming in with bus.
14 Q. Coming with what?
15 A. Except one time they did not have money, or
16 something to get the bus to come in.
17 Q. Oh, take the bus.
18 A. Take the bus to come in.
19 Q. So you think they may have missed one
21 A. I think I -- may I take some water, if you
22 don’t mind? I’m sorry. I’ve got a cold. I’m
23 trying --
24 Q. You’re not alone.
25 A. If you wanted some Cold-Eze, I have some
26 Cold-Eze for you.
28 A. All right, sir. 4008
1 Q. As long as we don’t give it to the jury.
2 A. No, I won’t.
3 I’m sorry, I’ll talk this way. I’m not
4 talking that way, I’m sorry.
5 Q. Mr. Masada, was it your understanding that
6 they would commute each time they came to The Laugh
7 Factory by public transportation or by bus?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. And on each of those occasions, did Janet
10 Arvizo bring the three children there?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Did you get to know them during the period
13 of time that they were at The Laugh Factory comedy
15 A. Yes, I did.
16 Q. All right. Did you develop a friendship or
17 closeness with any of the children?
18 A. I usually -- you know, all of them, I look
19 at them the same way. You know, I don’t look at one
20 kid is better than another kid. You know, all of
21 them, to me, they were all like my own kids. So all
22 38, 40 of them, whatever were there, all of them --
23 I looked at them the same way. I didn’t make
24 special effort to be more friendly with them than
25 the other different people.
26 Q. What year was the academy that they went to,
27 the comedy camp that they went to?
28 A. The Laugh Factory comedy camp was on 1999. 4009
1 Q. Do you have a sense of how old the children
2 were when they went?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Tell us.
5 A. I believe one of the kids was eight. One of
6 them was nine. One -- no, one of them was eight.
7 One of them was nine. One of them was 13.
8 Q. 13 being the daughter?
9 A. The daughter. Yes, sir.
10 Q. And who was eight and who was nine? Do you
11 remember who was older?
12 A. Yeah, I believe Gavin was nine. Star was
14 Q. All right. At some point in time, did you
15 learn that one of the children became ill?
16 A. Not after I heard -- they graduated.
17 Everything went perfect. The documentary was on FOX
18 TV. Everything was perfect. Then I keep in touch,
19 you know, for their birthday, or giving something,
20 or if they need some money, or anybody needs
21 something, they always call me they need some help.
22 And the next time I heard, I was keeping
23 contact with them, the mother called me, said that
24 Gavin have cancer, and he’s sick, he’s ill.
25 And I kind of was in shock. “What’s
26 happened? What’s going on? Where we going?”
27 “Tomorrow we going to see another doctor,”
28 this, this. 4010
1 They call me. I don’t know when I was
3 And then I got another call that they going
4 to go operate. I said, “When they go operate?”
5 They said such and such. And I said, “I’ll be
7 Q. Mr. Masada, who was it who called you?
8 A. Janet.
9 Q. Did she ask anything of you, any favor of
10 you, or ask you to do anything on her behalf?
11 A. Yes, she did.
12 Q. What was that?
13 A. She said I should pray. She ask me if I can
14 pray, and thank you for all of the help I did. If I
15 can pray. And I said, “Okay, I’ll go to church
16 tomorrow and do some prayer.”
17 Q. And did you go visit Gavin at the hospital?
18 A. Yes, I was there the time they operate, and
19 I went there every day afterwards.
20 Q. Who was Gavin’s mentor while he was at the
21 comedy camp?
22 A. God, the time -- the graduation you mean?
23 Q. Yes.
24 A. Or the time -- or the whole thing?
25 Q. If there was more than one, tell us.
26 A. Oh, yeah, there was -- I believe, if I’m
27 not mistaken, Paul Rodriguez was one of them. Bob
28 Saget was one of them. Rob Schneider was one of 4011
1 them. Eddie Griffin was one of them. Dave Chappell
2 was one of them.
3 Oh, God. Let me think. My memory is not
4 that great. Forgive me. Especially cold.
5 Who else was -- I believe Howie Mandell was
6 one of them. And who else was it? Come on. Paul
7 Mooney was one of them. Oh, God, come on. How many
8 did I call? How many names I say?
9 Q. Well, let me ask it this way. You’ve
10 mentioned a whole bunch of names. Are these people
11 that came in during the course of the entire camp?
12 A. Yes, they came through the whole camp. And
13 each time they came in, they become a mentor to them
14 for that week.
15 Q. Oh, I see. Okay. Do you know if there was
16 one in particular that worked with the Arvizo
17 children on more than one week?
18 A. Oh, yeah, George Lopez.
19 Q. George Lopez?
20 A. Yes, I’m sorry.
21 Q. And you do recall that at this time?
22 A. Yes, sir, I do.
23 Q. When you went to see Gavin at the hospital
24 the first time, how did you find him? I mean, in
25 what condition did you find him?
26 A. I -- oh, God. After operation or before
28 Q. When was the first time? Before the 4012
1 operation or after?
2 A. Before operation. He was -- he was kind of
3 like a -- his stomach was big. He was yellow, and
4 his -- he looked like a -- very, very sick, like
5 something was -- you know, all with -- his face was
6 all white and yellow. He had no color in the face.
7 And after operation, I kept on going, and --
8 oooh, God, don’t bring that memory back.
9 I kept on going. And anytime I go up there,
10 I see a poor kid every day, he’s deteriorating. All
11 of a sudden, I see he lost his hair, because they
12 were -- you know, after a while they -- the
13 operation and everything, they gave him chemo. And
14 all of a sudden he lost his hair. He kept on losing
15 weight. I think -- I’m -- without exaggeration, I
16 think he was -- one time he was -- weighed about 60,
17 65 pounds. He was bone and skin.
18 And then I would watch. I would go every
19 morning, I would take some doughnut for the nurses
20 up there and to go see them, and to see her -- to
21 see him every day, every morning. And he was
22 deteriorating to the point of -- it was
23 unbelievable. I would go there, I would walk out
24 tear in my eyes, because I didn’t know what to do.
25 What do you do with a kid like that?
26 And at one point --
27 MR. MESEREAU: I’m going to object to the
28 narrative. 4013
1 THE COURT: Sustained.
2 THE WITNESS: I’m sorry. I’m sorry.
3 MR. ZONEN: Let me move on.
4 THE WITNESS: What did I do wrong?
5 MR. ZONEN: We have our own rules here.
6 It’s a little bit different.
7 Q. When -- you were visiting him on a regular
8 basis; is that right?
9 A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Would you bring things for him?
11 A. I would -- I don’t -- I’m not very good --
12 I’m sorry. I’m not very good with giving gifts.
13 And I give them financial. You know, I go up there,
14 “Hey, if you eat, for example, today, if you eat, if
15 you keep what you doing, I give you 50 bucks.”
16 This, this.
17 I kept on encouraging to give them. “If you
18 save your money, I put all of your money together.
19 When you get better, me and you, we go shopping.
20 Here’s $50. Here’s that, that.” I give him every
21 week some money, a $50 bill.
22 Q. A $50 bill?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Did you do that more than once?
25 A. Oh, yeah.
26 Q. How many times do you think you gave him $50
28 A. Oh, God, I think about six, seven times. 4014
1 Q. Was encouraging him to eat an important
2 thing at that time?
3 A. Yeah, the doctor -- one time, the doctor --
4 you got to picture, this kid is dying. The doctor
5 told me he has two, three weeks to live.
6 So me, I was trying to do everything I can
7 in my power. And the doctor told me, “He’s --
8 he’s -- right now, he’s deteriorating. If he don’t
9 eat anything, if he doesn’t” -- they were feeding
10 him food from his wing. “And if he doesn’t eat, if
11 he doesn’t eat - encourage him - he’s going to die.”
12 So what I would do every morning, I would
13 have a comedian with me, different comic every
14 morning, different comic would go with me and cheer
15 him up, tell him a joke. And beside that, I would
16 go up there in the hospital, I tried to give him
17 food, you know, to eat, to feed him.
18 Q. Mr. Masada, you really grabbed comedians out
19 of the club, took them to the hospital and said,
20 “Start telling him jokes”?
21 A. Yeah, I --
22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
23 THE WITNESS: What did I do now?
24 THE COURT: It’s not leading. But it’s
25 something. I’ll sustain it.
27 THE WITNESS: I’m sorry. Did you say
28 something to me? 4015
1 THE COURT: It’s not to you, no.
2 THE WITNESS: No? I’m okay?
3 THE COURT: I’m talking to the attorneys.
4 THE WITNESS: All right.
5 MR. ZONEN: Would you like me to do that
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Tell us how you did that,
9 please. Tell us what you did with comedians.
10 A. A comedian always have -- say Bob Marley,
11 Dane Cook, Frazier, me, I say to any of them, “Guys,
12 meet me in the morning. We got to go to” -- each
13 one of them, they would -- wake them up in the
14 morning, I would drag them with me to the hospital.
15 And they would go up, and just kind of make
16 a little scene for him, “Bah, bah-bah,” whatever he
17 did, little joke, like a clown, make a little smile
18 on his face. That’s what we tried to do.
19 Q. Did this go on for months?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Did you give him other gifts during that
23 A. Not -- not gifts. The example, I give him
24 money, you know how I give him money all the time.
25 Q. Was there a point when he was well enough to
26 go home and then begin the chemotherapy treatments?
27 A. No, he would -- he didn’t go home right
28 away. It was sometime we were trying -- you know, 4016
1 one time, point, it was almost that he was dying and
2 he’s -- you know, we were trying to feed him food.
3 And his mouth -- because he was taking chemotherapy,
4 when you take chemotherapy, your mouth is all
5 bleeding. It’s like your skin in mouth is gone.
6 You -- your mouth has no skin or anything go in your
7 mouth, it’s like bleeding.
8 So I was encouraging, trying to give him ice
9 cream. I chopped -- what they call it? --
10 cantaloupe in his mouth. “If you eat, I’ll do this,
11 I’ll do this, I’ll do that.” And I keep on
12 encouraging him for different stuff to eat. And I
13 do anything I could do, clowning around, doing
14 anything I can to make him eat. At one point he --
15 Q. Mr. --
16 A. I’m sorry. At one point he had an O
17 negative blood, too.
18 Q. That’s what I was going ask you.
19 A. Oh.
20 Q. Did you commence a blood drive or do
21 something to facilitate a blood drive?
22 A. Yeah.
23 Q. What did you do?
24 A. He had O negative, I heard, from -- what’s
25 the name of that, the blood drive that they do? The
26 blood drive. It’s not Salvation Army. No, what’s
27 the blood drive? Come on. Red Cross.
28 Q. Red Cross? 4017
1 A. I’m sorry. Red Cross.
2 I heard from Red Cross that they were --
3 didn’t have enough blood, blood for him. So what I
4 did, I put on my marquee, I put the sign on the
5 door, “Anybody go give blood to the kids, they can
6 come in and get -- come in the club, get free in the
7 club,” and they get food free.
8 The people, they went -- actually, I have
9 like a one night of like a gathering for them. They
10 come to the club and they have everything on the --
11 I have some good comedians, watch good comedians,
12 all of them, for me to encourage people to go give
14 And one time Red Cross came in the club
15 actually and they did a blood drive in the club. At
16 the time we encourage people, comedian, go on the
17 stage, tell jokes at the time the people give blood.
18 So we got creative. And I encourage -- and I got a
19 couple of radio station and a couple of T.V.
20 station. Mostly T.V. station. I got ABC, I got
21 NBC, to do a little promo about the blood, if they
22 can get somebody with blood coming in, if they can
23 do something about the blood.
24 And they did. As a matter of fact, Phil
25 from -- from ABC came in -- he came in the hospital
26 with a camera and he talked to me, and he showed
27 me -- I feed him the blood -- I’m sorry, feed him
28 the food, and -- sorry. So -- 4018
1 Q. Let’s move on.
2 Did you ever do a fund-raiser on behalf of
3 Gavin Arvizo out of The Laugh Factory?
4 A. Yes, we did.
5 Q. All right. Were you working with anybody in
6 particular on that?
7 A. What do you mean, did I work with anybody
9 Q. Well, were you the one organizing?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Do you know how many fund-raisers you did?
12 A. I think I -- you know, with blood drive,
13 everything, financial one was couple of them. I
14 think we did two, yes.
15 Q. And that’s separate from your efforts to
16 encourage blood donation?
17 A. Yeah, the blood donations was kept another
18 thing. We did different things for them, yes.
19 Q. How does it work that you do a benefit,
20 financial benefit for somebody through The Laugh
21 Factory? How does that work?
22 A. The way it works is we -- we have a person,
23 for example, if it’s charity, if it’s not a charity,
24 somebody else it is that they want a fund-raiser, we
25 give them -- we say, “Here is the door. Whatever
26 people that come in, you collect the money.” If
27 it’s charity, they collect the money. And the money
28 goes to them. 4019
1 My employee instructions are, “Do not touch
2 their money. Their money is their money.”
3 Whatever -- some poor people come in and give them
4 $20, some people give them 50, whatever they want to
5 give them, and that’s what we do. And they take the
6 door. If there’s anybody -- people they want to buy
7 a drink or they want to buy anything else, we keep
8 it. We don’t give it back. But the rest of it all
9 go to the charity.
10 Q. Okay. Mr. Masada, do you know David Arvizo?
11 A. Yes, I do, sir.
12 Q. And how did you meet him?
13 A. I met him in the hospital. First time I met
14 him in the hospital.
15 Q. All right. You had already known Janet
16 Arvizo; is that correct?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Was it your understanding that David was
19 Janet’s husband?
20 A. That’s what I was introduced by.
21 Q. And the father of the three children?
22 A. Yes. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Did you become involved with David Arvizo in
24 fund-raising efforts in some fashion?
25 A. Yes, sir.
26 Q. All right. Was he involved in the two
27 fund-raisers at The Laugh Factory?
28 A. Yes, sir. 4020
1 Q. Was Janet Arvizo there at either of those
3 A. As far as I remember, I don’t recall Janet
4 be there at all.
5 Q. Do you know how the money was collected on
6 either of those two occasions, those two
8 A. Yes. I believe first time was David and --
9 David and -- David and the kids. I told them, you
10 know, “Here is the table. Sit in here.” And I
11 wanted somebody else sit with them. I don’t know
12 who was it, but they sit by the door. Whatever they
13 came in -- you know, most of my audience, they come
14 in, they gave them money, whatever they gave them.
15 Q. Do you know approximately how much money
16 would have been raised on either of those two
17 fund-raisers based on your experience in the past?
18 A. Oh, God. I don’t think it was anywhere --
19 you know, I don’t think it was -- any of them was
20 more than 2,000 bucks. I don’t think so. Never to
21 near 2,000 bucks. Maybe, eight, 900, 1200. I have
22 no idea.
23 Q. Okay. Do you think that 2,000 would be the
24 maximum they would have received?
25 A. Yeah, maximum. Maximum, I would think.
26 Q. On either of those two occasions, did you
27 collect the money or somebody working with you
28 collect the money? 4021
1 A. No. They did it. They did it. I think one
2 time, as I recall, David had sat down with one of
3 the employees that collect the money. And the
4 employee that sat down, David and the employee sat
5 down, and David was very upset because George Lopez
6 was supposed to be there, and George Lopez didn’t
7 come out. And George Lopez had an argument with
8 him, whatever, and he was kind of like upset. And I
9 took the money, I brought it up, I gave it to him
11 Q. Okay. Do you know how much money that was?
12 A. I think it was about 800, thousand dollars,
13 or something like that. 800, 900.
14 Q. During the time that you knew George -- that
15 you knew David Arvizo, did he ever ask you for
17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
18 THE WITNESS: What do I do?
19 THE COURT: Just a moment.
21 MR. MESEREAU: I’ll withdraw the objection.
22 I’ll withdraw it.
23 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did David Arvizo ever ask you
24 for money?
25 A. Yes, he did.
26 Q. How often?
27 A. Many time.
28 Q. How often is “many”? Give us a sense. 4022
1 A. Anytime he was bringing the kids in, in to
2 visit me in the office, or I would go, he would walk
3 out with me. He said, “Well,” you know, something,
4 “We haven’t had soup, we haven’t had lunch.”
5 I mean, poor guy. You know, I gave it to
6 him, because I wanted to give it to him. Poor guy,
7 he needed money for eating, whatever. He was
8 unemployed. And I gave him whatever. You know,
9 anytime he asked me, I gave him some cash.
10 Q. Did he tell you he was not working?
11 A. Yes, he did.
12 Q. Did he tell you why he was not working?
13 A. No, he did not. I mean, I assumed, but I
14 didn’t ask, “Why you not working?” Because his kid
15 was sick in the hospital.
16 Q. Did you ever see Gavin’s mother, Janet
17 Arvizo, at the hospital when you visited?
18 A. Yes, several times I saw her.
19 Q. Okay. Was she there as often as David was
20 there, could you tell?
21 A. No -- the time I was going there, no, she
22 wasn’t at often. But I was going early in the
23 morning usually, because my days start in the
24 morning, early in the morning. And, no -- I mean,
25 several times I saw her, but, no, not that often.
26 Q. Did you maintain communications with Janet
27 Arvizo during the time that her child was sick?
28 A. Yeah. 4023
1 Q. You would talk to her?
2 A. I talked to her once a while. She call me
3 once in a while. Yes, she does.
4 Q. Did Janet Arvizo ever ask you for money?
5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
6 THE COURT: Sustained.
7 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did you ever give Janet
8 Arvizo money?
9 A. No.
10 Q. But you gave David Arvizo money; is that
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. How much money do you think you gave him
14 during the period of time his child was sick?
15 A. You are going to think I’m crazy, but I have
16 no idea. You know, I had money in my cash -- in my
17 pocket, you know. I go out there, you know, he
18 asked me for some money, I gave him, 50 bucks, 40
19 bucks, 70 bucks. And sometime he asked me for gas
20 for car, because he had a car now. He have a
21 “sudan” car that Michael Jackson gave it to him, and
22 he was -- he said he was losing a lot of gas and he
23 need more money for gas. You know, I just gave him
24 the money.
25 Q. Did you ever see the vehicle he was talking
27 A. Yes, I did.
28 Q. And what was it, what kind of vehicle? 4024
1 A. One time he came in the office with a kid,
2 with his two kids, he say, “Oh, Jamie, you got to
3 come see.”
4 “What’s going on?”
5 “Come on, I want to show you something.”
6 And I went, “Okay.”
7 And I went outside in -- on Laurel, and I
8 saw his car was parked in front of the fire hydrant.
9 I said, “Man, this is your car?” He say, “Yes.” I
10 say, “You’re in front of the fire hydrant.” And he
11 parked there, and he opened -- it was a white car,
12 like a -- what you call it? A su -- a “sudan” car,
13 SUV -- what you call it?
14 Q. An SUV, sport utility vehicle?
15 A. Sport utility car.
16 And I remember one thing particular about
17 the car, a T.V. was on the dashboard. A T.V. was on
18 the dashboard. And he said -- I said, “Well,
19 what -- why did Michael give you that car?” He
20 said, “Michael gave me the car so I can take the kid
21 to Neverland.” I said, “Oh, that’s very nice.
22 That’s very generous of him.”
23 And that’s -- that’s the conversation I had
24 with him.
25 Q. Do you know how long he had that car?
26 A. I have no idea.
27 Q. At some point in time, did you have a
28 falling-out with David Arvizo? 4025
1 A. Not really. I never had a fall-out with
3 Q. All right. Was there an incident that took
4 place involving a wallet, a conversation with him
5 about a wallet?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All right. What was that?
8 A. It was -- the first time happen, it was in
9 my club. He came in my office one time. And I
10 remember precisely that whole thing, because I did
11 not have money, cash in my pocket.
12 He came in my office, and he ask that -- he
13 said that Gavin went to George house and somehow he
14 left his wallet with 300, $350 in it, in George
15 house. He lost it in George Lopez’s house.
16 And I said, “Oh, really?” I said, “Gavin,
17 this happened?” And Gavin didn’t say anything. And
18 I just kind of like, “Gavin, this happened? He
19 said, “No.” I said -- and David went near Gavin and
20 he said, “Tell him that happened.” And Gavin didn’t
21 say anything.
22 And I just -- my phone rang. And I tried to
23 pick up the phone, and then I realized Gavin said,
24 “Oh, dad,” like some -- kind of like David elbowed
25 Gavin, or something.
26 And I knew that his face -- Gavin’s face got
27 all red, like the -- the time David hit him, his
28 face was red, and, “Dad,” and something like that. 4026
1 And at that point, I said, “Wait a minute,
2 wait a minute, wait a minute. Guys, come on,
3 let’s -- let me -- what was it? 350?” Whatever.
4 I wrote him a check. I said, “Here’s the
5 check. Go -- here.” I gave him a check for $350.
6 I said, “Don’t even mention it. First, the money
7 was from me. I gave you guys the money. Don’t even
8 get that.”
9 Because I got really upset, because this kid
10 is sick. He elbowed him or something. I didn’t see
11 what’s happened, but I could see from the face of
12 the kid, he did something to him.
13 Q. Did Gavin ever say anything to you to
14 confirm that 300 or $350 was missing from his
16 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
17 MR. ZONEN: State of mind, Your Honor, and
18 explains the behavior.
19 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
20 Go ahead.
21 THE WITNESS: I answer?
22 THE COURT: You may answer.
23 THE WITNESS: What was the question again?
24 I’m sorry.
25 THE COURT: I can have it read back for you.
26 THE WITNESS: Oh, thank you. Thank you,
28 (Record read.) 4027
1 THE WITNESS: No, never said that.
2 MR. ZONEN: May I approach the witness,
3 Your Honor?
4 THE COURT: Cross-examine?
5 MR. ZONEN: No, I’m not done. I said, “May
6 I approach the witness?”
7 THE COURT: I’m sorry. Yes, you may.
9 MR. ZONEN: I’m losing my voice.
10 THE COURT: I was just trying to hurry it
11 along. I’m sorry.
13 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: I’d like to show you an
14 exhibit. This exhibit is marked as Exhibit 624 for
15 identification. Not yet in evidence. Take a look
16 at that, please, and both pages of it. I’ll leave a
17 second exhibit here as well.
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. Do you recognize that?
20 A. Yes, sir, I do.
21 Q. And please tell us what that is.
22 A. That’s a check for $350 to David Arvizo.
23 Q. All right. Is that, in your opinion, the
24 check that you wrote him at that time?
25 A. In my opinion, yes.
26 Q. And the date that’s on there, what is the
28 A. 10-13-00. 4028
1 Q. All right. Would that date have been
2 written on that check accurately? In other words,
3 would you have written the same date on the check as
4 was the date that you wrote it?
5 A. I think so.
6 Q. Okay. Okay. There’s a second exhibit,
7 which I think is 623, right next to you. Go ahead
8 and grab that one and take a look at that.
9 A. Okay. This one?
10 Q. Yes, please.
11 A. All right.
12 Q. And confirm that number. That little kind
13 of pumpkin-colored tag on the bottom should have a
14 number on it.
15 A. This is 623. Case No. 1133603.
16 Q. That’s fine.
17 A. People --
18 Q. That’s fine. It is 623.
19 What is that document that you’re holding?
20 A. It’s a copy.
21 Q. Of what?
22 A. A copy of a check.
23 Q. Okay. What is that check? Is that your
25 A. That’s Laugh Factory check.
26 Q. Made out to whom?
27 A. To David Arvizo.
28 Q. For how much? 4029
1 A. For $800.
2 Q. What do you believe that was for? Do you
3 have a recollection of it?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. What was that?
6 A. I think it’s, again, another time he came,
7 ask me for money that I didn’t have cash with me, so
8 I had to write him a check for his rent.
9 Q. And that was what that check was for?
10 A. That’s what he said for.
11 Q. Do you have a sense of how much money you
12 gave David Arvizo during the time that Gavin was
14 A. Not really.
15 Q. On one of the two occasions that you were
16 having a benefit at The Laugh Factory --
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. -- did you have an argument with David, or
19 did he have an argument with you?
20 A. Not really. I don’t recall argument.
21 Q. Did he ever throw money on the floor?
22 A. Oh. One time -- the second, I think, if I’m
23 not mistaken, it was the second time that the money
24 I gave -- we did a fund-raising for David. And we
25 went upstairs, and somehow he was downstairs
26 collecting the money.
27 And we went upstairs, giving the money to
28 David Arvizo. And David all of a sudden -- we gave 4030
1 him the money. And I ask him about -- again, one
2 more time about -- because Gavin was up there.
3 Somebody was there. I can’t recall who was there.
4 Somebody was -- few people that were up there, they
5 ask me about the wallet. Somehow the wallet came
6 up. And David was trying to tell Gavin to talk
7 about the wallet. And Gavin did not want to say
8 anything about it. He said he didn’t know what
9 wallet he’s talking about.
10 And because of he wasn’t -- kid was not
11 confirming what he was saying, and he throw the
12 money at me. And I’m kind of like -- you know, I
13 was kind of like insulted; I say how unappreciated
14 person he is, so I start walking away.
15 Q. You walked away?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. All right. What happened to the money?
18 A. I have no idea. Maybe somebody picked it
19 up. I have no idea.
20 Q. You left it behind, though?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You didn’t pick it up?
23 A. No, I was upset at that time.
24 Q. Was this the money that was the door money
25 to one of those benefits?
26 A. Yes, sir.
27 Q. All right. What was it that you said to Mr.
28 Arvizo prior to him doing that? 4031
1 A. I think was something to do -- I mean,
2 again, it’s -- God, it’s five years, four years ago.
3 I can’t remember word by word. But it was something
4 to do with wallet.
5 Q. Whose wallet?
6 A. The wallet of Gavin, because I believe I
7 spoke to Ann Lopez. Ann Lopez said they find the
8 wallet and was only $50 in it or something.
9 And I’m trying to ask him, “Wasn’t that what
10 you told me you got a check for, 350 from me?
11 What’s going on in here? Can you explain something
12 here? Something is not kosher in here. Hello?”
13 And he’s kind of like -- he said -- he ask Gavin,
14 “Gavin, confirm what’s happened,” and Gavin would
15 not say anything.
16 Q. That’s the conversation we just had already?
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. Did you have any other dealings with David
19 Arvizo thereafter?
20 A. Yeah, he would come by the club once in a
21 while. He would come in, you know. I mean, at that
22 point after that, you know, it was kind of like, you
23 know, you try to help people, and the time people
24 become a little bit, you know, not truthful, you
25 just kind of like -- you know, you’re not as
26 friendly as you’re supposed to be.
27 So I wasn’t that much friendly with him. I
28 mean, we were still -- we still talk anytime he 4032
1 calls me. I pick up his phone, I talk to him.
2 Q. At some point in time, did you become aware
3 of the fact that the Arvizo -- or any members of the
4 Arvizo family were visiting Neverland, Michael
5 Jackson’s ranch?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. Were you involved in some way in introducing
8 Gavin to Michael Jackson, to your knowledge?
9 A. To my knowledge, I don’t know if it was me
10 doing or so many -- I was in the hospital. The kid
11 was -- you know, he needed help. And his wish
12 was -- looking at a T.V. on the -- in the hospital,
13 he saw Michael Jackson on the T.V., and he said he
14 wanted to meet Michael Jackson. I didn’t know
15 Michael Jackson. I never met Michael Jackson. And
16 I want to bring his wish through like Make a Wish.
17 So I say, “Okay, if you eat, I do anything
18 you want. You want to meet Adam Sandler, all those
19 guys you told me, I’ll introduce him to.”
20 I didn’t know Michael Jackson, but at that
21 point I made several phone calls to different
22 places. I called Paul Mooney, David Salzman. I
23 called Quincy Jones’ office. I called anybody I
24 could to get some kind of number. Somebody say call
25 some -- some -- some studio in Vine Street, called
26 The Studio on Vine Street. I was doing that in the
27 hospital, call The Studio on Vine Street. I tried
28 to call -- they gave me number, they said it’s 4033
1 Neverland. I don’t know if it was Neverland.
2 So I left a message for everybody I could,
3 “Hey, if anybody get this message, please tell
4 Michael to watch this ABC show and this thing, and
5 if he can watch it, please call him tomorrow.
6 There’s this kid dying.”
7 And I left a message. I don’t know if my
8 message got to him or he called next day by chance,
9 by will of God. I have no idea.
10 Q. But in any event, you became aware that
11 Gavin had started having conversations with Mr.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did Gavin ever talk about that when you
15 visited him at the hospital?
16 A. Yes. The next day when he was so impressed
17 and so grateful and so happy to hear from Michael.
18 Michael call him. And he said, “Do you have
19 anything?” I said, “I don’t know.” I made a few
20 phone call. I don’t know if anything came from me.
21 Maybe somebody else call him. I have no idea.
22 But at that point, he was very happy, and he
23 was very excited about it. And you could see his
24 face, he was cheered up a little bit.
25 And what else?
26 Q. Are you aware of whether or not he ever
27 visited Michael Jackson at Neverland Ranch?
28 A. Yes. Father told me Michael invite them to 4034
1 go to Neverland. And they were going to go to
2 Neverland. So I said, “Oh, great. Wonderful. Have
3 a good time.”
4 And father said, “Do you want to go?” And I
5 said, “I got three other kids dying. I got to go
6 take care. I wish I could go. I can’t go to
7 Neverland. I wish I could. But go ahead. You guys
9 Q. At some point in time, did you view or watch
10 the television documentary entitled “Living with
11 Michael Jackson”? Did you ever see that?
12 A. Yes, I did. The second time they showed it.
13 Q. In the United States?
14 A. In United States, yeah.
15 Q. Were you aware that Gavin was going to be
16 featured in that documentary prior to your viewing
18 A. I was aware of it because Janet called me
19 about that.
20 Q. All right. When Janet called you, do you
21 remember when that was?
22 A. No idea. The date -- I’m very bad with
23 date. I’m telling you now, don’t go to the date.
24 Q. Was Gavin -- was Gavin already well at that
26 A. Gavin was not well, but he was -- you know,
27 I mean, still have a problem with the kidney,
28 because, you remember now, he had one kidney, and he 4035
1 have no spleen, and he got to take medication for
2 his spleen, because he goes through any room that
3 have a germ, he could get sick immediately. And he
4 had one kidney. And at the time he have one kidney,
5 you know, he got to go for his blood being, you
6 know, changed or dialysis, or whatever it is. Once
7 in a while he got to do that, all kinds of stuff
8 like that. So he’s not still well.
9 Q. When Janet called you, was she upset?
10 A. She said -- yes, she was upset.
11 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
12 MR. ZONEN: I was just asking whether --
13 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. And
14 the answer was, “Yes.” Next question.
15 MR. ZONEN: All right.
16 Q. You then viewed the documentary “Living with
17 Michael Jackson”; is that right?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. And you watched Gavin in that film?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. Were you aware of whether or not that film
22 itself caused Gavin some problems?
23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay;
25 MR. ZONEN: The question is whether he knew.
26 THE COURT: I’ll allow the question, but you
27 can only answer it “yes” or “no.” And I’ll have it
28 read back to you. 4036
1 THE WITNESS: Okay. Please.
2 (Record read.)
3 THE WITNESS: Yes, it did.
4 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: What were the nature of those
5 problems, to your understanding?
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
7 THE COURT: Sustained.
8 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Were you told by anybody the
9 nature of those problems?
10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
11 MR. ZONEN: State of mind. Not for the
12 truth of the matter.
13 THE COURT: The objection is sustained.
14 MR. ZONEN: All right.
15 Q. Did you do a presentation of any kind or
16 were you filmed in any way on behalf of Michael
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. All right. Tell us about that. When did
20 that happen?
21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.
22 THE COURT: Overruled.
23 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: When did that happen? Go
25 A. It was -- I don’t know, again, the day. It
26 was sometime that -- after Martin Bashir show, that
27 film. And the people, they called -- Janet called
28 and said they needed to do -- 4037
1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
2 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Just tell us what you did.
3 A. What I did. They came in my club and they
4 ask me if I can talk on the T.V. And they talked to
5 me if I can talk about Martin Bashir. I start
6 talking about Martin Bashir, that Martin Bashir --
7 what I thought, that he did something wrong, because
8 showing a kid, underage kid, on his T.V -- on a T.V.
9 for -- he make millions of dollar, and he put this
10 poor kid on a tape, and he didn’t even digitize his
11 face, and people in the school, they call him
12 “faggot” by it. And I -- I felt terrible for him.
13 I really felt horrible about it.
14 Q. Who was it who asked to you do something on
15 tape on behalf of Michael Jackson? Do you know who
16 the person was?
17 A. I think, if I’m not mistaken -- I’m not
18 hundred percent sure, maybe I shouldn’t answer it,
19 but I think it started with Janet.
20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; calls for
22 THE WITNESS: Oh, don’t answer it?
23 THE COURT: Don’t answer.
24 THE WITNESS: I don’t recall.
25 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did that person --
27 MR. ZONEN: Well, that was a more concise
28 answer. 4038
1 THE WITNESS: Well, that was bad?
2 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: No, no, no.
3 How many people showed up?
4 A. They showed up about, oh, God, three, four
5 people, five people.
6 Q. Cameramen included?
7 A. Cameramen.
8 Q. Where did they do the filming?
9 A. In Laugh Factory in Los Angeles.
10 Q. All right. Were any of them introduced to
12 A. I’m sure they were.
13 Q. Do you remember any of their names?
14 A. None.
15 Q. How long was the filming?
16 A. The filming, they said they going to do
17 about two, three minutes, just talk about Martin
18 Bashir. But afterwards, they -- I understood that
19 my mike was on, and they kept on talking to me about
20 Michael. They talked to me about different stuff.
21 I don’t know if they tape all of that. I’m not
22 sure. But they said, “I want to pick up the spot I
23 talk about Martin Bashir, what he did was wrong.”
24 Q. All right. Did you ever see the production
25 that was done that featured you, among other people?
26 A. No, I did not.
27 Q. Do you know if it was ever shown on
28 television? 4039
1 A. I think it was, because people told me it
2 was on T.V.
3 Q. To this day, have you ever seen it?
4 A. No, I got a tape of it, but I never got a
5 chance. I wish I had time to go see it. I have a
6 tape of it. And I know -- I’m -- I don’t look at
7 myself too much.
8 Q. But you’ve never looked -- you’ve never
9 viewed it in its entirety?
10 A. No.
11 Q. And you’ve never viewed the portion that you
13 A. No.
14 Q. And you don’t know if it contains the part
15 that was filmed after you thought you were done, or
16 during the part?
17 A. I have no idea, but the people, they told me
18 what they said. I says, “Well, that’s the press.
19 Let it go.” I didn’t even --
20 Q. Did somebody tell you what to say?
21 A. The people that were there, they were
22 encourage me to talk about Michael. If Michael
23 helped the kid, what my thought was. Who else
24 helped the kid, if Adam Sandler helped the kid, if
25 anybody helped the kid. And I was very open. I was
26 talking about it.
27 Q. What did you understand to be Mr. Jackson’s
28 assistance to this child at the time that you did 4040
1 this video?
2 A. I thought Michael, Adam Sandler, everybody
3 really -- they helped the kid. That’s my belief.
4 Everybody, they did help the kid. At that point I
5 believed that.
6 Q. Did you have any personal information at
7 that time on what Mr. Jackson did on behalf of Gavin
8 Arvizo at the time you did this video?
9 A. What -- I’m sorry.
10 Q. Did you have -- when you made statements on
11 behalf of --
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. -- Michael Jackson and other people --
14 A. Yeah.
15 Q. -- did you have a sense of what it was that
16 Michael Jackson did on behalf of Gavin Arvizo?
17 A. I’m not still clear. I’m sorry.
18 Q. Were you encouraged to say good things about
19 Michael Jackson?
20 A. Yeah. The people ask me, “Hey,” you know,
21 “Can you say that?” And I say, “Yeah.” I believed
22 it. I said it, yeah.
23 Q. Did you believe the reason for your presence
24 on that video was to say something about Martin
26 A. Yes, that’s what I believed.
27 Q. At some point in time did you get a phone
28 call from Janet Arvizo calling from Neverland? 4041
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Did she sound upset to you?
3 A. Uh --
4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
5 THE COURT: Overruled.
6 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Did she sound upset to you?
7 MR. MESEREAU: And leading.
8 THE COURT: Overruled.
9 You may answer “yes” or “no.”
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. What did she tell
13 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
14 MR. ZONEN: State of mind and spontaneous
15 declaration and excitable utterance, the last being
16 the exception to the hearsay.
17 MR. MESEREAU: No foundation for that
19 THE WITNESS: What do I do?
20 THE COURT: That’s true for the spontaneous
21 declaration and the excitable utterance. There is
22 no foundation. The state of mind, I think that
23 would depend on a further foundation also, so I’ll
24 sustain the foundation objection.
25 MR. ZONEN: All right.
26 Q. You said she was upset. Describe that to
27 me. You’ve had other conversations with her prior
28 to that. 4042
1 A. I had many conversations with her. She was
2 kind of like in a state of, you know, like crying,
3 “Oh, my God.” You know, her voice, you could see
4 like -- “Oh, my God, they hold” -- “They are holding
5 me here.”
6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Objection.
7 Hearsay; move to strike.
8 THE COURT: The -- I’ll strike that.
9 The foundation I was looking for was time
10 frame foundation, because her state of mind is only
11 relevant at a certain time, so I think you missed --
12 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: Can you tell us approximately
13 when that call was taking place? If you can’t tell
14 us a date, then in comparison to other events.
15 A. It was -- in my recollection, it was
16 sometime later after Martin Bashir type of stuff.
17 Q. Can you tell us approximately how long after
18 Martin Bashir?
19 A. I have no idea.
20 Q. I mean, would it be measured in weeks or
21 measured in months?
22 A. Few weeks maybe.
23 Q. All right. All right. And then you
24 described her as crying; is that correct?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. All right. And you’ve heard her crying
28 A. Yes. 4043
1 Q. At the time she had that conversation with
2 you about her child being ill?
3 A. The time he was ill, a couple of different
4 times I heard her crying. It was in the hospital I
5 saw her crying, and her voice.
6 Q. And describe her emotional state as you
7 talked to her on that telephone call after the
8 Martin Bashir screening. Describe her emotional
9 state in comparison to those other occasions.
10 A. She was upset. She was crying, the same way
11 was before. Her voice was the same as like her
12 child was sick.
13 Q. And what did she tell you?
14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
15 THE COURT: I’m going to admit this for the
16 state of mind only.
17 MR. ZONEN: Thank you.
18 Q. What did she tell you?
19 THE COURT: That means that it’s not -- I’m
20 going to let you answer in a minute.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 THE COURT: (To the jury) That means that
23 I’ve limited the use of this testimony not for the
24 truth of the matter asserted, not for the truth of
25 the matter of what she says, but to show her frame
26 of mind.
27 All right. You may answer the question. Do
28 you want it reread? 4044
1 THE WITNESS: Please.
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 (Record read.)
4 THE WITNESS: I mean, depends what
5 conversation. I mean, now I have several
7 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: This first one.
8 A. Oh, God, I don’t know which one was first.
9 Q. As best you can recall.
10 A. Which one was first, which one was second.
11 Four, five years ago. I have no idea. But I could
12 say what conversation I had. I don’t know which one
13 was what.
14 Q. The one that you most remember where she was
15 crying. That one.
16 A. She was -- that one was from Neverland. She
17 said, “They are holding me here with my kid against
18 my will. I need to get out of here. Please do
20 I said, “Why don’t you call the police?” We
21 talked about all kind of stuff like that.
22 You want to --
23 THE COURT: Hold it. Hold it. Next
25 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. Did you make an
26 effort to introduce her to a lawyer?
27 A. Yes, I did.
28 Q. And who was the lawyer that you introduced 4045
1 her to?
2 A. Bill Dickerman.
3 Q. All right. Do you remember what that was?
4 A. It was after the Martin Bashir taping was
5 going on. The people, they were calling Gavin all
6 kind of bad names. And I took her to -- and the kid
7 to -- to Bill Dickerman to stop, if they can stop.
8 ABC was running it. VH-1 was showing his picture,
9 MTV. All of them. The way I understood, everybody
10 was showing his picture. And the people, they
11 recognize him, and they would call him bad names.
12 And he was really upset. And we were going
13 to try to see if -- if Bill Dickerman could write a
14 letter to those people, tell them stop using the
15 tape of -- showing his face.
16 Q. All right. Were you the one, then, who took
17 her to Bill Dickerman?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. And was the purpose for that to get her
20 child off television?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Was there any other reason that you took her
23 to Bill Dickerman?
24 A. No, that was the reason we took her, because
25 didn’t want to be -- her child be called “fag,” or
26 whatever was calling.
27 Q. Were you present during any of those
28 conversations? 4046
1 A. I --
2 Q. By “those conversations,” I mean between
3 Janet Arvizo and Bill Dickerman, Attorney Dickerman.
4 A. Yes, I was, on four occasion. I remember
5 four occasion I remember I was present.
6 Q. Okay. And did you participate in the
8 A. First one, participate.
9 Q. I’m not asking you the content. I’m just
10 asking if you were actually contributing in some
11 fashion to these conversations.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. What -- where did the
14 conversations take place? Were they at multiple
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. What were the multiple locations?
18 A. One time was in my office. No, no, it was
19 in the Bill Dickerman -- I took them Bill Dickerman
20 office. And it was in Bill Dickerman office. They
21 talk to the -- to Bill Dickerman.
22 And second time it was in my club. And I
23 believe third time it was in my club.
24 Fourth time it was -- I was present with
25 Bill Dickerman. We took them to -- we took -- we
26 took the kids and the mother, they were going with
27 Jay, they were going to play baseball, and we took
28 them to baseball, and I was going watch the kids to 4047
1 play baseball. So those four times I was present.
2 Q. All right. There was one meeting at The
3 Laugh Factory; is that right?
4 A. Two meetings at Laugh Factory, sir.
5 Q. Do you know if Janet was accompanied by
6 anybody from Neverland?
7 A. I understood that’s what she told me. I was
8 inside the club. She said we -- came in, and she --
9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.
10 THE COURT: Sustained.
11 Q. BY MR. ZONEN: All right. Did you ever
12 offer money to Janet Arvizo?
13 A. Did I ever offer money to Janet Arvizo?
14 Q. Uh-huh.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Did you ever tell her that there was
17 somebody prepared to give her a substantial amount
18 of money?
19 A. Yes, I know where you’re going now. Yes.
20 Q. You’re troubled by something, are you not?
21 A. Yes. Yeah.
22 Q. The person --
23 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading; move to
24 strike the comments.
25 THE COURT: Sustained; stricken.
26 MR. ZONEN: All right.
27 Q. The person -- there is a person who was --
28 let me back off a little bit. 4048