Michael Jackson Fan Appreciation
Michael Jackson Fan Appreciation
Michael Jackson Fan Appreciation
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


Heal The World
 
HomePortalLatest imagesSearchRegisterLog in

 

 March 7, 2005

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Admin
Admin



Posts : 6397
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-12-27

March 7, 2005 Empty
PostSubject: March 7, 2005   March 7, 2005 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 10:26 am

March 7, 2005 01-1

March 7, 2005 04-1

March 7, 2005 05-2

March 7, 2005 12-1

March 7, 2005 15-2




1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA

3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION

4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE

5

6

7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )

8 CALIFORNIA, )

9 Plaintiff, )

10 -vs- ) No. 1133603

11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )

12 Defendant. )

13

14

15

16 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

17

18 MONDAY, MARCH 7, 2005

19

20 8:30 A.M.

21

22 (PAGES 960 THROUGH 996)

23

24

25

26

27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

28 BY: Official Court Reporter 960







1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

2

3

For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,

4 District Attorney -and-

5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney

6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,

7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street

8 Santa Barbara, California 93101

9

10

11

12 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.

13 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.

14 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067

15

16 -and-

17 SANGER & SWYSEN

18 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. East Carrillo Street, Suite C

19 Santa Barbara, California 93101

20 -and-

21

22 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.

23 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670

24

25

26

27

28 961






1 I N D E X

2

3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as “SN” on index.

4 Mr. Zonen is listed as “Z” on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as “A” on index.

5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as “M” on index. Ms. Yu is listed as “Y” on index.

6 Mr. Sanger is listed as “SA” on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as “O” on index.

7

8

9 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

10

11 ARVIZO, Davellin 964-M (cont’d)

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28 962






1 E X H I B I T S

2

3 FOR IN DEFENDANT’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.

4

5 5000 Brad Miller DVD 983 985 (Remarked)

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28 963






1 Santa Maria, California

2 Monday, March 7, 2005

3 8:30 a.m.

4

5 THE COURT: Good morning.

6 THE JURY: (In unison) Good morning.

7 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

9 Should I check this, double-check this.

10 Hello.

11 THE JURY: Hello.

12 MR. MESEREAU: All right.

13

14 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued)

15 Q. Miss Arvizo, you testified last week that

16 you recall a trip from Neverland with Michael

17 Jackson to a store named Toys R Us; do you remember

18 that.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And you testified that Mr. Jackson took you

21 and your brothers and some fans to Toys R Us, right.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Do you know approximately when that was.

24 A. I don’t remember when.

25 Q. And you did say that on the way Mr. Jackson

26 saw some fans and picked them up, and you all went

27 to Toys R Us together, right.

28 A. Yes. 964






1 Q. And Mr. Jackson paid for toys for everybody,

2 correct.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Do you recall anybody ever complaining that

5 they were being falsely imprisoned at Toys R Us.

6 A. No.

7 Q. Do you recall anybody complaining that they

8 were there against their will, at Toys R Us.

9 A. No.

10 Q. Now, do you know what a sworn deposition is

11 in a civil case.

12 A. Kind of. Not really.

13 Q. Has anyone ever told you that a sworn

14 deposition is a procedure in a civil case where

15 somebody sits down and answers questions under oath.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And who told you that.

18 A. Well, I was sitting in the one that Gavin

19 took during the J.C. Penney’s case.

20 Q. And you were also sitting in the one that

21 Star gave in the J.C. Penney case, correct.

22 A. I don’t remember that. I was just sitting

23 with Gavin.

24 Q. Well, didn’t you tell the jury last week

25 that you know nothing about the J.C. Penney case.

26 A. I just remembered right now when you said

27 “deposition.”

28 Q. So you sat there in Gavin’s deposition in 965







1 the J.C. Penney case, correct.

2 A. Because he wanted me to be next to him, and

3 I held his hand.

4 Q. And your mother was there too, correct.

5 A. I don’t remember her sitting there.

6 Q. You also sat in Star’s deposition, true.

7 A. I don’t remember sitting in Star’s.

8 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just

9 show you the page of the deposition transcript that

10 lists you as attending.

11 A. (Nods head up and down.)

12 Q. Could I show it to you.

13 A. That’s fine. I just didn’t remember. All I

14 remember is really sitting with Gavin.

15 Q. Okay.

16 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.

17 THE COURT: Yes.

18 THE WITNESS: Okay.

19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to

20 look at that page.

21 A. No, that was the first time.

22 Q. Well, does it refresh your recollection that

23 you were present for Star’s deposition as well.

24 A. All I remember is the taping of Gavin’s.

25 I don’t remember Star’s.

26 Q. Okay. What -- my point is this: When you

27 told the jury last week you didn’t know anything

28 about the J.C. Penney case, that wasn’t correct, 966






1 right.

2 A. Well, when you said “deposition,” it

3 refreshed my memory. That was a long time ago. I

4 was, like, 11.

5 Q. Okay. Now, you also told the jury last week

6 you have no knowledge of Gavin having disciplinary

7 problems at school before he ever met Mr. Jackson,

8 right.

9 A. I know he talks a lot, yes.

10 Q. Well, that’s what you said, the only problem

11 you were aware of is that he was talkative, correct.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You also said to -- you were asked by me,

14 “To your knowledge, was he ever asked to leave

15 school,” and you said you don’t know, right.

16 A. I don’t -- no, I don’t remember.

17 Q. Well, you sat there in Gavin’s deposition in

18 the J.C. Penney case where he admitted that he got

19 in lots of fights and got thrown out of school,

20 right. You were sitting right there, right.

21 A. He’s never been thrown out of school.

22 Q. You heard him say it under oath, didn’t you.

23 A. I don’t remember. It was a long time ago.

24 All I remember, I was in my grandmother’s house, and

25 I was holding his hand, and they were taping the

26 deposition. That’s all I remember.

27 Q. Do you remember at the deposition Gavin was

28 asked, “Have you ever had problems at school where 967






1 you got into a lot of fights.” And he said, “Yes”.

2 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as asked

3 and answered.

4 THE COURT: Sustained.

5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember Gavin

6 saying he was thrown out of school for fighting.

7 MR. SNEDDON: Object; asked and answered.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling the jury

10 you never heard Gavin ever make a statement like

11 that at any time.

12 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to

13 object as asked and answered, and ask the Court to

14 admonish counsel. He knows better than this.

15 MR. MESEREAU: I object, Your Honor, to the

16 colloquy.

17 MR. SNEDDON: I have a right to make a

18 record. And I -- I’m asking the Court -- this is

19 the third objection in a row that’s been asked and

20 answered.

21 THE COURT: Sustained. You may sit down.

22 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.

23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling the jury

24 today, under oath, that you have no knowledge of

25 Gavin ever being asked to leave school before he met

26 Mr. Jackson.

27 MR. SNEDDON: Object as asked and answered.

28 THE COURT: Overruled. 968






1 THE WITNESS: All I know is that he was very

2 talkative. I don’t remember. I’m not involved in

3 that.

4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: I’m sorry, excuse me. I

5 interrupted.

6 A. I’m not involved in that. My mom is.

7 Q. Have you ever discussed with Gavin his being

8 thrown out of school for fighting.

9 A. All I know is he would get in trouble, so I

10 would tell him, “Just be quiet, Gavin. You don’t

11 need to talk back.” That’s all I remember.

12 Q. Have you ever discussed with Gavin his

13 problems with fights in school before he met Mr.

14 Jackson.

15 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as asked

16 and answered.

17 THE COURT: Overruled.

18 THE WITNESS: I don’t know. I don’t

19 remember.

20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Do you remember,

21 I asked you last week if you had ever discussed the

22 J.C. Penney case with Gavin or your mom. Remember,

23 I asked you that question.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. You said you had not discussed it with

26 either of them, right.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. How could that be, if you attended those 969







1 depositions.

2 A. I’m not talking to them about it.

3 Q. Before.

4 A. No. I haven’t talked to them about it at

5 all. I’m just sitting there. I don’t know anything

6 about the case. I was just sitting there to comfort

7 my brother. He wanted me to be with him. I’m not

8 even paying attention to what he’s saying. I’m just

9 paying attention to how he’s looking. And that was

10 during his chemo.

11 Q. So you had never discussed the J.C. Penney

12 case with him before you attended his deposition.

13 A. No.

14 Q. And you never discussed the J.C. Penney case

15 with any of your family members before you attended

16 Star’s deposition.

17 A. Never.

18 Q. You never discussed the J.C. Penney case

19 with Gavin or your mom or Star after Gavin’s

20 deposition.

21 A. Never.

22 Q. And you never discussed the J.C. Penney case

23 with Star, your mom or Gavin after Star’s

24 deposition.

25 A. Never.

26 Q. You just kind of got there, silently

27 listened, left, and never talked to anybody about

28 it, right. 970






1 A. No.

2 Q. Okay. Now, you testified last week about

3 seeing Mr. Jackson and your brothers go into the

4 wine cellar, correct.

5 A. I saw somebody going downstairs. And then

6 when I was already in the wine cellar, I knew who it

7 was.

8 Q. Was that the only time you ever saw anybody

9 go into the wine cellar.

10 A. I saw several times people go down, but I

11 never really went. I always saw, like, open --

12 people going down, but I never really followed. It

13 was just that one time.

14 Q. Just the one time.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And you described the --

17 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. Mr. Jackson

18 needs to go to the rest room. We’ll take a break.

19 MR. OXMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.

20 (Recess taken.)

21 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, would it be useful

22 to take care of a stipulation on a technical matter

23 while Mr. Jackson’s --

24 THE COURT: I think we need to wait till he

25 comes back.

26 MR. SANGER: Okay. Very well.

27 MR. MESEREAU: May I see Mr. Jackson, Your

28 Honor. 971







1 (Brief interruption.)

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you recall, Miss

3 Arvizo, giving the Santa Barbara Sheriffs a detailed

4 description of the wine cellar at Neverland.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And what did you tell them.

7 A. I told them that I walked down the stairs,

8 and then you make a right, and there’s a room and it

9 has sleeping bags. And then there’s another room,

10 and it’s a way smaller room. And on the left-hand

11 side, there’s wine bottles on the wall. And then

12 there’s a -- I think there’s a counter in the room,

13 too, and cupboards.

14 Q. Did you tell them anything about sleeping

15 bags.

16 A. Yeah.

17 Q. What did you tell them.

18 A. That after you walk down the stairs and you

19 make a right into the room, and I think there’s

20 sleeping bags on the wall. I don’t remember.

21 Q. You told them about cubbyholes with sleeping

22 bags, correct.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Now, you’re telling the jury today that

25 you’ve only been down there one time, correct.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. The truth is, you’ve been down there many

28 times with your brothers without Mr. Jackson, true. 972






1 A. No.

2 Q. Do you recall being interviewed by the Santa

3 Barbara Sheriffs on August 13th, 2003, or

4 approximately that time.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you remember, you were asked when you

7 observed the wine cellar, and you said “many times”

8 during your visits to Neverland.

9 A. Well, many times I’ve seen it. But I never

10 went down there many times.

11 Q. How can you see it if you don’t go down the

12 stairs into the wine cellar.

13 A. Maybe I misunderstood the questions. But I

14 only remember going down there once and seeing it.

15 Q. Are you saying you never told the Santa

16 Barbara Sheriffs you’d been down there many times.

17 A. I don’t remember. All I remember is being

18 down there once and being able to see everything.

19 I don’t --

20 Q. Did you ever learn that your brothers had

21 been caught down there without Mr. Jackson, having

22 broken into the cellar and drinking.

23 A. I don’t remember that.

24 MR. SNEDDON: Object. It also -- excuse me.

25 Calls for -- assumes facts not in evidence.

26 THE COURT: Sustained.

27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you’re aware that

28 alcohol is kept in the kitchen area, correct. 973






1 A. I don’t know.

2 Q. Did you ever tell the police there’s a

3 glass-like closure on a refrigerator that has

4 alcoholic beverages in the kitchen area.

5 A. I know behind, like, a glass cupboard

6 there’s some -- I don’t know.

7 Q. Did you ever see any alcoholic beverages in

8 that refrigerator area.

9 A. I don’t know. I don’t remember.

10 Q. Well, you’ve been in that area many times,

11 correct, with your brothers, right.

12 A. When I would go to eat myself, yes.

13 Q. And typically when would you go to eat by

14 yourself.

15 A. In the afternoon.

16 Q. And when you went by yourself, were you

17 easily able to get in the main house.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. How did you get in the main house.

20 A. I would either ring for somebody to come, or

21 if I remembered the code to get into the main house.

22 Q. And how did you get the code.

23 A. One of the security guards gave it to me.

24 Q. And did you have any other codes.

25 A. No. That was the only one I had.

26 Q. Your brothers had codes, didn’t they.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. They had codes to the wine cellar, didn’t 974






1 they.

2 A. I don’t remember that.

3 Q. They had codes to Mr. Jackson’s room, didn’t

4 they.

5 A. I didn’t know they had that one.

6 Q. And they went up to the room without Mr.

7 Jackson present, correct.

8 A. Anytime Mr. Jackson wasn’t on the ranch,

9 they were with me.

10 Q. That’s not what you said last week, is it.

11 Last week you said that when your brothers were on

12 the ranch, they always left you alone, correct.

13 A. No. When Mr. Jackson wasn’t on the ranch,

14 they were with me.

15 Q. Well, you had knowledge that your brothers

16 were going into the main house when Mr. Jackson

17 wasn’t even there, correct.

18 A. When Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, they were

19 with me. There was no reason for us to be apart if

20 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.

21 Q. Well, you -- correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t

22 you tell the jury last week, “When I would visit

23 Neverland, my brothers would go off and, for the

24 most part, leave me alone”. Did you say that.

25 A. If Mr. Jackson was there, yes, I said that

26 last week.

27 Q. So you’re -- now you’re saying whenever

28 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, all three of you hung 975






1 around together; is that right.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did you go into the main house together when

4 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.

5 A. Yes. To go eat and watch T.V., yeah.

6 Q. And how many times do you think you did that

7 when Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.

8 A. I don’t know.

9 Q. Many times, correct.

10 A. Well, they’re growing boys. They wanted to

11 eat a lot, I guess.

12 Q. And you visited Neverland many occasions

13 when Mr. Jackson wasn’t even there, right.

14 A. No. Not me.

15 Q. Well, you went there a couple of times with

16 Chris Tucker, did you not.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Mr. Jackson wasn’t there during those

19 visits, right.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And did you go into the main house with

22 Chris Tucker.

23 A. Well, with -- with Chris Tucker, who was

24 there, and with my brothers, yes.

25 Q. And would you simply grab food when you

26 wanted it.

27 A. Whatever was on the -- where the drinks

28 were. I wouldn’t go into the kitchen. 976







1 Q. Well, if you go in the main house, you walk

2 into a lobby area, correct.

3 A. When you go into the -- through the back

4 way, there’s glass refrigerators, and I would grab a

5 drink from there. But I wouldn’t go into the

6 kitchen area and grab stuff.

7 Q. Well, you have to go into the kitchen area

8 to grab food, don’t you.

9 A. To sit down, and they make it for you.

10 Q. But to go in on your own and to pick up food

11 in the kitchen area, you have to go into the

12 kitchen, correct.

13 A. Yeah, but I’m not going in there where the

14 refrigerators are and stuff.

15 Q. If you’re in the kitchen area, you have to

16 be near the refrigerators, don’t you.

17 A. But I’m sitting down. I’m not making it for

18 myself or going through things.

19 Q. But if -- you’re talking about sitting down

20 at the counter area. Is that what you’re talking

21 about.

22 A. Like the bench area, yes.

23 Q. And Mr. Jackson has buns and rolls and

24 things available right where you sit down, correct.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And right to your left is the refrigerator

27 area, true.

28 A. Towards the back area and to the left, yes. 977






1 Q. And there’s sliding doors, right.

2 A. They’re -- no, they’re pulling doors.

3 Q. How do you know they’re pulling doors.

4 A. Because I would open them and get a drink

5 once in a while.

6 Q. And your brothers would also, correct.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And you will find alcohol in those

9 refrigerator areas, correct.

10 A. All I remember is there was Yoohoos, juice,

11 different waters. I don’t remember seeing alcohol.

12 Q. But clearly your brothers would go into that

13 refrigerator area when Mr. Jackson wasn’t around,

14 right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. They would go into the kitchen when Mr.

17 Jackson wasn’t around, right.

18 A. To get something, yes.

19 Q. And they would walk through the house when

20 Mr. Jackson wasn’t around, correct.

21 A. We wouldn’t really go into the main house,

22 because there wasn’t really anything else to do but

23 eat.

24 Q. Well, you have all kinds of rooms with toys,

25 games, all kinds of things in that main house, don’t

26 you.

27 A. But I’m not really interested in those kind

28 of little toys. 978






1 Q. Well, they’re not all little toys, now, are

2 they.

3 A. Mainly from what I remember, yes.

4 Q. Your brothers were caught on numerous

5 occasions in that house with Mr. Jackson absent,

6 right.

7 A. To go get something to eat, that’s all I

8 remember.

9 Q. Well, you described in detail to the

10 sheriffs what you saw in Mr. Jackson’s room,

11 correct.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You described in detail that there was a

14 lower level, a stairway, and a higher level,

15 correct.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You told the sheriffs in detail what you saw

18 on those various levels, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. That’s because you were in there on numerous

21 occasions, correct.

22 A. No.

23 Q. And you know that your brothers had that

24 code to get in there when Mr. Jackson wasn’t around,

25 didn’t they.

26 A. Yeah, but the outer door, that’s locked too.

27 Q. But they seemed to get into that also,

28 didn’t they. 979








1 A. Not that I remember, no.

2 Q. Well, you gave the Santa Barbara Sheriffs a

3 detailed description of Mr. Jackson’s bathroom,

4 right.

5 A. The one that’s inside the room, yes.

6 Q. Well, you had spent time in there, correct.

7 A. No. I never went to the rest room in there.

8 Q. How could you give a detailed description of

9 the rest room if you haven’t spent time looking at

10 what’s in there.

11 A. Because I was in the room the one time, and

12 I was just looking around. I had never been in

13 there. I wanted to see. And you just -- you can

14 look in and see what’s in there.

15 Q. When your brothers and you were at Neverland

16 without Mr. Jackson, did you go into the theater.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What did you do in the theater with your

19 brothers when Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.

20 A. Watch movies, get little snacks.

21 Q. What are the kinds of movies you used to

22 watch.

23 A. I don’t remember.

24 Q. Okay. How did you get the movies.

25 A. We would ask somebody from the front. I

26 don’t remember.

27 Q. Okay. But you had access to the theater

28 when you wanted, right. 980






1 A. Yes. It was open.

2 Q. No one ever told you you couldn’t enter the

3 theater and watch a film, right.

4 A. Not that I remember, no.

5 Q. Nobody ever told you you couldn’t have food

6 in the theater, popcorn, ice cream, sodas, whatever

7 you wanted, right.

8 A. Not that I remember, no.

9 Q. And you indicated that one particular -- you

10 first met Mr. Jackson approximately in the year

11 2000, right.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You indicated that you didn’t come back, you

14 don’t think, in the year 2001, right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. You started to come back in 2002,

17 right.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. When did Chris Tucker first take you to

20 Neverland, if you know.

21 A. In 2001. Because we didn’t meet him until

22 2001.

23 Q. And you indicated that at one point Mr.

24 Jackson had given your family a vehicle, right.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Were you ever in any discussions with Aja

27 Tucker about getting another vehicle from Chris

28 Tucker. 981






1 A. I know -- because we didn’t have no car at

2 that time. And Chris had told me, “I’m giving you

3 guys a Christmas present, and it’s Aja’s old car.”

4 Q. And you gave Aja and Chris your mother’s

5 driver’s license information, correct.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. You gave it to them so the car could be

8 transferred into your mother’s name, right.

9 A. Yeah, they wanted it so they could put it in

10 my mom’s name.

11 Q. You never told them that Michael Jackson had

12 given your car a family as well.

13 A. Well, we didn’t have that car at that time.

14 We had no car at that time.

15 Q. When did you first get a car from Mr.

16 Jackson.

17 A. When Gavin was -- during his chemotherapy.

18 It was for Gavin.

19 Q. And didn’t you tell the jury last week that

20 you never asked Chris Tucker for any assistance.

21 A. We didn’t ask him for it. He said, “I want

22 to give this to you guys for a Christmas present.”

23 Q. So you then got the driver’s license info

24 from your mother and sent it to Chris.

25 A. No, I gave it to Aja.

26 Q. Did you ever get that car.

27 A. No.

28 Q. What happened. 982






1 A. I don’t know. It just -- we didn’t get it

2 after all, because of -- the communication broke off

3 because of this.

4 Q. Okay. So in your mind, but for this

5 investigation, you would have gotten a second car

6 from Aja, correct.

7 A. We’ve only -- we didn’t have a car at that

8 time, so it wouldn’t have been a second car.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. We were driving the bus. We were in the

11 bus.

12 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, at this time I’d

13 like to, with the Court’s permission, play the Brad

14 Miller interview tape for the jury.

15 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, let me address a

16 technical matter on that, if I may.

17 THE COURT: Yes.

18 MR. SANGER: I’ve talked with Mr. Sneddon,

19 and this is acceptable. We’re not quite sure what

20 all the technical problems were, so we got a new

21 disk that was made directly from the original, and

22 it is not the one that’s marked 5000.

23 And what we would ask to do - it’s in the

24 machine right now - after we play it, we’d ask that

25 the new disk be marked as 5000, and this --

26 THE BAILIFF: You need to speak into the

27 microphone.

28 MR. SANGER: And this old disk is -- the one 983






1 that was marked just be given back to us, if that’s

2 all right.

3 THE COURT: In other words, you want to

4 exchange the new disk for the old disk and keep the

5 same number.

6 MR. SANGER: That’s correct.

7 THE COURT: Is that agreeable, Mr. Sneddon.

8 MR. SNEDDON: It is, Your Honor.

9 THE COURT: All right. I’ll approve that.

10 THE BAILIFF: Are you playing off the DVD.

11 MR. SANGER: We’re going to play off the

12 DVD. And with the Court’s permission now, we will

13 play Exhibit 5000.

14 THE BAILIFF: Are you playing off the player

15 down there.

16 MR. SANGER: I’m playing off the player down

17 there.

18 THE BAILIFF: So you need to go to “Input

19 4,” and you need to push the DVD player.

20 MR. SANGER: Right. I think they had it all

21 set up.

22 THE COURT: And the screen doesn’t matter,

23 because it’s just an audiotape.

24 MR. SANGER: May I proceed, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: Yes.

26 (Whereupon, an audiotape, Defendant’s

27 Exhibit No. 5000, was played for the Court and

28 jury.) 984






1 THE COURT: Lorna, is that in evidence.

2 THE CLERK: No.

3 MR. MESEREAU: May I proceed, Your Honor.

4 THE COURT: Are you offering that in

5 evidence.

6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, we are.

7 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I have no

8 objection. With the Court’s permission, I would

9 like an opportunity to get a copy of that one. I

10 won’t say anything else. But just -- if the Court

11 would give me permission to get a copy.

12 THE COURT: You have permission.

13 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.

14 THE COURT: It’s admitted into evidence.

15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, you testified

16 last week that you didn’t know Mr. Miller worked for

17 Mr. Geragos, correct.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. He said that twice in this interview, true.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Have you ever discussed with your mother who

22 Mr. Brad Miller worked for.

23 A. Wasn’t really a subject.

24 Q. Well, have you ever discussed it with her.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Now, you know that your mother appeared for

27 a pre-trial hearing in this case a number of months

28 ago, right. 985






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And you knew the issue was whether or not

3 she knew Mr. Miller worked for Geragos, didn’t you.

4 A. No. All I knew is she came up here.

5 Q. You never discussed what she was coming up

6 here for with her.

7 A. No.

8 Q. And never discussed what she said.

9 A. No.

10 Q. Okay. Now, this interview that you just

11 heard took place on February 16th, 2003, right.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And you heard that date when Mr. Miller

14 began the interview, right.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. This was after your mother and Gavin had

17 sued J.C. Penney for false imprisonment and sexual

18 assault, true.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And this was after your mother had claimed

21 that security guards at J.C. Penney, in a public

22 parking lot, pulled her breasts out of her blouse

23 and falsely imprisoned her, right.

24 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I am going to

25 object. There’s no facts into evidence of this.

26 She said she didn’t know anything about the lawsuit.

27 Counsel is just doing this deliberately.

28 THE COURT: Sustained. 986






1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, this interview on

2 February 16th, 2003, was also after your mother had

3 called the police on David Arvizo, correct.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. It was after she had called the police on

6 David Arvizo and accused him of false imprisonment

7 and molestation, right.

8 A. After I had told her, yes.

9 Q. Okay. Approximately one week after this

10 interview, you and your mother went to another

11 attorney, correct.

12 A. I don’t remember.

13 Q. You went to someone named William Dickerman,

14 correct.

15 A. I don’t know William.

16 Q. Well, you met with him at The Laugh Factory,

17 right.

18 A. I know his name is Bill. I don’t know.

19 Q. And you and your mother met with him to try

20 and put together a lawsuit against Michael Jackson,

21 right.

22 A. I never met with him. I only met with him

23 that one time.

24 Q. What time was this.

25 A. A while ago.

26 Q. And approximately when; do you know.

27 A. No.

28 Q. Well, you testified last week that at some 987






1 point, Vinnie picked you and your mom up and drove

2 you to The Laugh Factory on Sunset, right.

3 A. All of us went. It was me, my brothers, and

4 my mom.

5 Q. You all went to The Laugh Factory on Sunset,

6 right.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And that was after your interview with the

9 three social workers, right.

10 A. I think so. I don’t remember -- no, it

11 wasn’t. Because after the interview with the three

12 ladies was when Aja took us up to Neverland.

13 Q. When did you go to The Laugh Factory on

14 Sunset with Vinnie.

15 A. I think it was during the time we were in

16 Calabasas. I don’t remember.

17 Q. You stopped at The Laugh Factory with

18 Vinnie, right.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And your mom got out to meet Jamie Masada

21 and a lawyer named Bill Dickerman, right.

22 A. I didn’t know who he was at that time.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. And, like, Gavin got off with her.

25 Q. So Gavin and your mom went to meet with the

26 attorney named Bill Dickerman in The Laugh Factory,

27 right.

28 A. All I knew is they were going to go see 988






1 Jamie. I met him when I went upstairs for a few --

2 couple of seconds. And I didn’t hear what they were

3 saying. I just said -- I gave my mom a message and

4 ran back downstairs.

5 Q. When you say you met him, do you mean you

6 met Attorney Bill Dickerman.

7 A. Yeah, I just saw him there. I didn’t

8 really --

9 Q. So your mom and Gavin were meeting with him,

10 right.

11 A. Jamie was there also, yes.

12 Q. And that’s after this interview with Brad

13 Miller on February 16th, 2003, right.

14 A. I don’t know.

15 Q. Okay. Did you ever meet with Attorney Bill

16 Dickerman after that day at The Laugh Factory.

17 A. A while after, yes.

18 Q. And how many times did you meet with

19 Attorney Bill Dickerman.

20 A. Once.

21 Q. Were you with your mother.

22 A. All of us were in the room.

23 Q. And do you mean Gavin as well.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And Star as well.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Okay. Is that the only meeting you recall

28 ever having with Attorney Bill Dickerman. 989






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Now, at some point, you went and met with an

3 attorney named Larry Feldman, right.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. That was after you first met Attorney Bill

6 Dickerman, correct.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And that was at an office in Beverly Hills,

9 right.

10 A. I don’t know where it’s at.

11 Q. Okay. You went with your mother, Gavin and

12 Star, right.

13 A. And Jamie was there. And so was Jay.

14 Q. Jay Jackson.

15 A. I think he went with us. I don’t remember.

16 But Jamie was.

17 Q. Now, at this recorded interview by Brad

18 Miller that we just heard of February 16th, 2003,

19 Major Jay Jackson is sitting there listening to it,

20 right.

21 A. He’s sitting there, yes.

22 Q. And it’s in his home, right.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And you’re saying that after this interview,

25 Jay Jackson went to a lawyer with the family.

26 A. I don’t remember when we went, but it wasn’t

27 during then.

28 Q. And the interview with the three social 990






1 workers was at Jay Jackson’s home also, right.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And was Jay Jackson there that day.

4 A. No, he wasn’t.

5 Q. How many times did you meet with Attorney

6 Larry Feldman.

7 A. Once.

8 Q. And at some point, he agreed to represent

9 the whole family, true.

10 A. I don’t know that.

11 Q. Well, you knew that he had sued Michael

12 Jackson in the early ‘90s, true.

13 A. I didn’t know who he was. I just --

14 Q. Never discussed it with your mom.

15 A. Never.

16 Q. All right. Will you agree that shortly

17 after this recorded interview of February 16th,

18 2003, your family began meeting with lawyers.

19 A. No. It wasn’t shortly after then, no.

20 Q. How long after it was it.

21 A. I don’t know. But it was way after.

22 Q. Way after. Like how long; do you think.

23 A. After March. I don’t know.

24 Q. Okay. But you met with Dickerman --

25 A. Once.

26 Q. -- on Sunset.

27 A. I didn’t meet with him. I just saw him

28 there. 991






1 Q. Okay. Okay. And you think that was after

2 you left the Calabasas Inn, right.

3 A. I’m not sure.

4 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, you’d agree that in this

5 recorded interview with Brad Miller, and in the

6 rebuttal videotape that was shown last week, and in

7 your interviews with the social workers, your mother

8 continually praised Michael Jackson as a father

9 figure, right.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And you continually praised Michael Jackson

12 as a father figure, right.

13 A. I was just really copying, because I didn’t

14 know what to say. I was just latching onto

15 something because David was never really a father.

16 So I was just latching on something to call a

17 father. I didn’t know what a father is.

18 Q. Did you ever discuss with your mother,

19 “We’re going to call Michael Jackson a father

20 figure”.

21 A. No.

22 Q. Never did.

23 A. No. It’s the boys that brought it up.

24 Q. Okay. Well, certainly your mother praises

25 him in all of these interviews as being a father to

26 her children, true.

27 A. I guess seeing the boys so excited, you

28 know, anything that makes us happy, she -- I don’t 992







1 know. She gets it from us.

2 Q. You were sitting in this interview when your

3 mother said, essentially, she liked the boys to be

4 with Michael Jackson at night because they’re safe,

5 right.

6 A. I think she was just talking about the times

7 that Gavin would go to Neverland with Gavin and we

8 don’t know what happened.

9 Q. But your mother was encouraging your

10 brothers to go into the main house and be with

11 Michael Jackson, right.

12 A. You would have to ask her that. But I

13 would -- she never encouraged it. It was the boys

14 wanted to be there.

15 Q. Well, doesn’t she say that in that recorded

16 interview.

17 A. If it makes him happy, she’s going to push

18 it. She loves for us to be happy. Anything that

19 makes us happy, she’s going to say, “Go ahead, go.”

20 Q. But isn’t it true that, as far as you know,

21 she pushed your brothers to be in the main house

22 with Michael Jackson shortly before she went to a

23 lawyer to try and develop a lawsuit against him,

24 right.

25 A. What are you asking me. Like --

26 Q. If you know an answer to what I just said.

27 Do you have any --

28 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as 993







1 argumentative.

2 THE COURT: She’s asked you to rephrase the

3 question.

4 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Okay.

5 Q. As far as you know, your mother was

6 encouraging your brothers to be in Michael Jackson’s

7 house at night shortly before she went to a lawyer

8 to try and develop a lawsuit against Michael

9 Jackson, right.

10 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that

11 question as argumentative and assumes facts not in

12 evidence. It’s also compound.

13 THE COURT: Sustained on compound.

14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You would agree, you heard

15 your mother on many occasions encourage your

16 brothers to go into the main house and spend time

17 with Michael Jackson in the evening, right.

18 A. She wouldn’t encourage them. She’d just see

19 them happy. She wouldn’t push them to go do it.

20 She just -- they would go.

21 Q. You heard your mother --

22 A. I heard it, but I’m telling you what I know.

23 Q. Okay. She would encourage your brothers to

24 spend time with Michael Jackson at night because she

25 wanted Michael to be the father figure in the

26 family, right.

27 A. She never encouraged it. It’s whatever the

28 boys want, whatever makes them happy, she’s going to 994






1 let them do.

2 Q. Now, you said in the interview with Brad

3 Miller, referring to Michael Jackson, “He’s a bigger

4 father to all of us. He’s given us safety. He’s

5 given us love. He’s given us everything we’ve ever

6 wanted. He’s been our father figure. He’s the only

7 thing we know to be a father.” You said that,

8 right.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And you meant it when you said it, didn’t

11 you.

12 A. At that point, I still liked Mr. Jackson.

13 And that was the point that David had left and --

14 I don’t know, I was just latching onto something,

15 because I don’t know what a description of a father

16 is. I had 16 years of just abuse. I don’t know

17 what it is. I just latched onto something.

18 Q. Do you want to take a minute.

19 A. I’m fine.

20 THE COURT: I think it’s time for the morning

21 break now.

22 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.

23 (Recess taken.)

24

25

26

27

28 995






1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE

2

3

4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE )

5 OF CALIFORNIA, )

6 Plaintiff, )

7 -vs- ) No. 1133603

8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )

9 Defendant. )

10

11

12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,

13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby

14 certify:

15 That the foregoing pages 964 through 995

16 contain a true and correct transcript of the

17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled

18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at

19 said proceedings on March 7, 2005, and thereafter

20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided

21 transcription under my direction.

22 DATED: Santa Maria, California,

23 March 7, 2005.

24

25

26

27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

28 996






1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA

3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION

4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE

5

6

7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )

8 CALIFORNIA, )

9 Plaintiff, )

10 -vs- ) No. 1133603

11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )

12 Defendant. )

13

14

15

16 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

17

18 MONDAY, MARCH 7, 2005

19

20 (PAGES 997 THROUGH 1184)

21

22

23

24

25

26

27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

28 BY: Official Court Reporter 997






1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

2

3

For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,

4 District Attorney

-and-

5 RONALD J. ZONEN,

Sr. Deputy District Attorney

6 -and-

GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,

7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney

1112 Santa Barbara Street

8 Santa Barbara, California 93101

9

10

11

12 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.

13 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.

14 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067

15

16 -and-

17 SANGER & SWYSEN

18 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C

19 Santa Barbara, California 93101

20 -and-

21

22 OXMAN and JAROSCAK

BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.

23 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard

Santa Fe Springs, California 90670

24

25

26

27

28 998





1 I N D E X

2

3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as “SN” on index.

4 Mr. Zonen is listed as “Z” on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as “A” on index.

5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as “M” on index. Ms. Yu is listed as “Y” on index.

6 Mr. Sanger is listed as “SA” on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as “O” on index.

7

8

9 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

10

11 ARVIZO, Star David 1013-S

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28 999






1 E X H I B I T S

2

3 FOR IN PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.

4

5 50 Photograph 1040 1042

6 52 Photograph 1040 1042

7 53 Photograph 1041 1042

8 54 Photograph 1041 1042

9 55 Photograph 1131 1134

10 58 Photograph 1131 1134

11 69 Photograph 1131 1134

12 71 Photograph 1132 1134

13 72 Photograph 1132 1134

14 74 Photograph 1132 1134

15 77 Photograph 1133 1134

16 78 Photograph 1133 1134

17 79 Photograph 1133 1134

18 86 Photograph 1154 1158

19 90 Photograph 1131 1134

20 91 Photograph 1130 1134

21 92 Photograph 1130 1134

22 93 Photograph 1130 1134

23 94 Photograph 1133 1134

24 95 Photograph 1134 1134

25 97 Photgraph 1133 1134

26 110 Photograph 1042 1042

27 111 Photograph 1042 1042

28 1000






1 E X H I B I T S (Continued)

2

3 FOR IN

4 PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.

5 153 Photograph 1161 1161

6 158 Photograph 1131 1134

7 165 Photograph 1132 1134

8 188 Photograph 1040 1042

9 193 Photograph 1118 1118

10 196 Photographi 1041 1042

11 341 Diagram of interior of private jet (Star Arvizo) 1082 1083

12 470 Clear plastic bag containing

13 briefcase 1151

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28 1001






1 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, in the Brad

3 Miller tape-recording that we just heard --

4 THE BAILIFF: Would you turn your microphone

5 on, please.

6 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, excuse me.

7 Let me start again.

8 Q. Ms. Arvizo, in the Brad Miller

9 tape-recording that we just heard, your mother talks

10 about the family being inundated with British, local

11 newspapers, national newspapers, magazines, T.V.

12 shows, Celebrity Justice, et cetera. Do you

13 remember that.

14 A. What’s the word “inundated”. What does that

15 mean.

16 Q. Pardon me.

17 A. What does “inundated” mean.

18 Q. I’m sorry. I should have chose a better

19 word.

20 Your mother says that different kinds of

21 media have attempted to contact her; do you recall

22 that.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And do you recall her being contacted by

25 Celebrity Justice.

26 A. The only one --

27 Q. Do you remember that.

28 A. The only one I remember is the one coming to 1002






1 the apartment.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. That’s all I remember.

4 Q. Okay. She says, “The children’s old school

5 and the children’s new school are being contacted by

6 media.” Did you know anything about that.

7 A. I don’t know.

8 Q. Okay. And if the school told that to your

9 mother, you weren’t involved, right.

10 A. All I remember is that one coming to the

11 apartment. I don’t remember any others.

12 Q. So she uses words, “It’s been swarmed.”

13 But you don’t know anything more than what you just

14 testified to, right.

15 A. Yeah.

16 Q. Okay. Now, your mother says, “We’ve been

17 rejected, neglected, spit on, fried, tried, burned,

18 abused, the doors shut in our face, opportunities

19 lost. And Michael said -- took us from way behind

20 in the line and pulled us up to the front and said,

21 ‘You matter to me. You may not matter to many

22 people, but you matter to me and that’s what’s

23 important.’”

24 Do you know what she was referring to when

25 she talked about your family being rejected,

26 neglected, spit on, fried, et cetera.

27 A. I don’t know. I guess emotions from David.

28 I don’t know. 1003






1 Q. Okay. You were present with your mom when

2 she reported David to the Los Angeles Police

3 Department, right.

4 A. Which time.

5 Q. Well, there was October -- excuse me,

6 October 1st, 2001, do you remember that.

7 A. The one that I asked her to call the police,

8 I was present for that one. But the one that -- the

9 first one, I don’t -- I wasn’t there.

10 Q. Were you present when your mother told the

11 Los Angeles Police Department that Michael Jackson,

12 Fritz Coleman and Kobe Bryant would assist her with

13 this incident.

14 A. I don’t remember that.

15 Q. Okay. Were you present with her on

16 October 4th, 2001, when she called the Los Angeles

17 Police Department about your father.

18 A. I don’t know the dates, but I was only

19 present after I told her what had happened with me

20 and my father. Then she called the police. The

21 other one -- any other incident I was not present.

22 Q. Were you present when she told the police

23 officer from Los Angeles that she wanted to show him

24 a videotape and numerous photos of she and her

25 children spending time with various celebrities.

26 A. I don’t remember that.

27 Q. Okay. Do you recall your mother said on the

28 Brad Miller interview that Michael Jackson prayed 1004






1 with the family.

2 A. Yes, I heard it.

3 Q. That happened one time in the theater,

4 didn’t it.

5 A. No.

6 Q. You don’t remember that.

7 A. No.

8 Q. Do you remember the family praying with

9 Michael Jackson.

10 A. Not really.

11 Q. Okay. Do you think maybe your mother and

12 Michael and the brothers did it without you.

13 A. I don’t believe so.

14 Q. Is that possible.

15 A. My mom prays like every couple of seconds,

16 like little prayers, so --

17 Q. Okay. Now, you discussed the Bashir tape

18 with Attorney Larry Feldman, didn’t you.

19 A. I don’t remember what we discussed.

20 Q. Well, didn’t your family approach him and

21 talk about the Bashir tape.

22 A. All I remember -- we had a meeting that day.

23 I don’t remember. It was too long ago.

24 Q. Did you ever drink alcohol on a plane where

25 Michael Jackson was present.

26 A. I didn’t drink alcohol on a plane.

27 Q. Thank you.

28 Do you recall meeting with a psychologist 1005






1 named Stan Katz.

2 A. I remember meeting Mr. Katz.

3 Q. And you were referred to him by Attorney

4 Larry Feldman, right.

5 A. All I know is we went that day.

6 Q. And to your knowledge, Mr. Katz has a

7 business relationship with Attorney Larry Feldman,

8 right.

9 A. I don’t know.

10 Q. Okay. One final question: Have you told

11 the truth throughout your testimony.

12 A. Yes.

13 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.

14 THE COURT: Mr. Sneddon.

15 MR. SNEDDON: Be right there, Your Honor.

16 Just wanted to make arrangements to have the

17 next witness brought down, Your Honor.

18

19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

20 BY MR. SNEDDON:

21 Q. All right. Miss Arvizo, first of all, I’d

22 like to direct your attention to the time that you

23 were in the car with Vinnie and your brother outside

24 The Laugh Factory. Okay.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. At some point in time you were given a

27 message by Vinnie and sent inside, correct.

28 A. Yes. 1006






1 Q. What was the message that he gave you to

2 give to your mother.

3 A. To tell my mom to hurry up, because we

4 needed to go.

5 Q. Is that what you did.

6 A. Yes, I went and got her. Or I went and told

7 her. She came out after me.

8 Q. After you gave the message, did you stick

9 around at all.

10 A. No, I went.

11 Q. Now, you told the jury that there was this

12 incident which led to your request to have your

13 mother call the police --

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. -- involving you and your father.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What happened.

18 A. It was before school. I was walking to

19 McDonald’s to go get something to eat. And my

20 father was parked in the parking lot at McDonald’s

21 across from my high school, and he started waving at

22 me, and to -- going like this, to “come here.” And

23 I just kept trying to go and I didn’t want to, but I

24 was too scared of him. And I walked over, and he

25 told me to get in the car.

26 Q. So did you do that.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. What happened when you got in the car. 1007






1 A. He locked the doors, and then he was just

2 telling me, “What are you guys doing.” And he just

3 started being mean to me. And I just, “Yes, Daddy.

4 Yes, Daddy. I’m sorry, I’m sorry.”

5 Q. Did you try to leave. Did you tell him you

6 wanted to leave.

7 A. I told him I had to leave. It was already,

8 like, during my first period. I had to leave. And

9 he just wouldn’t let me go. He said, “No, I need to

10 talk to you,” and he would grab my arm, and I didn’t

11 know -- I was just really scared. I didn’t -- I

12 didn’t know what to do.

13 Q. It’s okay. It’s okay.

14 During the time that you were in the car

15 with your father and he wouldn’t let you go, did he

16 ever molest you at that time.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Now, you’ve heard Mr. Mesereau use the word

19 “terrorist threats.” Do you remember him saying

20 that.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did you ever use those words to the police

23 officer.

24 A. No.

25 Q. Do you even know what that means.

26 A. All I know is the word “threats,” so I’m

27 just putting two and two together, like threatening

28 threats. I don’t know. 1008







1 Q. But you never used the word “terrorist”.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Now, you told the ladies and gentlemen of

4 the jury there was a time when you attempted to talk

5 to Carol Lamir about your father’s abusive behavior

6 towards the family.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Do you remember that.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And you indicated, I believe, that she

11 didn’t want to listen to it.

12 A. She didn’t want to listen to it. She always

13 seemed like she had kind of a -- I don’t know, a

14 crush on my father, because my father would go cook

15 for her and stuff.

16 Q. I just have a couple more questions.

17 Before your family went to Miami to be with

18 the defendant in this case, Mr. Jackson - okay. -

19 before that time, your brother Gavin had already

20 been in remission.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. For some time.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And did you ever hear your mother express

25 her belief as to who was responsible for that

26 remission.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Who. 1009








1 A. God. And only God.

2 Q. You never heard her mention Michael Jackson.

3 A. No.

4 Q. With regard to the -- going back to the

5 incident with your father in the car, okay.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. The one at school. I just -- my colleagues

8 want me to ask you a question, so I’ll do it.

9 A. Okay.

10 Q. You said that you didn’t know the word

11 “terrorist,” but you knew the word “threats”.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Did you -- in your conversations with police

14 officers in describing what happened, did you use

15 the word “threats”.

16 A. No, I just told them what he had told me.

17 Q. And what did he tell you.

18 A. That we better not say anything about what

19 happened, because he could have us killed.

20 Q. Do you know what the term “false

21 imprisonment” means.

22 A. Not really.

23 Q. Did you describe to the police officers what

24 happened.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And what words did you use to describe what

27 happened with regard to your ability to leave the

28 car. 1010






1 A. I told him he locked it, and that anytime I

2 really tried to leave, he would grab my arm and tell

3 me “No.”

4 Q. Now, lastly, with regard to the questions

5 that you were asked by Mr. Mesereau, and you were

6 candid with the jury and told them that there were

7 statements that you made to the social workers which

8 were not true, do you recall that.

9 A. Yes.

10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

11 MR. SNEDDON: Foundational, Your Honor.

12 THE COURT: Overruled.

13 You may -- go ahead.

14 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: With regard to those

15 particular questions that you answered to Mr.

16 Mesereau that you had lied, why did you lie.

17 A. I don’t know. I just -- I kind of still

18 liked Mr. Jackson, and I didn’t want him to get in

19 trouble. And I know I was scared because the

20 bodyguard was there before. And just mixed

21 feelings. I didn’t know, really. I was just....

22 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I have nothing

23 further, Your Honor. Thank you.

24 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau.

25 MR. MESEREAU: Just briefly.

26 //

27 //

28 // 1011








1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. MESEREAU:

3 Q. Ms. Arvizo, when the three social workers

4 came to Jay Jackson’s house and interviewed you,

5 they were asking you questions about your mother,

6 correct.

7 A. No.

8 Q. They were investigating whether your mother

9 was fit, true.

10 A. I really don’t remember what they were

11 investigating. I didn’t know what they were

12 investigating.

13 Q. Well, it wasn’t really just Mr. Jackson that

14 they were asking questions about, right.

15 A. I don’t remember.

16 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. No further questions,

17 Your Honor.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further, Your Honor.

19 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may

20 step down.

21 MR. SNEDDON: May I have just a moment, Your

22 Honor.

23 MR. MESEREAU: She’s subject to re-call,

24 Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: Yes, I didn’t excuse her.

26 MR. MESEREAU: Oh. Thank you.

27 MR. SNEDDON: Call Star Arvizo.

28 THE COURT: He called him. 1012






1 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Oh, he did.

2 THE BAILIFF: You need to adjust this to

3 your height.

4 THE COURT: Remain standing, please. Face

5 the clerk and raise your right hand.

6

7 STAR DAVID ARVIZO

8 Having been sworn, testified as follows:

9

10 THE WITNESS: I do.

11 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and

12 spell your name for the record.

13 THE WITNESS: My name is Star David Arvizo.

14 THE BAILIFF: Talk into the mike.

15 THE WITNESS: Oh, S-t-a-r, D-a-v-i-d,

16 A-r-v-i-z-o.

17 THE CLERK: Thank you.

18

19 DIRECT EXAMINATION

20 BY MR. SNEDDON:

21 Q. How old are you.

22 A. 14 years old.

23 Q. You nervous.

24 A. A little bit.

25 Q. What’s your birth date.

26 A. 12-11-90. December 11th.

27 Q. I’m sorry.

28 A. December 11th. 1013






1 Q. And what year in school are you right now.

2 A. Right now, in ninth grade.

3 Q. And do you have brothers and sisters.

4 A. Two -- oh, three, actually.

5 Q. All right. Why don’t you tell us their

6 names.

7 A. Jett Daniel Jackson. Davellin Arvizo. And

8 Gavin Anton Jackson, or Arvizo. God.

9 Q. Okay. And your mother’s name.

10 A. Janet Jackson.

11 Q. And the current husband of your mother.

12 A. Jay Daniel Jackson.

13 Q. And Mr. Jackson’s occupation.

14 A. Major -- he’s a United States Major in the

15 Army right now.

16 Q. And your grandparents, do you have

17 grandparents that are still alive --

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. -- on your mother’s side of the family.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What are your grandparents’ names.

22 A. Maria Ventura and Jesus David Ventura.

23 Q. And your grandfather, what does he go by.

24 A. He goes by David Ventura.

25 Q. Do you know where they live.

26 A. They live in El Monte.

27 Q. And how long have they lived in El Monte.

28 A. 34 years. 1014






1 Q. Long time.

2 A. A long time, yeah.

3 Q. All right. Let’s talk a little bit about

4 your school career.

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. Where did you start.

7 A. Start --

8 Q. What’s the name of the school.

9 A. In Maxson Elementary.

10 Q. How is that spelled.

11 A. M-a-x-s-o-n.

12 Q. And how long were you there.

13 A. Four years.

14 Q. What grades would that have been, then.

15 A. Kindergarten through third.

16 Q. And then for the fourth grade, where did you

17 go.

18 A. Nueva Vista Elementary.

19 Q. And do you recall what town that was in.

20 A. The City of Bell.

21 Q. How about Maxson. Where was Maxson, what

22 city.

23 A. It was located in El Monte.

24 Q. And then how long were you at Nueva Vista.

25 A. Four through five.

26 Q. And then in the sixth grade, where did you

27 go.

28 A. I went through -- I mean, I went to LeConte 1015






1 Middle School.

2 THE REPORTER: LeConte.

3 THE WITNESS: Yes.

4 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Can you spell that.

5 A. C-o-n-t-e.

6 Q. And it would be L-a.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Or LeConte.

9 A. Oh, LeConte. L-e-C-o-n-t-e.

10 Q. And where was that school located.

11 A. It was located in Hollywood.

12 Q. And where were you living at this point in

13 your life.

14 A. In East L.A.

15 Q. Do you remember the name of the street.

16 A. Soto. Soto near Cesar Chavez, I think.

17 Q. So how did you get from your Soto Street

18 address in East L.A. to Hollywood to go to school

19 each day.

20 A. There was a school bus that picks us up

21 on Cesar Chavez and takes us all the way to our

22 middle school and then continued on to Hollywood

23 High.

24 Q. How many years did you go there.

25 A. To LeConte.

26 Q. Yes.

27 A. One year.

28 Q. And after that, where did you go to school. 1016






1 A. To another -- well, in seventh grade, we

2 went to middle school that was near our Soto

3 address. And -- for about three weeks. And then my

4 mom decided to put us in a better school, in John

5 Burroughs Middle School.

6 Q. So what was the name of the first school.

7 A. Hollenbeck Middle School.

8 Q. And then you went to John Burroughs.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Was there a point in time -- where did you

11 go to the eighth grade.

12 A. I went to -- I went to John Burroughs for

13 seventh grade, through eighth. But then half of my

14 eighth grade, I continued on with independent

15 studies. Well, not after. A little bit towards the

16 end.

17 Q. What does “independent studies” mean.

18 A. It’s where you stay at home, and you get

19 your homework and everything. You go to a teacher

20 once a week, and he gives you your homework, and you

21 go home and do it.

22 Q. So you don’t really go to school.

23 A. No. No.

24 Q. But this year you’re in a regular school, a

25 freshman.

26 A. Yes. Yes.

27 Q. You’ve told the ladies and gentlemen of the

28 jury that you lived on Soto Street in East Los 1017






1 Angeles. Do you recall how long it was that you

2 remember living at Soto Street.

3 A. Probably about four years. I don’t remember

4 if it’s exact, but --

5 Q. Do you remember where you lived when you

6 were in kindergarten.

7 A. Well, actually, my parents and my brother

8 and my mom, they lived there for a year, because I

9 was living in my grandmother’s house, and I

10 continued going to Maxson Elementary.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. So it was probably -- yeah, it was probably

13 about four years. I don’t know. Probably four

14 years. Guessing.

15 Q. Describe to the ladies and gentlemen of the

16 jury this Soto Street address, as you recall it.

17 A. The address.

18 Q. Yeah. No, what was inside. What is the

19 room like.

20 A. It was really small. Probably -- it was a

21 bachelor apartment. It was really small.

22 Q. Did it have a separate bedroom.

23 A. Well, it was like a living room/bedroom.

24 Q. I’m sorry.

25 A. It was like a kitchen, like an area, and

26 then a little bathroom.

27 Q. So where did people sleep.

28 A. Big area. 1018





1 Q. All together.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. The whole family.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. How would you describe the -- just let us --

6 what was it like, the relationship between your

7 mother and your father during these times.

8 A. It wasn’t good.

9 Q. What do you mean by that.

10 A. Well, they’d always get in arguments, and it

11 would always lead to my father hitting my mom.

12 Q. Did he ever hit you.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Did you ever see him hit your brother and

15 sister.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Was there a point in time when your dad

18 left.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Do you remember when that was in terms of

21 what grade you were in.

22 A. I was in sixth grade, and it was in the

23 morning.

24 Q. Do you remember the incident.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Were you in school that day.

27 A. It was a weekend.

28 Q. And when your father left, did he ever come 1019






1 back.

2 A. No, I never saw him again.

3 Q. Okay. Let me talk to you a little bit about

4 some of the things that you’ve done.

5 Have you ever been to a place called The

6 Laugh Factory.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Do you recall what the first occasion was

9 when you went to The Laugh Factory.

10 A. It was for a comedy camp.

11 Q. And do you remember approximately when that

12 was.

13 A. The year.

14 Q. Or just put it -- the year, if you can

15 remember, or between what grades it was.

16 A. It was between third and fourth, probably.

17 Because it was right before my brother was -- had

18 cancer.

19 Q. And was this during the school year or at

20 some other time.

21 A. It was during the summer.

22 Q. And who went to the camp.

23 A. Me and my brother and my sister.

24 Q. And how long did it last.

25 A. I don’t remember how exact, but it lasted

26 for probably about a month.

27 Q. And did you meet any people at the camp that

28 you ended up having -- becoming friends of the 1020






1 family.

2 A. George Lopez. Louise.

3 Q. Do you know Louise’s last name.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. Jamie Masada. Can’t remember right now.

7 Q. Well, let me show you some photographs, if I

8 can. All right.

9 A. Okay.

10 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, you might have to

11 turn on the screen eventually. I just thought I’d

12 give you a heads up.

13 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me. Have I seen

14 those.

15 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, they’re in evidence, all

16 three of them. I’ll identify them for the record.

17 But if you want to look at them again -- I’m sorry.

18 I should have showed you now.

19 Q. Just look at those for a second. I’ve shown

20 you an exhibit that’s in evidence marked as People’s

21 28, People’s 13, and People’s 49 that are in

22 evidence. Okay. Just hold those there for a

23 second.

24 All right. Go ahead and put 28 up there.

25 I want you to look at People’s 28, Star.

26 Okay. Do you have that in front of you.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Do you recognize the person in that 1021






1 photograph.

2 A. Yes. It’s Jamie Masada.

3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, do you have it

4 on “Input 3”.

5 THE COURT: We have “1” or “4.”

6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, “Input 1.”

7 THE COURT: It was on “1.” The PC.

8 MR. SNEDDON: “No signal.”

9 THE BAILIFF: Did you push the other thing.

10 MR. SNEDDON: There we go.

11 Q. All right. Now, People’s 28 you identified

12 as whom, Star.

13 A. Jamie Masada.

14 Q. All right. Now, if you put that aside for

15 just a second and go to the one that’s marked as

16 People’s 13.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. Do you recognize the people depicted in that

19 photograph.

20 A. That’s my sister, me, my brother, and Fritz

21 Coleman.

22 Q. All right. You recognize the person named

23 Fritz Coleman.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Where did you meet him.

26 A. At The Laugh Factory.

27 Q. And what was he doing there.

28 A. He was helping out the kids with their 1022






1 comedy act.

2 Q. And the people in that photograph, do you

3 recognize those people.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. A little different than what you look like

6 now, huh.

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. All right. Put that aside, if you would.

9 And let’s look at the one that’s 49 that’s

10 in evidence, people’s 49, okay. Do you recognize

11 the people in that photograph.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Who are those.

14 A. It’s me, my brother, my sister, and Louise.

15 Q. Okay. Do you know Louise’s last name.

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did you guys have a nickname for her.

18 A. Yeah, we called her Weezie.

19 Q. Weezie.

20 A. Yeah.

21 MR. SNEDDON: (To the reporter) I’m sorry,

22 you’re on your own in trying to spell it.

23 Q. Okay. And do you recall when this

24 photograph was taken.

25 A. Oh. Yes.

26 Q. When was it taken.

27 A. It was during the comedy camp.

28 Q. During the summer you went to comedy camp. 1023






1 A. Yeah. Yes.

2 Q. All right. Thank you.

3 Your Honor, we can turn the lights back on.

4 Thanks.

5 Okay. Just take those and turn them over

6 and set them up there on the counter, if you would.

7 Thanks.

8 Now, at some point in time, did your brother

9 Gavin -- did you learn that your brother Gavin had

10 come down with cancer.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Do you remember in terms of what year you

13 were in school, or what was going on at that

14 particular time in your life that you remember that

15 happening.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. All right. Tell the jury.

18 A. I was in fourth grade. My brother was --

19 well, he was moved up to fifth grade. So -- and

20 then he was diagnosed with cancer, so he had to

21 leave school.

22 And I continued on going to school through

23 the fifth grade. And then he went into remission

24 during sixth grade, when he was able to come back

25 with me during sixth grade.

26 Q. So you were in the same grades then.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Now, do you remember in terms of about what 1024






1 time of the school year it was that Gavin learned

2 that he had cancer.

3 A. The year.

4 Q. What time of the school year. Like

5 beginning, end, middle.

6 A. Probably middle. Yeah.

7 Q. Do you recall.

8 A. Huh. No, I don’t recall. I don’t know

9 exactly.

10 Q. Tell us in terms of your -- at the time that

11 Gavin learned that he had cancer, where was he

12 living at that time.

13 A. We were still living in East L.A.

14 Q. And the name of the street.

15 A. Soto.

16 Q. Okay. And then when Gavin -- did Gavin at

17 some point begin to go to the hospital.

18 A. What.

19 Q. Did -- did Gavin ever have to go to the

20 hospital.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Because of the cancer.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Where was he living then.

25 A. Oh, he -- Louise gave my dad money so he

26 could fix, at my grandma’s house, a room for him.

27 Q. So he was at your grandma’s house.

28 A. Yes. 1025


Last edited by Admin on Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
https://mjfa.forumotion.com
Admin
Admin



Posts : 6397
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-12-27

March 7, 2005 Empty
PostSubject: Re: March 7, 2005   March 7, 2005 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 11:16 am

March 7, 2005 02-1

March 7, 2005 06-2

March 7, 2005 07-1

March 7, 2005 10-1

March 7, 2005 14-2



1 Q. And in what town was that.

2 A. El Monte.

3 Q. Okay. Were there times that he was in the

4 hospital.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Were you present at any times when the

7 defendant in this case, Michael Jackson, called your

8 brother.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. On how many occasions.

11 A. Twice.

12 Q. Where.

13 A. Well, two times that I know of, and -- in

14 the hospital room, and a couple times at my

15 grandma’s house in El Monte.

16 Q. So they were separate locations.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Now, at some point when your brother had

19 been diagnosed with cancer, were you -- did you and

20 your family go to Neverland Ranch.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Do you recall when it was the first time

23 that you went, like what time of the year it was.

24 A. Time of the year. What year it was.

25 Q. What time of the year. Were you in school.

26 Was it the summer.

27 A. I think we were during school.

28 Q. Was it the beginning of school or end of 1026




1 school; do you remember.

2 A. Middle of school.

3 Q. How old were you at this point.

4 A. Ten or 11. I was 11. I don’t remember.

5 Q. I’m sorry.

6 A. I don’t really remember how old I was.

7 Q. Do you remember what year it was that you

8 went.

9 A. No.

10 Q. Was it during the time that your brother had

11 cancer.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. All right. So what year was it your brother

14 got cancer.

15 A. 2000, 2001.

16 Q. So how old were you in 2000.

17 A. 12. Or 11. Oh, I was probably 11. It was

18 right before my birthday.

19 Q. I couldn’t hear what you said.

20 A. It was before my birthday.

21 Q. So it was before your birthday that year.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Who went to the ranch the first time.

24 A. My mom, my dad, me, my brother and my

25 sister.

26 Q. How did you get there.

27 A. Limousine.

28 Q. And do you remember about what time it was 1027




1 when you arrived at the ranch.

2 A. Daytime.

3 Q. What happened when you got there.

4 A. Got there; they had -- my mom and my dad

5 signed papers, and then we went into the ranch and

6 there’s cooks and, like, maids, people standing

7 outside the door.

8 Q. Okay. You need to talk into that microphone

9 so people can hear you. Okay.

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. Standing outside the door where. What door.

12 A. The front door.

13 Q. To what.

14 A. To the main house.

15 Q. All right. After you -- after you got

16 there, you were greeted by these folks. What

17 happened next. What was the next thing you recall

18 happening.

19 A. I remember just me and my brother and my dad

20 were in the kitchen -- well, yeah, in the kitchen.

21 Or near the kitchen. We weren’t inside the kitchen.

22 Q. All right. What were you doing in there.

23 A. We were waiting for Michael.

24 Q. And did Mr. Jackson come down at some point.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Do you recall when that was.

27 A. Uhh --

28 Q. How long had you been there before Mr. 1028







1 Jackson came down.

2 A. 30 minutes.

3 Q. Do you remember -- do you remember seeing

4 Mr. Jackson on that occasion.

5 A. After.

6 Q. No, when he came down. The first time you

7 ever met him. Was that the first time.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And what was he dressed like.

10 A. He had a red shirt on with black pants, and

11 tape over his nose.

12 Q. And what.

13 A. And tape over his nose.

14 Q. After this greeting, where did you guys go.

15 What did you do. Did you talk to Mr. Jackson for a

16 while.

17 A. He said we were going to drive some cars.

18 Q. Did you do that.

19 A. Yes. We drove some golf carts.

20 Q. And you say “we.” Who is “we”.

21 A. My brother and me.

22 Q. And who else.

23 A. Michael and Frank.

24 Q. Frank who.

25 A. Tyson.

26 Q. Had you ever met Mr. Tyson prior to that

27 time.

28 A. No. 1029







1 Q. So the four of you went somewhere on the

2 ranch; is that correct.

3 A. We went around the ranch.

4 Q. And what are these carts like that you

5 drove.

6 A. They’re like golf carts.

7 Q. And how many carts were being driven by the

8 four of you. Four carts.

9 A. No, it was two carts.

10 Q. Two carts.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who was in the carts, the two carts.

13 A. Me and Michael were in one car, and my

14 brother and Frank were in another car.

15 Q. So where did you go.

16 A. We went around the ranch.

17 Q. In the carts.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. How long were you out there.

20 A. 20 minutes. Ten minutes.

21 Q. Now, when you came back, do you recall what

22 happened, what you did after that; after you came

23 back from driving around with Mr. Jackson and

24 Mr. Tyson and your brother.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Where did you sleep that night.

27 A. In the guest units.

28 Q. And do you recall where your mother and 1030






1 father slept that night.

2 A. I think my sister and my mom slept together.

3 And my dad, me and my brother slept in another room.

4 Q. Do you remember how long you stayed there on

5 that first visit.

6 A. I think it was two days.

7 Q. Now, do you remember an incident occurring

8 between your mother and your father on this

9 particular visit.

10 A. Yeah, it was the next day.

11 Q. The next what.

12 A. It was the next day. Me and my brother were

13 trying to get up so we could go outside, and my dad

14 wouldn’t let us go outside because he wanted to

15 sleep in.

16 And so eventually, like about 12 o’clock, we

17 went outside and we got breakfast. And my brother

18 was like messing around on the ranch somewhere. And

19 I came back and went into my mom’s unit, and my dad

20 was sitting down in the chair. And he was yelling

21 at my mom, and she was trying to put on her makeup.

22 And he -- he got up and he grabbed the club soda

23 that was on the dresser and threw it at my mom’s

24 face.

25 Q. What did you do.

26 A. Tried to comfort her. I walked over and I

27 hugged her, and I said “I love you” to her. She

28 told me to go out and play. 1031






1 Q. She did what.

2 A. She told me to go outside and play.

3 Q. Did you do that.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. What did you do.

6 A. I don’t know. I just probably went outside

7 and drove a golf cart.

8 Q. Do you recall the first time that you went

9 to Mr. Jackson’s bedroom.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. When was that.

12 A. That was probably the second visit.

13 Q. And do you recall about what time it was

14 when you went to his bedroom.

15 A. Nighttime.

16 Q. Tell us how you -- how you got into the

17 bedroom. Tell us the way it is that you get into

18 Mr. Jackson’s bedroom.

19 A. First you walk through a hallway, and then

20 you come through a door, and then you continue

21 walking. You go through another door and you walk

22 up the stairs.

23 Q. Are there any kinds of alarms or bells or

24 anything that goes off.

25 A. Yes. There’s like a bell that goes off,

26 and -- while you’re walking through the hallway.

27 And then there’s a key pad to the first door.

28 Q. All right. Did you at some point in time 1032






1 learn the code to that key pad.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And how did you acquire that information.

4 In other words, who gave it to you.

5 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; assumes facts not

6 in evidence. Move to strike.

7 THE COURT: Sustained. You have a compound

8 question.

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: At some point in time you

10 had obtained the code to that key pad.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who gave you the codes.

13 A. Michael.

14 Q. Were there more than one code.

15 A. Yes. There was the door code and the master

16 code to all the doors.

17 Q. And which one did Mr. Jackson give you.

18 A. The 1960 one.

19 Q. I’m sorry.

20 A. The -- it was the one code that could get

21 into his bedroom.

22 Q. And do you remember the numbers.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. What were they.

25 A. 1960.

26 Q. And those are the ones Mr. Jackson gave you.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Now. Were there another set of numbers. 1033






1 A. Yes, it was another code that was 1849 that

2 got you in every door.

3 Q. And where did you get that code from.

4 A. I got it from the security guard.

5 Q. Do you remember the security guard’s name.

6 A. No.

7 Q. Do you remember what he looks like.

8 A. He was -- he was white, but I don’t exactly

9 remember his face.

10 Q. I couldn’t hear what you said.

11 A. I don’t remember his face.

12 Q. Okay. And do you remember when it was that

13 you got that code from the security -- let me ask it

14 this way: At some point in time you went to Miami,

15 correct.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And then after Miami, you came back to the

18 ranch.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Now, with regard to the code number that Mr.

21 Jackson gave you - all right. --

22 A. Yeah.

23 Q. -- when did you get that code number from

24 him. Before or after you went to Miami.

25 A. After.

26 Q. And with regard to the code number that you

27 got from the security guard, was it before or after

28 you went to Miami. 1034






1 A. After.

2 Q. I’m sorry.

3 A. After.

4 Q. So on the first occasion that you went to

5 Mr. Jackson’s room, you did not have a code number.

6 A. No.

7 Q. Who all went to the room when you went to

8 the room.

9 A. First occasion.

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. Frank, Michael, me and my brother.

12 Q. And where did you go in the room.

13 A. First we sat down and talked, and then we

14 went on a kitchen raid.

15 Q. You say you sat down and talked. Where did

16 you sit down and talk.

17 A. In the living room. Well, where the --

18 downstairs.

19 Q. Okay. Downstairs in the house.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Where in the house.

22 A. In his bedroom area downstairs.

23 Q. So you were in there talking.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Who was present.

26 A. Frank, Michael, me and my brother.

27 Q. And do you recall how long you were there

28 before you went to somewhere else. 1035








1 A. Not really.

2 Q. So you told the jury you went somewhere

3 else. Where did you go, and what was the purpose

4 for going there.

5 A. We went to -- on a kitchen raid.

6 Q. What do you mean by “a kitchen raid”.

7 A. We went to go get some food.

8 Q. And whose idea was that.

9 A. Michael’s.

10 Q. And what was it you were going to get.

11 A. Food. And my brother suggested that he

12 wanted some s’mores.

13 Q. Some s’mores.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What happened when you went to the kitchen.

16 What did you do.

17 A. We got some food.

18 Q. Who actually went to the kitchen.

19 A. Me, Frank, Michael, and my brother.

20 Q. Okay. Tell us what happened in the kitchen.

21 A. My brother wanted to make s’mores, so

22 Michael called the security guard and got some

23 Hershey chocolates and then we all went back to the

24 bedroom.

25 Q. By the way, you’ve said “Michael” this, and

26 “Michael” that. Do you recognize the defendant in

27 this case.

28 A. Yes. 1036





1 Q. That’s the “Michael” you’re talking about.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. You’re back in the bedroom.

4 Who’s back in the bedroom now, and where are you in

5 the bedroom.

6 A. Right now we’re still downstairs. Me and my

7 brother are starting to make the s’mores. And then

8 Michael says that he’s going to go to sleep.

9 Q. So does he then leave you.

10 A. Yes. But then we didn’t want to make them

11 anymore, so we just went upstairs then.

12 Q. So you’re in the downstairs area of his

13 bedroom, and you said -- where did you go then.

14 A. We went upstairs.

15 Q. How do you get there.

16 A. You go in through a door, and then you go

17 upstairs.

18 Q. Now, when you went into the bedroom area,

19 who all was there.

20 A. Frank, Michael, me and my brother.

21 Q. Anybody else.

22 A. Oh, Prince and Paris were there also.

23 Q. Now, when did Prince and Paris come into the

24 picture.

25 A. They were also there. They were also with

26 us on the kitchen raid, when we went to go get food.

27 Q. Now, when you got upstairs and you’re in the

28 room, what happened then. 1037






1 A. They were asleep on the bed, and Frank had a

2 computer. It was a computer that Michael gave him

3 the first time.

4 Q. Gave who.

5 A. Gave Gavin.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. And this time it already had Internet

8 access, so Frank did something and the Internet was

9 on, and we started going on sites.

10 Q. Going on sites.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What kind of sides.

13 A. Pornography sites.

14 Q. And where was Mr. Jackson during this time.

15 A. He was sitting right next to us.

16 Q. Where were you seated.

17 A. On the bed.

18 Q. And where was Mr. Tyson.

19 A. Typing.

20 Q. Typing. Where was he located in the room.

21 A. Right off the bed and kneeled against the

22 bed and --

23 Q. Could you see the screen.

24 A. Yes.

25 THE BAILIFF: You can pull it down a little.

26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, do you recall whose

27 idea it was to go on the Internet.

28 A. Michael’s. 1038






1 Q. Do you recall what he said.

2 A. No. But while we were on one of those

3 sites, a lady had her shirt up, and Michael said,

4 “Got milk”.

5 Q. Do you remember that.

6 A. Yeah. And then he leaned over to Prince and

7 says, “You’re missing some p-u-s-s-y,” but he said

8 it, in his ear, but Prince was still asleep.

9 Q. How many sites do you feel that you went to

10 that night.

11 A. I don’t really remember, but probably, say,

12 five or six.

13 Q. And what did the sites have. You don’t need

14 to go into all the details, but generally what was

15 the common denominator.

16 A. Females.

17 Q. Huh.

18 A. Females.

19 Q. And can you tell us whether or not they had

20 clothes on.

21 A. They didn’t have clothes on.

22 Q. Females only.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Where did you sleep that night.

25 A. Michael’s bed.

26 Q. And where did your brother sleep that night.

27 A. Right next to me.

28 Q. And Mr. Jackson, where did Mr. Jackson 1039






1 sleep.

2 A. He slept on the foot of the bed on the

3 floor.

4 Q. And Mr. Tyson.

5 A. To the right of the bed on the floor.

6 Q. And Prince and Paris, did they --

7 A. They -- I think they slept on the bed with

8 us.

9 Q. Do you remember what you did after -- let me

10 ask you this: How long do you think you were

11 watching these --

12 A. Sites.

13 Q. -- sites that you went to.

14 A. 15, ten minutes. Ten minutes.

15 Q. And then where -- what did you guys do.

16 A. We -- after all that, we started watching

17 some Simpsons videos.

18 Q. Okay. Then what.

19 A. And then Michael told us not to tell no one

20 what we did.

21 Q. I’m sorry.

22 A. He told us not to tell our parents what we

23 did.

24 Q. Who said that.

25 A. Michael.

26 Q. All right. I have some more photographs I

27 want to show you.

28 A. All right. 1040






1 Q. Okay. Star, I’m going to ask you some --

2 no, you need it; I don’t. I’m asking some questions

3 about the photographs I put in front of you.

4 And for the record, Your Honor, I’ve shown

5 them to counsel for his examination.

6 All right. The first one you have in front

7 of you is marked as People’s 188 for identification.

8 Do you recognize what’s depicted in that photograph.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Is that an accurate picture of what’s in

11 there, of what it shows.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Just turn it over. Set it right over there.

14 That’s it. Good.

15 Now, the next one is, I’m sorry, 50,

16 People’s 50 for identification. Do you recognize

17 that.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And is that an accurate representation of

20 what it depicts.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. All right. Turn it over. I’m going to ask

23 you some questions about these, but I just want to

24 lay the foundation first.

25 All right. With regard to 52 for

26 identification, do you recognize that.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of what it 1041







1 represents.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. Turn that over, if you would.

4 And we’ll move on to the next one, which is

5 People’s 53. Do you recognize that.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of what it

8 represents.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. Flip it over, if you would.

11 And People’s 54, do you recognize that.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of what it

14 represents, or purports to represent.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. Now, the next photograph is one that

17 is actually in evidence, and so you can just turn

18 that over. I’ll ask you questions about that later.

19 And the next one is 196 for identification

20 purposes. Do you recognize the people in that

21 photograph.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of what

24 those people looked like at the time that it was

25 taken.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. All right. Turn that over.

28 And the next photograph is 110. And is that 1042






1 an accurate depiction of what it represents.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And with regard to 111, is that an accurate

4 depiction.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 Your Honor, I’d move that those photographs

8 be admitted into evidence.

9 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.

10 THE COURT: They’re admitted.

11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Now, Gavin,

12 just -- Star, just flip those over and I’m going to

13 ask you some questions about those photographs, if

14 we can. Okay.

15 A. Okay.

16 Q. You can flip them back over so you’re

17 looking at them, so they’re in the same order.

18 Could I have just a second, Your Honor.

19 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

20 table.)

21 Q. Now, the first photograph that you have is a

22 photograph that’s on the board.

23 Ron, could you give me that, please. The

24 black case. Thank you.

25 It’s on the board. Do you recognize the

26 photograph that’s in evidence as People’s 188.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. All right. Would you tell the ladies and 1043






1 gentlemen of the jury what that is.

2 A. That’s the front view of the main house.

3 Q. “Of the main house.” Of whose house.

4 A. Michael’s house. It’s the front door.

5 Q. All right. Now, do you want to turn that

6 over.

7 And we’ll pick up the next photograph, which

8 is the one that’s marked as People’s 50.

9 A. Okay.

10 Q. Do you have People’s 50 there.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Do you recognize the photograph that’s

13 depicted on the board behind you. Take a look at

14 it, and make sure they’re the same.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. They are. Okay.

17 And what is that. Tell the ladies and

18 gentlemen of the jury what that is.

19 A. That’s the hallway leading to Michael’s

20 bedroom.

21 Q. Now, this particular door that leads to the

22 hallway, does that door have a key pad on it.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Is there another way in to Mr. Jackson’s

25 hallway that leads to his bedroom, other than this

26 door.

27 A. Through the library.

28 Q. And do you see the door in this photograph 1044






1 that you can use to get into that hallway from the

2 library.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. All right. I’m going to give you this

5 marker.

6 Now, would you show the ladies and gentlemen

7 of the jury on the photograph behind you where that

8 other door is that you can access that hallway.

9 So you’re talking about the one that’s just

10 above the duck.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And about in the middle of the photograph.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Okay. Put that down.

15 Now, with regard to getting into the hallway

16 from the library, do you need a code of any kind to

17 get in from there.

18 A. No.

19 Q. All right. Now, let’s go to the next

20 photograph, which is People’s 52 in evidence. Do

21 you recognize that photograph.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury

24 what 52 is.

25 A. It’s the hallway leading to Michael’s

26 bedroom.

27 Q. And can you use the little -- yeah, the

28 black thing. I know there’s a name for those 1045






1 things, it just escapes me.

2 A. A laser.

3 Q. What.

4 A. It’s a laser.

5 Q. Can you use the laser pencil for us and show

6 us the view where Mr. Jackson’s -- the entrance to

7 his bedroom.

8 So straight in the middle of the photograph

9 towards the rear.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. All right. Now, let’s turn to the next

12 photograph, which is 53; is that correct.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. All right. Now, what’s 53.

15 A. It’s just a closer view of Michael’s -- oh,

16 it’s just a view of the doors.

17 Q. Now, on this particular photograph, would

18 you use the laser for us again, please, and tell us

19 where the key pad is.

20 A. Right there. It’s behind all this stuff.

21 Q. Okay. Lean in -- turn around and lean into

22 the microphone.

23 A. It’s behind all this stuff.

24 Q. All right. So you’re indicating behind the

25 machine that says “Wild Water”.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. It’s behind there.

28 A. Yes. 1046






1 Q. Now, with regard to the photograph that you

2 have on the board right now, do you see that on the

3 far right-hand side of the photograph.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Do you recognize that thing that’s depicted

6 there.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What is that.

9 A. That’s like detectors.

10 Q. What.

11 A. Something like -- I don’t know what they’re

12 called, but --

13 Q. During the time that you were at -- staying

14 at the ranch, did those -- did that -- did that

15 work.

16 A. I don’t know.

17 Q. Were there any other things that, while you

18 were visiting the ranch, that, when you went to a

19 certain point, gave off noise.

20 A. Oh, it was like a sensor. Like once you

21 reached like the middle of the hallway, it was

22 like -- it was like a ring.

23 Q. What kind of a ring.

24 A. Like “ding.” I don’t know. It was like a

25 ring. It wasn’t like a constant ring. It was like

26 on and off for a little while.

27 Q. Okay.

28 Q. How long. 1047






1 A. Five seconds.

2 Q. All right. Let’s go to the last photograph,

3 if we can.

4 A. Do you mean this one.

5 Q. And what’s that, 54.

6 A. 54, oh. That’s the view entrance of

7 Michael’s bedroom.

8 Q. All right. Now, you can put that one down.

9 And the next photograph I’m going to have

10 you look at is People’s 20 in evidence. Do you

11 recognize that person.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Who is that.

14 A. It’s Frank Tyson.

15 Q. Now, did you ever know Mr. Tyson by any

16 other name than “Tyson”.

17 A. No. No.

18 Q. All right. Why don’t you put that

19 photograph down.

20 Now, when you told the ladies and gentlemen

21 of the jury that you were there on that first

22 occasion that you went into Michael’s bedroom, is

23 this the person you were referring to.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. All right. Let’s go to 196. Do you

26 recognize that photograph.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Do you recognize where it was taken. 1048






1 A. It was in Neverland.

2 Q. And do you recognize the people in the

3 photograph.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And who are the people in the photograph.

6 A. Michael, my brother and me. Michael, my

7 brother and me.

8 Q. I’m sorry, I didn’t hear the last part.

9 Now, is that the way your brother looked

10 back at that point in time.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Was that a wheelchair that you got at the

13 ranch or was that one that your family had for

14 Gavin.

15 A. That was at the ranch.

16 Q. All right. And then there are two last

17 photographs. But before we go, do you recall

18 approximately when it was that that photograph,

19 People’s 196, was taken.

20 A. What year.

21 Q. If you can.

22 A. I don’t know. It was the time between when

23 he had cancer. When he had cancer.

24 Q. It was obviously during one of your visits.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Do you recall whether it was the first visit

27 or some visit after that.

28 A. It was some visit after that. 1049






1 Q. Why do you think that.

2 A. It wasn’t the first visit.

3 Q. I didn’t hear you.

4 A. It wasn’t the first visit.

5 Q. And why do you know that.

6 A. Because we didn’t do that the first visit.

7 Q. So it’s sometime after that.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Do you remember how long after that.

10 A. No.

11 Q. All right. Let’s go to the photograph 110.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. Do you see -- do you see the photograph 110.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. All right. You’ve told us about riding

16 around in some carts.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Now, tell us about this photograph.

19 A. That’s Michael’s Bentley. And that’s -- the

20 light blue car is Marie Nicole’s car.

21 Q. Which one are you referring to.

22 A. This one. This one.

23 Q. How do you know it’s Marie Nicole’s car.

24 A. It had “Marie Nicole” on the hood.

25 Q. All right. How many such cars like that did

26 you see on the ranch. “Cars.” Carts.

27 A. Probably, like, ten of them.

28 Q. All right. Let’s go to People’s 111. 1050






1 Do you recognize that photograph.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Tell us about it.

4 A. That’s the Spiderman cart, and that’s Marie

5 Nicole’s car. And --

6 Q. Where is the Spiderman’s cart.

7 A. Right there.

8 Q. All right.

9 A. And that’s the video library.

10 Q. By that, do you mean -- you pointed to the

11 roof up by a place where there’s a window about the

12 middle of the roof and to the far left of the

13 photograph.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And you’ve been in the video library.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. How many times do you think you’ve been in

18 the video library.

19 A. A lot of times.

20 Q. Yeah. Why don’t you go ahead and put those

21 up there, and we’ll turn the lights back on.

22 After the time that you were at the ranch,

23 and it was the night, the first -- the first night

24 that you spent in Mr. Jackson’s bedroom --

25 A. Uh-huh.

26 Q. -- okay. - did you go back to the ranch on

27 other occasions during the time that Gavin had

28 cancer. 1051






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And how many times do you think you went.

3 A. I don’t know exact.

4 Q. Did your mother ever go with you.

5 A. No.

6 Q. Who went.

7 A. Just my brother, me, and my dad. But

8 sometimes it was just mostly my brother and my dad.

9 Q. So there were times that you didn’t even go,

10 but just your father and Gavin went.

11 A. No.

12 Q. What.

13 A. No. Wait.

14 Q. Okay. Yeah, you -- I might have

15 misunderstood you. It’s my fault. So let’s just go

16 back. I asked you if there were times that your

17 mother went with you and your father, other than the

18 times you’ve told us about. Okay.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. Were there any other times your mother went.

21 A. No. Except after the Miami trip. Then she

22 came.

23 Q. Okay. So up to the Miami trip.

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. Now, were there times that you went back

26 with your father.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And who else went with you. 1052






1 A. My brother.

2 Q. Did your sister go.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Now, were there times that Gavin and your

5 father would go, but you wouldn’t go.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. The times that you went to the ranch after

8 the time that you were in Michael Jackson’s bedroom

9 and spent the night - okay. --

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. -- from those times that you went with your

12 father, when you went, was Mr. Jackson there.

13 A. No. No.

14 Q. Do you remember the first time that you went

15 back to the ranch after your dad left the family.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. When was that.

18 A. That was when we were heading to the ranch,

19 just me, my brother and my sister by ourselves.

20 Q. And did you go with somebody.

21 A. Me, my brother and my sister.

22 Q. Okay. Anybody else.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you ever go to the ranch with Chris

25 Tucker.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Why. What were the occasions.

28 A. I don’t know. He just wanted to go to the 1053






1 ranch.

2 Q. How many times did you go with him.

3 A. Four times.

4 Q. All right. Tell us about the first time.

5 Or tell us about -- anything about those times stand

6 out.

7 A. There’s one time we went to go celebrate his

8 son’s birthday, and we just ended up staying there

9 for about a week with Chris.

10 Q. Mr. Tucker was there the whole time.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And where did you stay during the times you

13 were there with Mr. Tucker.

14 A. Guest units. And then the last night we

15 stood in a teepee.

16 Q. Was Mr. Jackson there on any of those

17 occasions.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Who stayed in the teepee.

20 A. There was a lot of people. There was Chris,

21 me, my brother, my sister. Wait. I don’t think my

22 sister was there. I don’t know. But --

23 Q. I couldn’t hear what you said.

24 A. I don’t know if my sister was there. She

25 was probably there. But it was a female. There was

26 a kid named Adrian. There was another person there

27 also. I don’t remember their names.

28 Q. Do you recognize the name Martin Bashir. 1054






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And how do you recognize it.

3 A. He was the person that did the taping of

4 “Living with Michael Jackson.”

5 Q. How do you know that.

6 A. Because we were introduced to him.

7 Q. Where were you introduced to him.

8 A. At the ranch.

9 Q. Do you remember about when that was.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Was it before or after the time that you’d

12 gone to the ranch with Mr. Tucker and his children,

13 or child.

14 A. It was after.

15 Q. And do you recall, was it during the time

16 that you were in school or was it during the summer.

17 A. School.

18 Q. And who all went to the ranch on this time,

19 on this occasion.

20 A. It was only me, my brother and my sister.

21 We went up there by ourselves.

22 Q. And how did you get there.

23 A. By limo.

24 Q. And where were you picked up.

25 A. The -- the East L.A. apartment on Soto.

26 Q. And do you remember what time of the day or

27 night it was that you got there, in terms of was it

28 daylight, was it dark, was it in the morning; do you 1055






1 recall.

2 A. It was probably in the morning. Somewhere

3 around there.

4 Q. I’m sorry.

5 A. It was probably in the morning.

6 Q. Now, do you remember when you got there,

7 what -- what you did. Where did you go when you got

8 out of the limo.

9 A. We entered through the back of the main

10 house, and Michael took my brother aside.

11 Q. Now, when you say you entered through the

12 back, the photograph that we saw just a few moments

13 ago, the photograph 188 in evidence, the People’s

14 exhibit, does that show the entrance you went into.

15 A. No. That’s the front entrance.

16 Q. So if I were standing in the front of the

17 house, if I were a juror in this case standing in

18 the front of the house, where would I have to go to

19 get into the entrance that you went into the day of

20 the Bashir incident.

21 A. You would have to walk around the house to

22 the left, and there’s a door back there, if you walk

23 around the house.

24 Q. Lean into the mike, please.

25 A. You have to walk around the house to the

26 left.

27 Q. All right. When you walk in the door, what

28 room are you in in the house. 1056






1 A. Through the back exit.

2 Q. Yes, the one you came in.

3 A. You’re looking at the -- the workers’ lounge

4 or something.

5 Q. Okay. And then where -- where does that

6 lead to.

7 A. It leads to the kitchen, to the dining area.

8 To everywhere.

9 Q. So where was it that you saw your brother

10 Gavin go with Mr. Jackson.

11 A. He told us, me and my sister, to wait right

12 there, and so we did. And he took my brother off to

13 the dining area.

14 Q. Did you lose sight of your brother.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Now, how long was your brother gone; do you

17 recall. Just approximately.

18 A. 20 minutes. 20 minutes.

19 Q. And when he came back, what happened.

20 A. They sat down and --

21 Q. Who sat down.

22 A. Michael and my brother.

23 Q. And where did they sit down.

24 A. On the couch that was near the kitchen.

25 Q. Were you at any time ever introduced to

26 Mr. Bashir that day.

27 A. I think it was probably before the taping.

28 Q. So -- you say “before the taping.” When did 1057






1 that occur.

2 A. What.

3 Q. What was going on at the time that you were

4 introduced by Mr. Bashir. Who introduced you.

5 A. Michael.

6 Q. Now, did you have an understanding -- did

7 you personally have an understanding that you were

8 going to appear on film that day.

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did you eventually appear on film that day.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And what were you doing on film.

13 A. We were showing Michael one of our military

14 cadences that we learned from a program, military

15 program.

16 Q. What military program.

17 A. At that time we were in the NLCC. Stood for

18 Naval League Cadet Corps. That’s what it -- it was

19 a Navy program.

20 Q. And do you remember when you joined that

21 program.

22 A. I was 11.

23 Q. Before the Bashir -- I mean in relation to

24 the Bashir --

25 A. It was before.

26 Q. Are you still in that program.

27 A. No.

28 Q. Are you in another program. 1058






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What’s that.

3 A. It’s Infantry Explorers.

4 Q. And what service is that connected with.

5 A. Army.

6 Q. And how long have you been in that program.

7 A. It’s going on four months. We barely

8 joined.

9 Q. I’m sorry.

10 A. We barely joined four months ago.

11 Q. Were you ever in a Navy program.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What was that.

14 A. That was the Naval Sea Cadets. It was an

15 older program. It’s for older kids. It’s from 13

16 to 17.

17 Q. And how long were you in that.

18 A. About a year.

19 Q. Now, at the time that you were there with

20 the -- Mr. Jackson and your brother and your sister

21 and Mr. Bashir, were you told before you got there

22 why you were going to the ranch.

23 A. No.

24 Q. You personally were never told.

25 A. No, I was never told.

26 Q. Now, after the -- were you present during

27 the time that your brother appeared with Mr. Jackson

28 on that film. 1059






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Did you watch it.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you watch it get filmed.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. After the filming was done, they came back

7 and filmed you folks in the kitchen there.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. With Mr. Jackson.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. After that was done, did you see where

12 Mr. Jackson went.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did you see him any more during the visit.

15 A. No.

16 Q. Did Mr. Jackson at any time tell you where

17 he was going.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did you -- did you stay at the ranch, or did

20 you leave.

21 A. We stood.

22 Q. The night.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Now, at some point in time, you’ve told us

25 that you went to Miami.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Now, between the time that you had gone to

28 the ranch and been with Mr. Jackson and your brother 1060






1 Gavin when they -- the Martin Bashir filming took

2 place - okay. --

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. -- between that time and the time you left

5 for Miami, did you personally have any contact with

6 Mr. Jackson.

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did you go to the ranch on any occasions

9 between those two periods of time, the time of the

10 Bashir filming and the time you left for Miami.

11 A. No.

12 Q. To your knowledge, did anybody from your

13 family go to the ranch during that period of time.

14 A. No.

15 Q. To your knowledge, did anybody have any

16 contact with Mr. Jackson during that period of time.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Without telling me what was said, when was

19 it that you first learned -- from whom did you first

20 learn you were going to Miami.

21 A. My brother.

22 Q. And were you present during a time where a

23 telephone call occurred between your brother and

24 Mr. Jackson.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Where were you and your brother at that

27 point in time.

28 A. We were barely waking up to go to school. 1061






1 Q. Very literal. All right. You’re barely

2 waking up.

3 So what house -- what location were you at.

4 A. Oh. We were at the St. Andrews apartment.

5 Q. Whose apartment is that.

6 A. It’s Jay’s apartment.

7 Q. Major Jackson.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And was your mother there at that time.

10 A. Yes, she was.

11 Q. And how about Mr. Jackson, was he -- I know

12 that’s his apartment. But at the time that your

13 brother was on the phone, was Mr. Jackson there.

14 A. No, he was at work.

15 Q. Now, were you present during the -- not a

16 part of it, but were you present when your brother

17 was on the phone.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did your mother participate in that

20 conversation, as you recall.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. At the end of that conversation, were you

23 told to do something.

24 A. Pack my bags.

25 Q. Who told you that.

26 A. My brother.

27 Q. Did you do that.

28 A. Yes. 1062






1 Q. So you didn’t go to school that day.

2 A. No. No.

3 Q. Were you told how you were going to get to

4 Miami.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. How.

7 A. We were going to go by a commercial airline.

8 Q. Did you go to Miami by commercial airline.

9 A. No.

10 Q. What form of transportation did you take to

11 get to Miami.

12 A. We went with Chris Tucker on his private

13 jet, or lear jet.

14 Q. So how was it that you hooked up with

15 Mr. Tucker that day to go on this flight to Miami.

16 A. What do you mean.

17 Q. How did you get from your apartment at St.

18 Andrews, or Mr. Jackson’s.

19 A. Someone dropped us off there.

20 Q. Dropped you off where.

21 A. At the airport, where we met. Wait. I

22 don’t remember. But I know that someone picked us

23 up. Either drove us to his house or to the airport.

24 Q. Okay. You say “his house.” Who do you mean

25 by “his house”.

26 A. Chris Tucker’s house.

27 Q. So you don’t remember whether you went there

28 or the airport, but that’s where the plane was. 1063






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Who was on the plane.

3 A. Me, my brother, my sister, my mom, and

4 Chris. And there was another guy, but I don’t

5 remember his name.

6 Q. Now, Chris Tucker --

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. -- had you known Mr. Tucker prior to this --

9 prior to going to Miami.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And do you remember how it was that you met

12 Mr. Tucker.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Tell the jury how you met Mr. Tucker.

15 A. I met him through The Laugh Factory

16 comedy -- it was after the comedy camp.

17 Q. Okay. After the comedy camp.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. What was the -- how did you meet him. How

20 did that come about.

21 A. He was there one day, and my brother wanted

22 to go see the show. And so my brother met Chris

23 Tucker.

24 Q. Did you sort of become friends with

25 Mr. Tucker.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Did you go places with Mr. Tucker.

28 A. Yes. 1064





1 Q. Where are some of the places you went with

2 him.

3 A. Nickelodeon Kids Awards. And to his house.

4 To Oakland to see a Raiders game. And other places.

5 I don’t --

6 Q. Were you ever present during a situation

7 where your brother met Kobe Bryant.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Where did that occur.

10 A. Oh, and Chris also took us to a Lakers game.

11 Q. Okay. Let’s talk about the first one. You

12 were present on that -- at the time that happened.

13 A. I wasn’t, no. I wasn’t present when he went

14 into the locker room.

15 Q. You’re talking about the Laker game now.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay. What about the first time.

18 A. Oh, yeah, I was present. He was at The

19 Laugh Factory.

20 Q. And was Chris Tucker involved in that, too.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And the second occasion was at a Laker game.

23 A. Yes. The first occasion was at the Laker

24 game. The second occasion was at The Laugh Factory.

25 Q. Oh, okay. Now, at the Laker game, was your

26 brother -- other than going to the locker room, was

27 there some other form of unusual thing that occurred

28 that evening. 1065





1 A. He was shown on the big screen, or shown on

2 the big screen.

3 Q. So your brother’s picture was shown on the

4 big screen.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. At the Laker game.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. Let’s talk a little bit about

9 the trip to Miami. You’re on the plane. Do you

10 remember how long it took you to get there.

11 A. Five hours or so. Yeah, five hours.

12 Q. And where did you land.

13 A. At an airport.

14 Q. Good answer. Stupid question, but good

15 answer.

16 When you got to the airport and the plane

17 landed, where did you go from there and how did you

18 get there.

19 A. We were going to the Turnberry Resort. And

20 we -- we left by limousine.

21 Q. And was it -- was it daytime or nighttime at

22 the time, if you remember.

23 A. It was nighttime.

24 Q. Do you remember about what time it was.

25 A. It was really late.

26 Q. So when you got to the Turnberry, do you

27 remember the first thing you did.

28 A. We went to Chris Tucker’s room. 1066






1 Q. Okay.

2 A. And then we went to our room.

3 Q. When you say “we went to our room,” who went

4 to the room that you call “our room”.

5 A. My mom, my brother and my sister and me.

6 Q. So you were all in one room.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Now, when you got to your room after

9 visiting with Mr. Tucker, what did you do.

10 A. We went to sleep.

11 Q. All right. The next day when you woke up,

12 do you remember about what time it was when you woke

13 up.

14 A. It was really late. It was probably around

15 2:00.

16 Q. In the afternoon.

17 A. Yes. In Florida.

18 Q. So when you woke up, what did you do.

19 A. We -- we went to Chris’s room, and then we

20 went to Michael’s room.

21 Q. Now, you say you went to Chris’s room. When

22 you went to Chris’s room, did Chris go with you to

23 Mr. Jackson’s room --

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. -- or did he stay in his room.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. In relationship to your room, where was Mr.

28 Jackson’s room. 1067






1 A. The floor above us.

2 Q. Do you remember what floor you were on.

3 A. Fifth floor.

4 Q. Now, do you remember what you saw when you

5 got off the elevator on the floor where Mr.

6 Jackson’s room was.

7 A. There was security guards all over the

8 floor.

9 Q. Okay. And what did you do.

10 A. Went to his room.

11 Q. And when you went in the room, who was in

12 the room when you first got into the room.

13 A. It was Marie Nicole, Aldo, Michael and --

14 that’s who we first saw.

15 Q. During the time that you were there, did you

16 get introduced to any other people that day.

17 A. Yeah, we were introduced to Dieter and

18 Ronald.

19 Q. And did you see Mr. Tyson at all that day.

20 A. Yeah, later that day.

21 Q. Do you remember approximately when later

22 that day.

23 A. Nighttime.

24 Q. Now, during the time that you were in -- you

25 come -- let’s go back when you first got in there

26 and you were introduced to Aldo and Marie Nicole.

27 Okay.

28 A. Okay. 1068






1 Q. Now, was Mr. Jackson present in the -- at

2 the time you walked through the door.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you have any greetings with Mr. Jackson.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. What did you do.

7 A. We all sat down and we started talking and

8 he asked us if we were hungry.

9 Q. He what.

10 A. He asked us if we were hungry.

11 Q. Were you.

12 A. A little bit. It was -- so then we ordered

13 room service. And then Michael took my brother into

14 a separate room.

15 Q. Did you actually see Mr. Jackson and your

16 brother go to a separate room.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Did you, at some point, go into that room.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What was going on when you walked into the

21 room.

22 A. They were cussing.

23 Q. What do you mean, “they were cussing”.

24 A. They were saying bad words.

25 Q. And what was the nature of what they were

26 doing.

27 A. They were probably saying the “F” word, the

28 “B” word, all different combinations. 1069






1 Q. And did you join into this.

2 A. I was right there, and he told me, yeah.

3 Q. Who told you.

4 A. Michael.

5 Q. Told you what.

6 A. To join in.

7 Q. Why.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; calls for

9 speculation.

10 THE COURT: Sustained.

11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did Mr. Jackson, when he

12 said “join in,” did he say anything else about what

13 you were joining.

14 A. What do you mean.

15 Q. Okay. At the time you walked in there, and

16 they’re cussing, correct.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And you’re asked to join in.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. How was this going about. Just --

21 A. They were just cussing. Like saying

22 different combinations. And that’s all. And he

23 told me to join in.

24 Q. Did you do that.

25 A. Yeah.

26 Q. How long did this go on.

27 A. Probably two minutes before Grace walked in.

28 Q. And did you see where Grace -- who is Grace, 1070






1 by the way.

2 A. It’s Prince and Paris’s nanny.

3 Q. Was this the first time you met her or had

4 you met her before.

5 A. I’ve met her before.

6 Q. Where did you meet her the first time.

7 A. The ranch. Neverland Ranch.

8 Q. During your earlier visits.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So, she walks -- when Grace walks in, what

11 happened.

12 A. We stopped.

13 Q. And then did she remain in the room.

14 A. She was talking to Michael.

15 Q. And how long -- what happened after she

16 finished talking to Mr. Jackson.

17 A. We went into his bedroom where Prince and

18 Paris were.

19 Q. By “you,” who do you mean.

20 A. Me and my brother and Michael and Grace. We

21 all went back into the bedroom.

22 Q. So the room that you were in where all the

23 cussing was going on was a separate room from the

24 bedroom.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And how long did you remain in there.

27 A. Where.

28 Q. Yes. 1071






1 A. Five minutes probably. I don’t know.

2 Q. And then where did you go.

3 A. I went back outside.

4 Q. And what about your brother Gavin.

5 A. He stood with Michael.

6 Q. Where.

7 A. In the bedroom. Wherever he went.

8 Q. So you didn’t see Gavin come out.

9 A. No.

10 Q. At some point that day, did -- well, let me

11 ask it this way: How many times that day do you

12 think you saw your brother Gavin go into a room with

13 Mr. Jackson.

14 A. Probably once. I was off playing with

15 Prince and Paris.

16 Q. Okay. Where were you with Prince and Paris.

17 A. I was in the kitchen filling up water

18 balloons.

19 Q. Later, did you notice anything unusual about

20 your brother.

21 A. Probably --

22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

23 THE COURT: Overruled.

24 You may answer.

25 THE WITNESS: He was stumbling around.

26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Your brother.

27 A. Yes. And he had a soda can in his hand.

28 Q. What else did you notice about your brother. 1072






1 A. He wasn’t acting right. He was acting

2 funny.

3 Q. Do you remember about what time of the day

4 it was when all this was going on, when you saw your

5 brother in this condition.

6 A. Nighttime.

7 Q. Did you say anything to your mom about it.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Did you know what was -- what -- did you

10 know why he was acting that way.

11 A. He walked over to me and told me -- well, I

12 saw into the brim of his soda.

13 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; nonresponsive.

14 Move to strike.

15 THE COURT: Sustained; stricken.

16 MR. SNEDDON: I couldn’t hear the Court.

17 THE COURT: Sustained; stricken.

18 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: When your brother was in

19 this condition, did he come over and talk to you at

20 all.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And when he did, did you observe anything.

23 A. Yes, I saw --

24 Q. Tell us what you observed.

25 A. I saw into his -- well, I saw the brim of

26 his 7-Up can. 7-Up’s clear, and I saw red around

27 the 7-Up can. It was like -- it wasn’t really dark

28 red, but it was like light red. It was -- 1073







1 Q. Did he say anything -- don’t tell me what he

2 said. Did he say anything to you at that time.

3 A. No, he was just, like, saying weird stuff.

4 It didn’t make sense.

5 Q. Now, that evening, was Mr. Jackson present

6 in the -- in the main room of the -- of the room

7 there where Mr. Jackson’s rooms were. Was he

8 present.

9 A. I don’t remember.

10 Q. Do you remember that evening whether you

11 were going to watch something on T.V..

12 A. Oh, yeah. The “Living with Michael Jackson”

13 was coming on.

14 Q. How do you know that.

15 A. We knew that day that that was for -- that

16 was the first day it was going to be aired. And

17 Michael said for none of the T.V.’s to be on.

18 Q. I couldn’t hear you.

19 A. Michael said for none of the T.V.’s to be

20 on.

21 Q. Were you present when he said that.

22 A. No, it was just whenever we tried to turn on

23 T.V., they were just turned off.

24 Q. Who turned them off.

25 A. Well, anybody, really. What do you mean.

26 Like --

27 Q. Who turned the T.V.’s off when you turned

28 them on. 1074





1 A. There was one time I was sitting in the

2 bedroom, and I was watching another -- it was like

3 another special, or it was like an old one. And he

4 walked in and he told me not to watch that, and he

5 turned it off.

6 Q. Who.

7 A. Michael.

8 Q. The defendant.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Now, about the program that night, did you

11 hear Mr. Jackson say anything about whether people

12 could watch it or not watch it at their choice.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Now, the people that you said that you were

15 introduced to by the name of Dieter and Ronald --

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. -- did you see them that day.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did you see them with Mr. Jackson that day.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Can you tell us what you saw them doing.

22 A. Walking around.

23 Q. Where.

24 A. They walked into the bedroom.

25 Q. And do you recall how long they were in

26 there.

27 A. No.

28 Q. Can you give me an approximate of how long 1075





1 you think they were in there.

2 A. 20 minutes.

3 Q. Were they in there on more than one

4 occasion, that you saw personally.

5 A. No. Well, I only saw them once.

6 Q. You just saw the one occasion.

7 A. Yeah, I was somewhere else.

8 Q. You said you were somewhere else. Where was

9 the “somewhere else” that you were.

10 A. With Prince and Paris and with Marie Nicole

11 and Aldo.

12 Q. And where was that in this complex.

13 A. Kitchen, the living room, the other bedroom

14 that was right next to this hotel room or resort

15 room.

16 THE COURT: Let’s take our break.

17 (Recess taken.)

18 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.

19 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you, Your Honor.

20 Q. Okay. Star, we’re -- I’d like to go back to

21 the point where we were in Miami at the Turnberry.

22 Okay.

23 A. Okay.

24 Q. And ask you a few more questions about some

25 things that happened that evening. Okay.

26 A. Okay.

27 Q. Now, at any time that evening, did you see

28 your mother leave Mr. Jackson’s rooms. 1076





1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Do you remember about what time that was.

3 A. It was probably nighttime.

4 Q. And do you know where she went.

5 A. She went back to the room.

6 Q. And when your mother left, did you see

7 something happen.

8 A. Um, I don’t know who it was, but they sent

9 someone to go get my mom.

10 Q. Did you see that.

11 A. No.

12 Q. No, I meant, did you see them send somebody.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And then did you see your mom come back.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And was she alone or with somebody.

17 A. She was with someone.

18 Q. The same person who left.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. When you were in Miami, did you personally

21 ever participate in a press conference.

22 A. No. No.

23 Q. To your knowledge, did your brother ever

24 participate in a press conference.

25 A. No.

26 Q. Actually, I think we all liked it the better

27 way where you could be heard. Could you lean a

28 little closer. 1077





1 A. Okay.

2 Q. That’s perfect. You’ll save everybody a lot

3 of problems if you just speak like that.

4 On the time that you’re in Miami at the

5 Turnberry, did you ever drink any alcohol on that

6 time.

7 A. No.

8 Q. Do you remember the day that you left Miami.

9 A. No.

10 Q. I mean, do you remember anything that

11 happened that day. Do you remember getting on the

12 plane.

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. All right. What time was it when you got to

15 the plane. Was it daylight or dark, or what.

16 A. It was turning into night.

17 Q. And that particular day, during that day, do

18 you remember anything that happened.

19 A. That day. I think that was the day that

20 Michael gave my brother a watch.

21 Q. Do you remember anything else that happened

22 that day besides that.

23 A. Going home.

24 Q. Did you see Chris Tucker that day.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Where did you see him.

27 A. Michael’s room.

28 Q. On the day you left. 1078






1 A. Oh, the day we left. No. Chris took me, my

2 brother to the resort massage area, or where -- I

3 don’t know what it’s called.

4 Q. Okay. When he took you there, what

5 happened.

6 A. He -- we got massages.

7 Q. Did you ever have a massage before.

8 A. No.

9 Q. Pardon.

10 A. No.

11 Q. How did you get from the hotel to the

12 airport.

13 A. By a shuttle.

14 Q. And who was with you.

15 A. Michael, me and my brother, my sister, my

16 mom, Grace, Prince and Paris, Marie Nicole, Aldo.

17 Everyone that was there. And a guy named Dr.

18 Farshshian, I think. I think that’s how you

19 pronounce his name.

20 Q. Now, did -- did you get on the plane.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did all of those folks get on the plane.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Now, I want to go back in point of time to

25 ask you one other question about Miami, before we

26 start talking about the plane trip. Okay.

27 A. Okay.

28 Q. You told the ladies and gentlemen of the 1079





1 jury that at some point on one evening, you saw your

2 brother acting kind of weird and saying some things

3 that didn’t make sense.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Did you notice anything about your brother

6 the next morning.

7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; vague.

8 THE COURT: Sustained.

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Were you in the room the

10 next morning when your brother -- when you woke up,

11 was your brother in the room.

12 A. I think so.

13 Q. Did your brother have any problems the next

14 morning.

15 A. He didn’t feel good. He had a headache.

16 Q. Anything else.

17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

18 THE COURT: Overruled.

19 THE WITNESS: He was -- he had a headache.

20 He felt like he was going to throw up. Just didn’t

21 feel good.

22 MR. SNEDDON: All right. Your Honor, at

23 this point, if we could use the lights again, I’m

24 going to show the witness some photographs.

25 Counsel.

26 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

27 table.)

28 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. I’m going to 1080






1 show you some photographs. I’m going to lay them in

2 front of you - they’re all in evidence - and I’m

3 going to go through them one by one with you.

4 All right. Do you recognize the photograph

5 that’s marked as People’s No. 17 in evidence.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Who is that.

8 A. It’s Dieter.

9 Q. And where was it that you met Dieter for the

10 first time.

11 A. In Miami.

12 Q. And where in Miami.

13 A. In Michael’s room.

14 Q. All right. And put that one down.

15 Pick up the next one, People’s 18 in

16 evidence. Do you recognize that person.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Who is that.

19 A. Ronald.

20 Q. And where did you meet Ronald for the first

21 time.

22 A. Michael’s room.

23 Q. And where in Michael’s -- were you in Miami.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. All right. Put that one down.

26 The next photograph, which is People’s 21,

27 who is that.

28 A. That’s Aldo. 1081






1 Q. Where was it the first time you met the

2 person you know as Aldo.

3 A. In Miami.

4 Q. Does Aldo have a nickname.

5 A. Yes, it’s Baby Rubba.

6 Q. Okay. Where did you meet him in Miami.

7 A. In Michael’s bedroom.

8 Q. All right. 22, People’s 22 in evidence,

9 who’s that.

10 A. Marie Nicole.

11 Q. And where did you meet her for the first

12 time.

13 A. In Michael’s room.

14 Q. Would that have been in Miami also.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. All right. Put that one down.

17 The next one is People’s 43. Do you

18 recognize the person in that photograph.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Who is that.

21 A. It’s Grace. Prince and Paris’s nanny.

22 Q. Okay. You can put that one down.

23 And the next one is People’s 14. Do you

24 recognize that photograph.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Who’s that.

27 A. That’s Dustin, Chris Tucker, Aja, my sister,

28 me and my brother. 1082






1 Q. Okay. Why don’t you use that little light

2 and just show us which one is Dustin. That’s the

3 little child, correct.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. All right. Now, I have an exhibit that I’ve

6 had marked as People’s 341 for identification

7 purposes at this point.

8 I’m going to show it to you and ask you to

9 look at it.

10 Do you recognize that.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And what is that.

13 A. It’s the airplane.

14 Q. What airplane.

15 A. That we flew back from Miami.

16 Q. Does that appear to be the interior of that

17 airplane.

18 A. Yes.

19 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I move that 341

20 come into evidence.

21 We used it -- Your Honor, I might indicate

22 to the Court, we used it to illustrate the various

23 locations of the individuals as they were seated on

24 the plane to this witness’s knowledge.

25 THE COURT: All right. It’s admitted.

26 MR. SNEDDON: All right.

27 Q. Star, would you put that down in front of

28 you, please, and take those other photographs and 1083






1 stick them up on top for me. Thank you very much.

2 Now, I’m going to hand you this, and I’m

3 going to give you this pen.

4 Actually, I changed my mind. I’m going to

5 give you this pen.

6 Your Honor, with the Court’s permission, I’m

7 going to use the Elmo.

8 THE COURT: All right.

9 THE BAILIFF: You need to push “Elmo” on the

10 little --

11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Star, turning

12 around and looking at the exhibit that’s on the

13 board - okay. - do you see that.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. That’s just like the one in front of you,

16 correct.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. All right. Would you show the ladies and

19 gentlemen of the jury where the defendant, Michael

20 Jackson, was sitting on the plane.

21 Okay. Now, would you please, on your

22 exhibit in front of you, the one that’s in front of

23 you, put an “MJ.”

24 Now, where was your brother on the plane.

25 Okay. You’re indicating the bottom of the

26 diagram in the seat next to Mr. Jackson, correct.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. All right. Would you put a “G” at that 1084





1 location.

2 A. It’s not working.

3 Q. The pen’s not working.

4 A. No.

5 MR. SNEDDON: That’s all the county can

6 afford, though.

7 Q. Try that one. Is that working.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And that’s red instead of blue.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. All right. Stick with that.

12 Where were you sitting on the plane.

13 A. Right here.

14 Q. All right. Would you put your -- put an “S”

15 in there for -- and by “here,” you mean to the far

16 right side of the diagram in the white seat across

17 from the blue couch.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And where was Aldo and Marie Nicole sitting,

20 to your knowledge.

21 A. Aldo was sitting right here. And Marie

22 Nicole was sitting right here.

23 Q. On each side of the area that’s in blue,

24 correct.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Okay. Would you put “A” for where Aldo is

27 seated. And just put an “MN” for Marie Nicole on

28 the Exhibit 341. 1085






1 Now, where is -- where’s your mother; do you

2 recall.

3 A. She was sitting right there.

4 Q. So it’s the -- on the lower half of the

5 diagram, it’s the seat up toward the left side,

6 correct.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. Why don’t you put a “JA” in

9 there.

10 And then you mentioned a person by the

11 name -- a doctor.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Doctor what.

14 A. Dr. Farshshian.

15 Q. Where was he seated.

16 A. Right there.

17 Q. Why don’t you just put a “DR” in there. And

18 that’s the seat right across from where your mother

19 was; is that right.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Now, who else was on the plane.

22 A. Prince, Paris, my sister, a lady named

23 Patty, and Grace.

24 Q. Where was Patty.

25 All right. Why don’t you just put a “P” in

26 there.

27 And then the lady you’ve identified as

28 Grace, the nanny, where was she. 1086






1 Okay. Why don’t you put a “GR” in there.

2 And by that, you’re referring to the top

3 part of the plane, correct.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Now, where was your sister Davellin.

6 A. She was right there.

7 Q. Okay. Why don’t you put a “DA” there.

8 A. The pen is starting to run out. Wait.

9 There it goes. Never mind.

10 MR. ZONEN: It’s just the surface.

11 MR. SNEDDON: The surface. All right.

12 Q. Did it work.

13 A. Yeah, it’s working now.

14 Q. And next to Davellin was who.

15 A. Paris.

16 Q. Who.

17 A. Paris.

18 Q. All right. Just put a “PA” in there, if you

19 would.

20 Now, during the time that you were on the

21 plane, after you left Miami, did you ever get up and

22 move to any other location on the plane.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Where did you move to.

25 All right. You’re indicating in the blue

26 area.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And the seat the farthest to the left of the 1087







1 blue area.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And who was in that seat when you took off.

4 A. Aldo.

5 Q. All right. So would you please put “S-1” in

6 there.

7 A. The pen’s not working anymore.

8 Q. Just try it. I think it’s the surface, not

9 the pen.

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. Did it work.

12 A. No. But --

13 THE BAILIFF: Here. Mr. Sneddon.

14 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Let’s try this

15 one.

16 A. It’s working.

17 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.

18 THE BAILIFF: Uh-huh.

19 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Now, was there

20 a telephone on the plane.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Where.

23 All right. On your exhibit, put a “TF.”

24 A. “TF”.

25 Q. “TF,” where the telephone was.

26 Now, at any time when you were on the plane,

27 did you see your brother and Mr. Jackson drinking

28 anything. 1088






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What did you see.

3 A. I saw Michael with a Diet Coke can, and my

4 brother with a Sprite can.

5 Q. With a -- what kind.

6 A. A -- I don’t know exactly what brand it is,

7 but it was a soda can.

8 Q. Now, were you ever offered to drink out of

9 either one of those cans.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. By whom.

12 A. By Michael.

13 Q. And what did he say to you.

14 A. He leaned over and he handed it to me. I

15 thought it was Diet Coke so -- I didn’t want to be

16 rude, so I took a drink, and it tasted like the

17 smell of, like, rubbing alcohol. It tasted

18 really -- so I handed it back to him. And I asked

19 him what it was, and then he said it was wine.

20 Q. Did you drink any more out of that can

21 during this trip.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Did -- tell me what you saw your brother and

24 Mr. Jackson doing during the trip.

25 A. I saw my brother -- after a while he didn’t

26 feel too good. So my brother leaned over on his --

27 on Michael’s chest and he -- I saw Michael’s head

28 licking my brother’s -- the top of his head. 1089






1 Q. What do you mean.

2 A. He was just licking his head.

3 Q. How long did that last.

4 A. I don’t know. Six seconds probably.

5 Q. Did you notice any change in the behavior of

6 Mr. Jackson during the flight.

7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

8 THE COURT: Overruled.

9 THE WITNESS: Really weird.

10 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: What do you mean, “really

11 weird”.

12 A. Like, just didn’t make sense.

13 Q. Who.

14 A. Michael. And my brother.

15 Q. That telephone that’s on the plane, did you

16 ever see the telephone used during the trip.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. By whom.

19 A. By Michael.

20 Q. And what did you see happen. Or did you

21 hear anything, also.

22 A. He made a crank call.

23 Q. I’m sorry.

24 A. He made a crank call.

25 Q. What do you mean, “a crank call”.

26 A. He called someone and he --

27 Q. You have to lean into the phone there, lean

28 into the microphone, if you would. 1090






1 What is a crank call, to you.

2 A. To me.

3 Q. What does it mean.

4 A. Oh. Just when you call someone and hang up

5 on them.

6 Q. All right.

7 A. That’s what it means to me.

8 But what I saw Michael doing, was he called

9 up and he said he was having a consensus, and he

10 wanted to know how big her p-u-s-s-y was. And

11 that’s what he said to her.

12 Q. How many such calls did you hear him make.

13 A. Two, on the plane.

14 Q. Did your brother make any calls.

15 A. I don’t remember. He probably did.

16 Q. Did you make any calls.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Now, you mentioned something about a watch.

19 When was the first time that you saw your brother

20 Gavin with a watch.

21 A. It was at the end of the flight, and I saw

22 it on his wrist.

23 Q. Now, did your brother ordinarily have a

24 watch.

25 A. No, he never wears a watch.

26 Q. The first time you saw it was when you got

27 off the plane.

28 A. Yes. 1091
Back to top Go down
https://mjfa.forumotion.com
Admin
Admin



Posts : 6397
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-12-27

March 7, 2005 Empty
PostSubject: Re: March 7, 2005   March 7, 2005 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 12:41 pm

March 7, 2005 08-1

March 7, 2005 09-2

March 7, 2005 11-2

March 7, 2005 16-2



1 Q. Did you see it at all on the plane.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Where were you when you saw the watch for

4 the first time.

5 A. We were leaving. We were getting off the

6 plane.

7 Q. Now, did you see Mr. Jackson at any point in

8 time wearing a jacket.

9 A. Oh, yeah. That was at the -- Miami. When

10 he first opened the door, he had a black jacket with

11 a bunch of shiny stuff on his back.

12 Q. When your brother got off the plane --

13 A. He had that on also.

14 Q. Now, when the plane landed, can you tell

15 us....

16 Your Honor, I think we can put the lights

17 back on, if the Court would like, and we can take

18 this item off.

19 Okay. Star --

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. -- just -- we don’t need -- let me grab the

22 diagrams.

23 Oh, would you write your name on the bottom

24 of that diagram, please. “The diagram” meaning 341.

25 A. I’ll have to carve it in, because it doesn’t

26 appear. There you go.

27 Q. All right. When you got back -- when --

28 excuse me. When the plane landed, did you know 1092





1 where you were.

2 A. We were at a private airport in Santa

3 Barbara.

4 Q. And when you got off the plane, where did

5 you go. I mean, what -- physically, where did you

6 go.

7 A. We were heading for the ranch.

8 Q. And how did you get to the ranch.

9 A. By a stretch white Excursion limousine.

10 Q. Do you remember about how long it took to

11 get from the airport to the ranch.

12 A. 30 minutes.

13 Q. And when you got to the ranch, was it

14 daytime or nighttime.

15 A. Nighttime.

16 Q. And when you got to the ranch, what did you

17 do.

18 A. We all went to sleep. And me, Aldo, my

19 brother, we went to Michael’s room and --

20 Q. You’re going to have to lean into the

21 microphone. I can’t even hear you.

22 A. Me, Aldo, my brother, we all went to bed.

23 We all went to sleep in Michael’s bed.

24 Q. Where was the defendant, Mr. Jackson.

25 A. There also.

26 Q. Where did he sleep.

27 A. In the bed with us.

28 Q. Now, did you see -- when you got to the 1093




1 ranch, did you see where your mother went.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Pardon.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did you see where your sister went.

6 A. No.

7 Q. Now, I want to jump forward just a moment,

8 Star. Are you familiar with a person by the name of

9 Jesus.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And to your knowledge, who was Jesus.

12 A. He was part of security.

13 Q. And where did you meet Jesus.

14 A. At the ranch.

15 Q. And when was the first time you met Jesus.

16 A. After the Miami trip.

17 Q. And at some point in time after you got back

18 from Miami and you were on the ranch, did you leave

19 the ranch with Jesus.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Where did you go.

22 A. We went to -- I think we went to our

23 grandmother’s house.

24 Q. Do you remember who drove you.

25 A. Jesus.

26 Q. Do you remember what car you went in.

27 A. It was a Rolls Royce or something like that.

28 It was -- 1094





1 Q. A fancy car.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Now, here’s what I want to do. I want to

4 ask you some questions, Star --

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. -- about what happened when you got back on

7 the ranch from Miami, or you got on the ranch from

8 Miami, to the time you left the ranch with Jesus.

9 Okay.

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. Between that time period.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. During the time that you were there, from

14 the time you got -- that you went to the ranch from

15 Miami and the time that you left with Jesus, was the

16 defendant, Michael Jackson, on the ranch.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. During that time that you were on the ranch,

19 can you tell us where you spent the nights during

20 that period of time.

21 A. Michael’s bedroom.

22 Q. With whom.

23 A. With Michael, my brother, Aldo.

24 Q. And where did you sleep.

25 A. On the bed.

26 Q. Where did your brother sleep.

27 A. On the bed.

28 Q. Where did the defendant sleep. 1095








1 A. On the bed.

2 Q. And where did Aldo sleep.

3 A. On the bed.

4 Q. Do you remember who slept next to who.

5 A. It was -- depends on your point of view.

6 Q. Depends on the point of view.

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. Okay. Who slept next to you.

9 A. Aldo.

10 Q. And who slept -- and who slept next to Aldo.

11 A. My brother.

12 Q. And who slept next to your brother.

13 A. Michael.

14 Q. Now, between the time that you got to the

15 ranch from Miami and the time that you left with

16 Jesus - okay. --

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. -- did you drink any alcohol.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Do you remember on how many occasions.

21 A. I think so.

22 Q. Pardon.

23 A. It was -- it was a lot of times.

24 Q. And with whom did you drink.

25 A. Only with Michael.

26 Q. I’m sorry.

27 A. Only with Michael.

28 Q. Was there anybody else present when you and 1096






1 Mr. -- when the defendant were drinking alcohol.

2 A. Me, my brother, and Aldo.

3 Q. And where did you drink alcohol with Mr.

4 Jackson during that time.

5 A. Bedroom. His office. And the wine cellar.

6 Q. Can you describe where the wine cellar is.

7 A. It’s in the arcade downstairs, and the

8 jukebox thing covers the stairs.

9 Q. What did you drink when you drank with the

10 defendant.

11 A. Red or white wine.

12 Q. How many times do you think you were in

13 Mr. Jackson’s office and drank with him.

14 A. A couple times.

15 Q. And how many times do you think you drank

16 with him in his bedroom.

17 A. A lot of times.

18 Q. And the cellar.

19 A. Probably twice.

20 Q. Do you remember what Mr. Jackson drank

21 during these occasions.

22 A. Wine, with us. It was either red or white.

23 Q. Did Mr. Jackson have a term that he referred

24 to in connection with the wine.

25 A. He called it “Jesus juice.”

26 Q. Would you describe to us -- now, I want to

27 make sure we’re just talking about the time when you

28 got there from Miami till the time that you left 1097






1 with Jesus. Okay.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. Did you at any time, during that

4 period of time when you were drinking with the

5 defendant, Mr. Jackson, see him get intoxicated.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. How many times.

8 A. I don’t remember. But it was probably a

9 couple times.

10 Q. During the time that you stayed at the

11 ranch, did you learn where the location of the

12 alcohol was on the ranch.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Where.

15 A. It was in the wine cellar. And it was

16 also -- it was just in the wine cellar.

17 Q. I’m sorry.

18 A. It was just in the wine cellar. And there’s

19 some type of alcohol in a refrigerated area.

20 Q. And where is this refrigerated area located.

21 A. Right when you walk in through the back of

22 the house, of the main house, there’s, like,

23 refrigerators and glass doors. And it’s, like, back

24 there.

25 Q. And did you actually see the alcohol in that

26 area.

27 A. No. But I know there was some there.

28 Q. The wine cellar, how do you get into the 1098






1 wine cellar.

2 A. You need a key and you need to go through a

3 door.

4 Q. And did you know where the key was.

5 A. Not really. It was in the lounge. And I

6 know where it was. Whoever opened the wine cellar,

7 it was like -- it was Jesus or someone else.

8 Q. Were you ever in the wine cellar without the

9 defendant.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Now, you told the ladies and gentlemen of

12 the jury that when you were on the plane, you

13 overheard Mr. Jackson make some crank calls,

14 correct.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Were you ever present where any crank calls

17 were made from the ranch.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And where was that. Where did that occur.

20 A. Upstairs in his bedroom.

21 Q. And who was present.

22 A. Me, Aldo, my brother, and Michael.

23 Q. The defendant.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Tell us what went on.

26 A. Started making crank calls.

27 Q. Who.

28 A. Michael, Aldo, me and my brother. 1099






1 Q. And tell us, when you made the crank calls,

2 how did you pick the number.

3 A. Just dialed any number.

4 Q. And when people picked up the phone, what

5 was said.

6 A. I don’t know. I don’t know exactly what was

7 said.

8 Q. Did you ever make any of these calls.

9 A. I think so, yes.

10 Q. What happened if nobody picked up on the

11 other end of the line.

12 A. Michael would have us take a drink of wine.

13 Q. Who would.

14 A. If the phone number didn’t exist, we’d have

15 to drink a drink of wine, or he’d have us drink

16 wine.

17 Q. Did you see alcohol in Mr. Jackson’s

18 bedroom.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. On how many occasions.

21 A. Many occasions. Many occasions.

22 Q. Where was it, usually.

23 A. Probably on the floor, or around the dresser

24 somewhere.

25 Q. Do you remember how many particular

26 occasions that you -- that the four of you did these

27 crank calls. Was it on more than one night.

28 A. Yes. 1100






1 Q. How many nights.

2 A. Many nights.

3 Q. I’m sorry.

4 A. Many nights.

5 Q. Can you give me an estimate.

6 A. Seven. I don’t know exactly.

7 Q. Were all of these occasions where -- when

8 you placed the crank calls before you left with

9 Jesus.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did you -- during the time that you got to

12 Neverland Ranch and the time that you left with

13 Jesus, did you see your mother at all.

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did you see her out around the grounds at

16 all.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did you visit her at all.

19 A. A couple times.

20 Q. Where did you visit her.

21 A. In her guest room, guest unit.

22 Q. Now, from the time that you arrived at the

23 ranch from Miami till the time you left with

24 Jesus - okay. --

25 A. Uh-huh.

26 Q. I showed you a photograph of a person that

27 you’ve identified as the person you knew as Dieter.

28 A. Yes. 1101






1 Q. Did you ever see Dieter at the ranch.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And the person who you identified as Ronald.

4 Did you ever see Ronald at the ranch.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And the person you identified as Tyson,

7 Frank Tyson, did you ever see him at the ranch.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Now, during the time that you were at the

10 ranch, when you got there until the time you two

11 left with Jesus, did you go to school.

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you do any homework.

14 A. No.

15 Q. What did you do.

16 A. Nothing. We -- nothing.

17 Q. What time did you ordinarily go to bed.

18 A. 2:00 in the morning, and 3:00. It was

19 really late at night.

20 Q. Did you see -- while you were at the ranch,

21 between the time you arrived there from Miami till

22 the time that you left with Jesus, did you see the

23 defendant, Mr. Jackson, with either Dieter or

24 Ronald.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. On how many occasions.

27 A. Probably saw him about three occasions.

28 Q. And were both Dieter and Ronald with 1102






1 Mr. Jackson, or was it just one of them.

2 A. I think it was both of them.

3 Q. Do you recall where you saw them.

4 A. In his bedroom, in a guest unit, and in his

5 office.

6 Q. Now, did you ever have any -- during the

7 same time frame - okay. - did you have any contact

8 with Dieter.

9 A. No. I don’t think so.

10 Q. Did the subject matter of your brother’s

11 watch ever come up during this time.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Tell the jury what happened in that regard.

14 A. He pulled us into a guest unit.

15 Q. Who’s “he”.

16 A. Dieter.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. And he said that he wanted to take the --

19 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

20 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, it’s offered as --

21 under 2 -- 1223.

22 THE COURT: All right. I’ll admit it

23 conditionally, as I have other hearsay statements.

24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Go ahead.

25 A. Okay. So he said that he wanted to take

26 back the watch and put it in a safe, so when he

27 turns 18 he could take it out.

28 Q. And were you present -- what did your 1103






1 brother say.

2 A. He said, “No.”

3 Q. Were you able to see the relationship

4 between your mother and Dieter and Ronald.

5 A. What do you mean.

6 Q. Did you see any interaction between them,

7 between your mother and Dieter and Ronald.

8 A. I don’t think so.

9 Q. Did you -- during this period of time, from

10 the time you arrived from Miami until the time that

11 you left with Jesus, did the subject matter of you

12 participating in a video interview come up.

13 A. They wanted -- they wanted us to only say

14 good things about Michael.

15 Q. Who’s that.

16 A. Dieter was telling me and my -- my mom, my

17 brother, my sister and me, they only wanted us to

18 say good things about Michael.

19 Q. Did you ever see anything written down.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Where. Where were you when you saw that.

22 A. I was in the guest unit.

23 Q. And who was present.

24 A. Dieter, me and my mom and my brother, my

25 sister.

26 Q. Now, do you remember -- do you remember

27 leaving with Jesus.

28 A. Yes. 1104






1 Q. All right. And tell the jury what time you

2 left and under what circumstances.

3 A. It was really late at night. It was really

4 late at night, and it was spontaneous. He just --

5 he pulled around the car and we left.

6 Q. Now, where were all your clothes prior to

7 leaving.

8 A. In the room.

9 Q. What room.

10 A. Guest unit.

11 Q. Your clothes were in the guest unit.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. So you gathered up your belongings, you got

14 in the car and you left. Where did you go.

15 A. To my grandma’s house.

16 Q. Now, at the time that you were at the ranch

17 before you left with Jesus, were you -- did you

18 personally -- not what somebody else said, but did

19 you personally hear anybody threaten anyone.

20 A. When I was trying to head to my -- when I

21 was trying to head to my mom’s guest unit, Frank

22 approached me, and he was -- he was -- I don’t

23 remember what I was trying to do, but I was trying

24 to go to my mom’s guest unit, and Frank was telling

25 me that he has ways that my grand --

26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

27 MR. SNEDDON: Same offer, Your Honor.

28 THE COURT: All right. This is conditionally 1105






1 admitted under the previous instruction.

2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Go ahead. You can tell us,

3 please.

4 A. He was saying that he has ways that my

5 grandparents could disappear.

6 Q. And that was told to you personally.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you tell that to anybody else.

9 A. No.

10 Q. Now, did you ever go back to the ranch after

11 that.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. So I want to talk about now, I want

14 to talk about some events that occurred from the

15 time that you left the ranch with Jesus till the

16 time you went back.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. Okay. Do you -- where did you spend that

19 time.

20 A. At my grandma’s house.

21 Q. Were you ever over at Jay Jackson’s house.

22 A. I don’t remember.

23 Q. Do you remember an occasion where a private

24 investigator came to Mr. Jackson’s house and there

25 was an interview with you and the family.

26 A. Yes.

27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

28 THE COURT: Overruled. The answer was, 1106






1 “Yes.” Next question.

2 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Can you tell us when you

3 believe that to have occurred.

4 A. Oh, it was probably a couple days after we

5 came back from the ranch the first time.

6 Q. And were you present during that

7 conversation.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And did you participate in that

10 conversation.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Now, you said -- I believe you just said you

13 went back to the ranch.

14 A. No, when we came back from the ranch.

15 Q. When you came back from the ranch. Did you

16 ever go back to the ranch.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Do you remember who you were with when you

19 went back to the ranch.

20 A. No, I don’t remember.

21 Q. You went back by yourself.

22 A. No, I went back with my -- my brother, my

23 sister and -- I don’t think -- I don’t know. I

24 think it was --

25 Q. I’m sorry, you’re going to have to lean into

26 the mike.

27 A. I think it was my brother, my sister, me and

28 my mom. 1107






1 Q. Do you remember what time it was when you

2 got back to the ranch.

3 A. I don’t remember.

4 Q. Was it daytime or nighttime.

5 A. I don’t remember.

6 Q. Did anything unusual happen when you got

7 back to the ranch.

8 A. I don’t remember.

9 Q. The people you’ve identified as Dieter and

10 Ronald --

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. -- do you remember whether or not they were

13 at the ranch when you got back.

14 A. Yes, they were there.

15 Q. When you got back to the ranch, where did

16 you go that night. Where did you sleep that night.

17 A. Michael’s room.

18 Q. All right. And who else was there.

19 A. My brother, Michael. I don’t -- Aldo.

20 Q. Pardon.

21 A. Aldo.

22 Q. Now, you -- you left the ranch again,

23 correct. Do you remember the next time you left the

24 ranch.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. What was the reason you left.

27 A. To do a rebuttal.

28 Q. And who did you leave with. 1108






1 A. Hamid.

2 Q. And do you know where you went.

3 A. We went to his house.

4 Q. By “his house,” you mean who.

5 A. Hamid’s house.

6 Q. And who else was with you in the car besides

7 you and Hamid.

8 A. My brother and my sister.

9 Q. When you got to Hamid’s house, what did you

10 do.

11 A. Me and my brother, we sat down, we started

12 playing video games.

13 Q. Was there anybody else there at the time

14 that you arrived besides you and your brother and

15 your sister and Hamid.

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did anybody else arrive after that.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Who arrived after that.

20 A. Vinnie, my mom, other people.

21 Q. Do you remember the names of any of those

22 people.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you remember how many there were.

25 A. A lot.

26 Q. Now, you said you and your brother were

27 playing video games. What room were you in.

28 A. The living room. 1109






1 Q. And do you recall the filming -- the actual

2 filming that occurred later. Was it in that room or

3 a different room.

4 A. It was in that room.

5 Q. And when your mother arrived, where was your

6 mother. Was she in that room or another room.

7 A. She was -- she was in another room.

8 Q. With you.

9 A. What do you mean. Like --

10 Q. I couldn’t hear you.

11 A. At what time.

12 Q. When she first got there, where was she.

13 A. She was where the pool table was.

14 Q. Is that in the living room or another room.

15 A. That’s another room.

16 Q. And so she was in there. How long was she

17 in there.

18 A. I don’t know.

19 Q. You weren’t in there, right.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Now, before you left the ranch -- before you

22 left the ranch with Hamid to go to his house

23 - okay. - could you tell me whether or not Dieter or

24 Ronald were there.

25 A. They were there.

26 Q. Can you tell me whether or not you had any

27 meeting with -- or conversation with them.

28 A. Yes, we had a conversation with them. 1110






1 Q. And what did -- let’s talk about Dieter.

2 Who was doing the talking.

3 A. Dieter.

4 Q. What did he say.

5 A. He was telling me just to say only good

6 things and -- about Michael.

7 Q. Who else was present during that

8 conversation.

9 A. My brother, my sister, my mom.

10 Q. Okay. You’re at Hamid’s house and you’re

11 about ready to -- for the filming. Do you remember

12 what time it was when you got to Hamid’s.

13 A. 1:00 in the morning, when we first got

14 there.

15 Q. And do you remember the filming.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Were you in the whole film.

18 A. I think so.

19 Q. Now, the things that you said on the film,

20 the rebuttal film - okay.

21 A. Okay.

22 Q. You have to indicate “Yes” or “No.”

23 A. Oh, yes.

24 Q. There’s a statement in there that the

25 defendant, Mr. Jackson, helped you do your homework.

26 Was that true.

27 A. No.

28 Q. And there’s a statement in there that you 1111






1 always had his telephone number so you could get

2 ahold of him. Is that true.

3 A. No.

4 Q. How did you feel about Mr. Jackson at the

5 time you participated in this rebuttal film.

6 A. I don’t remember. Probably at that point I

7 thought he was an okay guy.

8 Q. Now, after the film, do you remember about

9 what time it was when you left.

10 A. 3:00 in the morning.

11 Q. Where did you go.

12 A. To Major Jackson’s house. Jay Jackson’s.

13 Q. Who took you there.

14 A. Vinnie.

15 Q. And who was with you when you went there.

16 A. Me, my brother, my sister and my mom.

17 Q. Do you remember meeting some ladies from

18 the -- social workers.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And when did that happen.

21 A. The next morning.

22 Q. And where did it happen.

23 A. At the apartment.

24 Q. At whose apartment.

25 A. Jay’s apartment.

26 Q. And do you remember about what time it was

27 when that happened.

28 A. Probably 10:00 a.m. 1112






1 Q. And who -- that morning, were there other

2 people there besides the social workers.

3 A. My mom.

4 Q. Who else.

5 A. My brother, my sister and me.

6 Q. Anybody else.

7 A. Well, in the beginning of the morning, there

8 was a, like, bodyguard sent by Michael or something.

9 And he had a tape-recorder. And Aja was there also.

10 Q. And Aja is Chris Tucker’s fiancee --

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. -- at the time.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Had you ever met this bodyguard before.

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you remember what his name was at all.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Would you describe him for us, please.

19 A. Big.

20 Q. You say he had a tape-recorder. How do you

21 know that.

22 A. He had it in his -- I believe it was his

23 left hand.

24 Q. Did you ever see him talk to your mother.

25 A. He said that someone wanted her to have

26 this, or something.

27 Q. Were you present when that occurred.

28 A. Yes. 1113






1 Q. You heard him say that.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did you hear what your mother said.

4 A. No. I don’t remember what my mom said. But

5 the -- but the three ladies said that she can’t have

6 that, and they both need to wait downstairs.

7 Q. They both had to wait downstairs. Who are

8 “they”.

9 A. Aja and the guy.

10 Q. Did they leave the room --

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. -- at some point.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Did you ever see the tape-recorder after

15 that.

16 A. No. I never saw him after that.

17 Q. And then you had an interview with the

18 ladies from -- the three social workers.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Now, when you had the interview with the

21 social workers, was everybody in the same room or

22 did they take people separately.

23 A. Everyone was in the same room.

24 Q. And do you remember any conversations with

25 the social workers about what you said to them.

26 A. Not really. I don’t remember what I exactly

27 said.

28 Q. Do you remember the topics that were covered 1114






1 by the questions.

2 A. I think everyone was wondering whether --

3 no, I don’t remember.

4 Q. Well, take your time.

5 A. I don’t remember.

6 Q. Was everything you told them the truth.

7 A. No, not exactly.

8 Q. What do you mean, “not exactly”.

9 A. Like -- I don’t know. Just, like, he

10 never -- he never really helped us with our

11 homework. He -- can’t think of another example.

12 Q. During the time -- during the entire time

13 that you were at Neverland Ranch, from the time you

14 got there from Miami till the time you left for the

15 very last time - okay. - from that time period, did

16 you ever see your mother in Michael Jackson’s

17 bedroom.

18 A. No. She never left her guest unit.

19 Q. So how did she eat.

20 A. I don’t know. There’s a couple times I

21 brought her some food I made her, but --

22 Q. Did you ever tell your mom the code to get

23 into Michael Jackson’s bedroom.

24 A. No. She never asked.

25 Q. To your knowledge, did you ever see your

26 sister Davellin sleep in that main residence/house.

27 A. No.

28 Q. To your knowledge, did your sister Davellin 1115






1 ever have a friend of hers that went to school with

2 her up at the ranch during this period of time.

3 A. Never.

4 Q. Now, during the time that you knew Mr.

5 Jackson, did he used to call you “Star”.

6 A. No. No.

7 Q. What did he call you.

8 A. “Blow Hole.”

9 Q. “Blow Hole”.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And when he talked to Gavin, did he call

12 Gavin “Gavin”.

13 A. Yes, he called him “Apple Head” or

14 “Doo-Doo.”

15 Q. And did you have a name that you called the

16 defendant.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did you ever -- anybody refer to him as

19 “Michael” or “Michael Daddy,” or “Daddy”.

20 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

21 THE COURT: Overruled.

22 THE WITNESS: My brother called him “Daddy.”

23 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Did you hear him do that on

24 more than one occasion.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. How many.

27 A. I know it was more than twice.

28 Q. Now, after the -- excuse me. After you had 1116






1 the interview with the social workers - okay. --

2 A. Okay.

3 Q. -- where did you go.

4 A. Me, me brother, my sister went with Aja back

5 to the ranch.

6 Q. And your mother.

7 A. I think she stood behind.

8 Q. Okay. Now, I would like to show you a few

9 more photographs at this point, if we could.

10 All right. I’m going to start with a couple

11 of photographs that are already in evidence. And

12 I’m going to show you a photograph marked as

13 People’s No. 30. And tell the ladies and gentlemen

14 of the jury who that is.

15 A. That’s Jesus.

16 Q. And -- let me just leave these here, and

17 I’ll go get them and ask you some questions.

18 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Can we switch to the PC,

19 Your Honor. Thank you.

20 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. So the

21 person -- that’s the person that took you to your

22 grandparents’ place.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Now, let’s look at the next one, No. 29.

25 Who is that.

26 A. That’s Hamid.

27 Q. Do you remember where it was that you met

28 Hamid for the very first time. 1117






1 A. Can’t remember.

2 Q. All right. Why don’t you turn that over,

3 then.

4 And the next one is 193. Is that the number

5 on it.

6 A. It’s 194.

7 Q. 194. All right. What is that.

8 A. That’s not the picture I’m looking at.

9 Q. I’m sorry.

10 A. 194.

11 Q. What about it.

12 A. That’s not the picture.

13 Q. What’s the number.

14 A. That one, that’s it.

15 Q. That’s 194.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Okay. What is that.

18 A. This is Hamid’s living room and this is

19 where we did the videotaping.

20 Q. All right. You were in here playing video

21 games.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Where.

24 A. Right there. Right there.

25 Q. Were you playing it on the T.V..

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. So the T.V. that’s located on the far

28 left-hand corner of that exhibit, correct. 1118






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. 194.

3 Now, where is the area where the filming was

4 done.

5 A. All in this area.

6 Q. You’re indicating where the glass doors are

7 and the farthest of the two rugs.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Now, is -- all right. Let’s go to the last

10 photograph. Before -- it’s already on the board.

11 Do you recognize that.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What number is that.

14 A. 193.

15 Q. And 193, is that an accurate depiction of

16 the pool table room.

17 A. Yes.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, 193 is not in

19 evidence. Ask that it be admitted.

20 MR. MESEREAU: No objection.

21 THE COURT: It’s admitted.

22 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And where is the -- where

23 is the -- can you see in that photograph the room

24 where the video took place.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And “that photograph” being 193.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Would you show the ladies and gentlemen of 1119






1 the jury.

2 So it’s through the opening there where the

3 rug is shown on the far left-hand side, correct.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. All right.

6 MR. SNEDDON: Counsel. I just have a few

7 more.

8 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

9 table.)

10 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, could we black

11 out the screen for just a moment.

12 Thank you.

13 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

14 table.)

15 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to hand you

16 those.

17 All right. Would you please pull up the

18 photograph up there that has the number “125” on it.

19 Do you see that.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Do you recognize that.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Tell me what it is.

24 A. That’s the hotel that we stood at while we

25 were getting our passports and visas.

26 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, could we go to

27 “Input 1”.

28 Thank you. 1120






1 Q. And who were you there with.

2 A. Frank, Vinnie, and a guy named Johnny. And

3 my mom, my brother and my sister.

4 Q. And who was in the room with you.

5 A. My mom, my brother and my sister.

6 Q. And the guy Johnny, where was he.

7 A. He was in the lobby.

8 Q. Do you know approximately how long you

9 stayed at this place, the Country Inn and Suites.

10 A. Four days, something like that.

11 Q. All right. Let’s see the next photograph,

12 which should be --

13 A. 135.

14 Q. -- 135. Do you recognize that.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. What is that.

17 A. That’s the hotel’s kitchen. Well, that’s

18 the room that we stood in. And that’s the kitchen.

19 Q. Okay. And then the next photograph, which

20 is No. 19 that’s in evidence, do you recognize the

21 person in that photograph.

22 A. That’s Vinnie.

23 Q. Do you remember where it was that you met

24 Vinnie for the first time.

25 A. It was at the taping at Hamid’s house.

26 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I think we can go

27 back to the regular lights, Your Honor.

28 Q. Now, you’ve told the ladies and gentlemen of 1121






1 the jury that you were at the Calabasas Inn for a

2 number of days.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What did you do there. Tell me what -- some

5 of the things you did.

6 A. We got our passports and visas.

7 Q. Did -- you say “we.” Who’s “we”.

8 A. My brother, my sister and my mom.

9 Q. Did you do that -- were you alone when you

10 did that or did somebody go with you.

11 A. Frank and Vinnie were with us.

12 Q. Do you remember where you went to get the

13 passports.

14 A. I think it’s -- I don’t remember where the

15 building was. But I remember where we got a pass --

16 our pictures.

17 Q. Where did you get your pictures taken.

18 A. At a Walgreen’s.

19 Q. Did -- were you with -- did you go to get a

20 visa.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And who went with you.

23 A. Frank and Vinnie.

24 Q. And anybody else.

25 A. My mom, my brother and my sister and me.

26 Q. While you were at the Calabasas Inn there,

27 did you go shopping.

28 A. Yes. 1122






1 Q. Where did you go shopping.

2 A. We went to some outlets. We shopped at a

3 Levis store, Club Banana store, and we shopped for

4 luggage.

5 Q. Did you know why you were shopping.

6 A. Because we were going to go to Brazil.

7 Q. And who told you you were going to go to

8 Brazil.

9 A. I think it was Frank. Because he wanted us

10 to -- he wanted it to be educational or something.

11 Q. Is that what he said.

12 A. Yeah, that’s what he was telling us.

13 Q. Did Frank say anything to you whether or not

14 the defendant, Michael Jackson, was going to go to

15 Brazil with you.

16 A. He said about four weeks after we were

17 there, then Michael was going to come.

18 Q. So it was going to be a long trip.

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. Do you remember anything else about the time

21 that you stayed in Calabasas. Did you ever go to

22 the swimming pool.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Why.

25 A. We never had time to. Well, we never went

26 to the swimming pool.

27 Q. Did you -- during the time you were there,

28 do you know where Frank and Vinnie were staying. 1123






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Where.

3 A. Down the hall from us.

4 Q. How do you know that.

5 A. Because we saw them.

6 Q. Tell us how that happened.

7 A. When we were -- when he set us up in our

8 room, we saw him walk back to his room.

9 Q. Did you ever see them on any other occasions

10 when they were in their room, or when you walked

11 past their room.

12 A. What. I don’t -- no.

13 Q. Okay. So when you came back -- so after you

14 were at Calabasas, where did you go after all that

15 was done, the things you’ve described.

16 A. We went back to the ranch.

17 Q. And who took you back to the ranch.

18 A. Frank.

19 Q. Now, at any time while you were at the

20 ranch, after you got back from this trip where you

21 were at -- not “trip,” but stay at Calabasas, okay.

22 Are you with me.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. Did the subject of monitoring

25 telephones ever come up.

26 A. Monitoring telephones.

27 Q. Telephone calls, yeah.

28 A. There’s a way that we could listen in to 1124






1 people’s calls.

2 Q. How did you know that.

3 A. Michael showed us. Showed us.

4 Q. When did he show you that.

5 A. I think it was after the Calabasas that we

6 stood at.

7 Q. Were you present when he did that.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Tell us about it.

10 A. You just push “speaker” and “mute” -- I

11 don’t know, you just -- he showed us one day. And

12 we were listening to the guards’ conversation.

13 Q. With who.

14 A. I think he was talking to another guard, or

15 somebody. He was talking to somebody. But I don’t

16 remember.

17 Q. How many occasions did you see that happen,

18 with Mr. Jackson.

19 A. Two occasions.

20 MR. SNEDDON: May I have one moment, Your

21 Honor.

22 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

23 table.)

24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Now, tell us,

25 where were these phones located in Mr. Jackson’s

26 room.

27 A. The master phone.

28 Q. The one that you’ve told us about. 1125






1 A. Oh. It’s located near the piano. On the

2 dresser near the piano.

3 Q. Now, you told us earlier that there was a

4 phone -- the time when you made crank calls --

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. -- where was that phone.

7 A. The phone upstairs.

8 Q. Upstairs where.

9 A. In his bedroom.

10 Q. So these are different phones.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Now, how did it work that you could overhear

13 somebody’s conversation.

14 A. You push the “speaker” button, you push

15 “mute,” and then you pushed on the green light.

16 Q. How did you learn that.

17 A. From Michael.

18 Q. Which of the two phones was it that you

19 could monitor conversations on.

20 A. The one downstairs.

21 Q. All right. Now, are you familiar with a

22 movie called “The Devil’s Backbone”.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. All right. Where was it the first time you

25 saw that movie.

26 A. Upstairs.

27 Q. Upstairs where.

28 A. In his bedroom. 1126






1 Q. Whose bedroom.

2 A. Michael’s bedroom.

3 Q. And how many times have you seen that movie.

4 A. Three times.

5 Q. And where did you see it the other two

6 times.

7 A. In his bedroom.

8 Q. Did Mr. Jackson ever say anything to you

9 about that movie.

10 A. There was one time, Frank was walking up,

11 and there was a girl on the movie -- or a movie, and

12 he just kept on saying “clitoris.”

13 Q. Who did.

14 A. Michael.

15 Q. Do you know what that means.

16 A. No.

17 Q. Do you know what it means now.

18 A. No.

19 Q. Do you know what it meant then.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Now, was there -- after you got back from

22 Calabasas - okay. --

23 A. Okay.

24 Q. -- was there ever an occasion where

25 anything else unusual happened between you and your

26 brother and the defendant, Michael Jackson.

27 A. Do you mean after staying at Cal -- what was

28 it. What was the question. 1127






1 Q. Yeah. Anything else unusual that you saw

2 about the defendant, Michael Jackson.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Pardon.

5 A. I don’t know.

6 Q. Do you ever recall an occasion where he

7 walked into the room and you and your brother were

8 on a bed.

9 A. Oh.

10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

11 THE COURT: Overruled.

12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just -- do you recall that

13 occasion, when you were sitting on the bed, and he

14 walked into the room.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury

17 what you saw.

18 A. Me and my brother were watching a movie, and

19 Michael walked up naked. And he walked to the

20 corner of the room, picked up something. Me and my

21 brother were grossed out. And he sat on the bed and

22 he told us it was natural, and then he walked back

23 downstairs.

24 Q. Did either you or your brother say anything

25 to him. Let me break it up, because I don’t want to

26 get a compound problem here.

27 Did you say anything to him when he walked

28 in. 1128






1 A. I was just grossed out.

2 Q. No, but did you say anything to him.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Did brother say anything to him in your

5 presence.

6 A. No.

7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; hearsay.

8 THE COURT: Overruled.

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: The answer was.

10 A. “No.”

11 Q. How long was it that Mr. Jackson was in the

12 room with you and your brother naked.

13 A. Probably about two minutes.

14 Q. Did you see anything else about Mr. Jackson

15 at that time.

16 A. No.

17 Q. When you say he was naked, what was he

18 wearing, if anything.

19 A. Nothing.

20 Q. Totally naked.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. So you could see his private parts.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Did you see anything about his private

25 parts, one way or the other.

26 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

27 THE COURT: Overruled.

28 THE WITNESS: What. 1129







1 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I asked you if you saw his

2 private parts.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Anything unusual about his private parts.

5 A. Oh, he had a hard-on.

6 Q. That’s what you call it.

7 A. Well, that’s what Dr. Katz called it, so --

8 Q. What do you call it.

9 A. Erection.

10 Q. Either way, that’s what you saw.

11 A. Yes.

12 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I think we can get

13 this in before the break, Your Honor, or at least

14 part of it.

15 Q. I’m going to show you a series of

16 photographs and ask you --

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. -- ask you to see if you can identify

19 these photographs.

20 Okay. Now, I’m going to ask you questions

21 about each one of these. All right.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. But I’m just going to ask you questions to

24 lay the foundation that they’re accurate, and then

25 we’ll discuss what they are later. All right.

26 A. All right.

27 Q. So, make sure you don’t tell us what’s in

28 the photograph until I’ve properly authenticated it. 1130






1 All right.

2 A. Okay.

3 Q. Thanks, Star.

4 Let’s start with the photograph that’s

5 marked as People’s 91 for identification purposes.

6 Do you recognize what’s depicted in that photograph.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Is that -- is the -- are the items that are

9 depicted in that photograph an accurate depiction as

10 you know them to be.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. All right. Why don’t you turn that one

13 over. And we’re going to have to do this through

14 all of them, okay.

15 The next one’s 93, I believe.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. With regard to 93, is that an accurate

18 depiction of the area as you know it to be.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And the next one is 92; is that correct.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Is that the right number.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. All right. And is that an accurate

25 depiction of the area as you know it to be.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. All right. And the next one is 90; is that

28 correct. 1131






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of the

3 area as you know it to be.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And the next one is what number. 69.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

8 you know it to be.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And 55, is that the next one.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And is that an accurate depiction.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And what is the number on the next one.

15 A. 58.

16 Q. And 58, is that an accurate depiction --

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. -- of the area as you know it to be.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. All right. And the next one is 158.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of the

23 area as you know it to be.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And the next one is 165.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. And is that an accurate depiction of the

28 area as you know it to be. 1132






1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And 71.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Do you recognize that.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Is that an accurate depiction.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. 72.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Is that an accurate depiction.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. All right. Turn that one over.

13 And 74, is that the next one.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

16 you know it to be.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. All right. Turn that over.

19 Now, the next two should be 75; is that

20 correct.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. That’s already in evidence. So just turn

23 that over for right now.

24 And is the next one 76. Correct.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. And that’s already in evidence, so why don’t

27 you turn that one over.

28 And the next one is 78. 1133






1 A. 77.

2 Q. 77. I’m sorry. I was just checking.

3 Do you recognize that area.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

6 you know it to be.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. And 78.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

11 you know it to be.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And 79.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

16 you know it to be.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And the next one, I believe, is 94, correct.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

21 you know it to be.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And the next one is 97.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. And then 95.

28 A. Yes. 1134






1 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area as

2 you know it to be.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And 96.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the area.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. Thank you.

9 That’s the last one, correct.

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, at this time I was

12 going to propose that we show those photographs to

13 the jury, but I see -- I believe it’s close to the

14 break time.

15 THE COURT: A few more minutes.

16 MR. SNEDDON: Do you want me to turn out the

17 lights and get started.

18 All right. Fine.

19 I move that all those be admitted into

20 evidence.

21 THE COURT: Any objection.

22 MR. MESEREAU: No objection, Your Honor.

23 THE COURT: They’re admitted.

24 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. We’re now

25 looking at the exhibit marked -- what -- do you have

26 91 in front of you.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. All right. Tell us what 91 is. 1135







1 A. It’s Michael’s downstairs bedroom.

2 Q. Now, do you see anything in that photograph

3 that is different than it was when you were there.

4 A. That photo wasn’t there.

5 Q. The photo against the far wall.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Of the child.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Anything else.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Okay. Let’s move to -- did we establish

12 where this was, 91, in the house.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Where is it.

15 A. It’s Michael’s downstairs.

16 Q. Downstairs to what.

17 A. Bedroom.

18 Q. Now, let’s move over to 93. Is that 93 that

19 you have in front of you.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. All right. 93, do you recognize that.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. What is that.

24 A. That’s the downstairs bedroom. Downstairs.

25 Q. Is there anything in this part of the

26 photograph that was different from when you were

27 there.

28 A. No. 1136






1 Q. All right. Let’s move to 92.

2 All right. Do you have 92 in front of you.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Is that the same one that’s on the screen.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. All right. Is there anything in this

7 photograph that’s different from the time when you

8 were there.

9 A. Or, wait a minute. That isn’t right. 92.

10 Q. Show me what 92 is.

11 A. That one’s 90.

12 Q. All right. Let’s go back one, then. The

13 next one.

14 Let me have that for just a second, Star.

15 (Off-the-record discussion held at counsel

16 table.)

17 MR. SNEDDON: It’s not in there. Okay. All

18 right.

19 Q. 92, I guess we didn’t get it into the Power

20 Point. So just do that on your own. Describe to us

21 what 92 is.

22 A. It’s the downstairs of Michael’s bedroom.

23 Q. Okay. Anything about that photograph, 92,

24 that’s different from when you were there.

25 A. Uhh --

26 Q. That’s a different photograph. Just tell

27 us.

28 A. Right next to the T.V. there’s -- there used 1137






1 to be, like, a jukebox thing.

2 Q. And it’s not there now in that photograph.

3 A. No.

4 THE COURT: All right. Let’s take our break.

5 (Recess taken.)

6 THE COURT: Go ahead.

7 MR. SNEDDON: And we’re going to continue

8 with the photographs. Thank you.

9 Q. All right. Would you tell us what No. 90

10 is.

11 A. It’s the downstairs of Michael’s bedroom.

12 Q. And is there anything different about this

13 photograph, People’s 90, than when you saw it when

14 you were there.

15 A. Should be, like, the music playing thing,

16 juke box. Where all the boxes were. And that’s it.

17 Q. Could you show the ladies and gentlemen what

18 area you’re talking about.

19 So it’s the area right next to the red seat

20 with the child upside down.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. So those boxes weren’t there then.

23 A. No.

24 Q. All right. Why don’t you turn that

25 photograph over.

26 And let’s go to the next one, which should

27 be People’s No. 69; is that correct.

28 A. Yes. 1138





1 Q. All right. Do you recognize People’s 69.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Is 69 the same one that’s up on the board

4 there behind you.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. All right. Now, tell us what 69 is.

7 A. It’s the downstairs room of Michael’s. And

8 that’s the master phone, right there. Right there.

9 Q. And that’s the one you talked about earlier

10 in your testimony.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. All right. And just to the left of that is

13 a doorway entrance. Do you know what room that

14 enters into.

15 A. It enters into, like, a bathtub almost.

16 Bathtub.

17 Q. All right. And is there anything different

18 in this photograph than when you were there.

19 A. The extra telephone wasn’t there.

20 Q. What’s that.

21 A. The extra telephone wasn’t there.

22 Q. So you’re talking about the one that’s to

23 the right.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. You see the all-white one on the photograph.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. All right. Let’s go to the next photograph,

28 if we can. What is the number in front of you. 1139





1 A. 55.

2 Q. All right. Will you tell us about 55.

3 A. That’s the cash register.

4 Q. Lean into the microphone, please.

5 A. That’s the cash register, and -- in

6 Michael’s room downstairs.

7 Q. All right. And through the door, what leads

8 through that room.

9 A. It leads to, like, the Jacuzzi tub.

10 Q. All right. Do you see anything in that

11 photograph that’s different than when you were

12 there.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Let’s go to the next photograph, if we

15 could. And is that No. 58.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. All right. Do you recognize 58.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Tell us about 58.

20 A. That’s the inside -- that’s --

21 Q. Inside of what.

22 A. Michael’s room. Downstairs in the -- it’s

23 the room all the way to the left, inside of it.

24 Q. Do you have a name for that room.

25 A. It’s probably a bathroom or rest room.

26 Q. Did anything occur in this room while you

27 were there.

28 A. There’s a black suitcase. 1140






1 Q. What about it.

2 A. It had pornography in there.

3 Q. In this room.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. All right. Let’s put that down for just a

6 second.

7 And the next number.

8 A. 158.

9 Q. All right. What’s 158.

10 A. It’s a close-up on the master telephone.

11 Q. Is this the telephone you were talking

12 about.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Yes. And is that -- anything different in

15 that photograph than when you were there.

16 A. No.

17 Q. All right. Let’s go to the next one. And

18 what is that.

19 A. It’s the same thing. But different angle.

20 Q. Now, can you tell us -- could you just

21 illustrate to the jury, using the laser, if you

22 would, how it worked that somebody could overhear a

23 conversation of another party.

24 First of all, how would you know somebody

25 else is using the phone, to your knowledge.

26 A. A green light will light up.

27 Q. Where would the green light light up.

28 You’re indicating on a row of buttons to 1141





1 the -- is that correct.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And then what would happen when the light

4 would light up. What would you have to do.

5 A. You would have to push “Speaker,” and then

6 you’ll push “Mute.”

7 Q. Careful with that razor.

8 A. And then you’ll push “Mute,” and then you’ll

9 push on the button that’s lit up.

10 Q. And then what.

11 A. And then you can listen to the conversation.

12 Q. All right. Okay. The next photograph.

13 A. 71.

14 Q. Yes. What is that.

15 A. This is downstairs, Michael’s bedroom.

16 Q. All right. And have you been in that room.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Is there anything different about that room,

19 as you look at it now, than when you were there.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Let’s go to the next one. What number is

22 that. 78.

23 A. 72.

24 Q. 72. Can’t read my own handwriting.

25 Tell me about 72.

26 A. That’s the stairway leading up to Michael’s

27 bed area.

28 Q. Anything different about that photograph. 1142






1 A. No.

2 Q. Than when you were there.

3 A. No.

4 Q. All right. Let’s move to 74. Do you

5 recognize that.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. What’s that.

8 A. That’s the stairway leading to Michael’s

9 bedroom.

10 Q. Is there anything different in that

11 photograph than when you were there.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What.

14 A. This wasn’t here.

15 Q. That little gate.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Anything else.

18 A. And -- that’s it.

19 Q. Okay. 75. Do you recognize that.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. All right. Tell us what that is.

22 A. This is Michael’s bed area.

23 Q. Now, is there anything in that photograph

24 that’s different than when you were there.

25 A. No.

26 Q. I’m sorry. I didn’t hear you.

27 A. No.

28 Q. Okay. All right. Put that one down, then, 1143






1 if you would.

2 76.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Do you recognize that.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. What is that.

7 A. That’s Michael’s bedroom.

8 Q. Is there anything different in this

9 photograph than when you were there.

10 A. No. Except the crib wasn’t there and the

11 computer wasn’t there either.

12 Q. What are you calling a computer.

13 So the item that’s just to the left of the

14 crib.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And the crib is in the far right-hand side

17 in the middle of the photograph.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Anything else.

20 A. No.

21 Q. All right. Let’s go to the next photograph,

22 77.

23 All right. 77. Do you recognize that.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Tell us what it is.

26 A. That’s Michael’s bedroom.

27 Q. All right. You’ve already told us that the

28 crib and the computer weren’t there. Is there 1144






1 anything else different in this photograph that’s

2 different than when you were there, in People’s 77.

3 A. All this stuff wasn’t here.

4 Q. What stuff. You’re talking about the items

5 that are on the floor.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. To the right-hand side of the photograph.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. I see in the back, there is what appears to

10 be some kind of a statue or a mannequin of some

11 kind.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Do you see that.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Was that there when you were there.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Was it in that location or in another

18 location.

19 A. It was in that location.

20 Q. Was there anything different about the

21 mannequin when you saw it than when it’s depicted in

22 that photograph.

23 A. It had hair.

24 Q. What kind of hair.

25 A. Braided hair.

26 Q. All right. Let’s go on to 78. Now, look at

27 that. Is that 78.

28 A. Yes. 1145






1 Q. I mean back there.

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. Now, anything else in this

4 photograph that you haven’t already told us about

5 that was different than from when you were there.

6 A. There used to be a computer table right

7 here.

8 Q. And what about the black part, the -- was

9 that there.

10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

11 THE COURT: Overruled.

12 THE WITNESS: No.

13 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: “No,” what.

14 A. It wasn’t there.

15 Q. Anything else.

16 A. The stuff in front of it, it wasn’t there

17 either.

18 Q. What stuff in front of it. Could you show

19 the jury.

20 You’re indicating the items at the bottom of

21 the photograph on the floor; is that correct.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Now, on this particular photograph, there’s

24 a screen. What appears to be a screen. Do you see

25 that.

26 A. Uh-huh.

27 Q. Do you know how that screen works.

28 A. It comes down. 1146






1 Q. Do you know how it comes down; I mean, how

2 you activate it to come down or go up.

3 A. Not really.

4 Q. Was that screen down the entire time you

5 were there or was it up on some occasions.

6 A. It was up on some occasions.

7 Q. All right. Let’s move on to the next

8 photograph. And that number is.

9 A. 79.

10 Q. All right. Now, 79. Do you see anything in

11 that photograph that’s different from when you were

12 there.

13 A. All this stuff wasn’t here.

14 Q. All right. Show us.

15 So the -- you’re indicating from -- was the

16 chair there.

17 A. No.

18 Q. And the paintings or photos, were they

19 there.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Those are the items at the bottom of the

22 photograph below the screen, correct.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Now, you told the ladies and gentlemen of

25 the jury that there was a computer table there.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Or a table of some kind.

28 A. Yes. 1147






1 Q. Could you describe to the ladies and

2 gentlemen of the jury what that table looked like.

3 A. It had drawers, and then it had an opening.

4 Q. Okay. How many legs did it have or --

5 A. Four legs.

6 Q. And what was on top of it.

7 A. A computer.

8 Q. What kind of a computer.

9 A. An old computer. It was pretty big.

10 Q. Sorry.

11 A. It was big.

12 Q. All right. Let’s move on to the next

13 photograph.

14 What’s People’s 94.

15 A. That’s a toy room.

16 Q. Okay. Is there anything different about

17 that than when you were there.

18 A. No.

19 Q. How about the next one. Is that 97.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What about 97. Anything different about

22 that than when you were there.

23 A. There used to be a rocking horse.

24 Q. Where. Right where that pinkish item is.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. Just below R2-D2.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. Anything else. 1148






1 A. No.

2 Q. Okay. The next photograph, what number is

3 that.

4 A. 95.

5 Q. Anything different about 95.

6 A. No.

7 Q. How about 96.

8 A. No.

9 Q. All the same. Anything different.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Okay. Why don’t you put that up, then.

12 Now, before we move on to the next area, I

13 neglected to do something earlier.

14 We can turn the lights on, Your Honor.

15 Your Honor, I -- oh, Counsel.

16 Okay. I’m going to hand you an exhibit

17 that’s part of the exhibit that’s already in

18 evidence that’s 260, and ask if you recognize that.

19 A. No.

20 Q. Do you recognize the person in it.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Who’s that.

23 A. Me.

24 Q. Were you present when the information was

25 filled out on that document.

26 A. No.

27 Q. Okay. I’m going to ask you a few questions

28 about it in just a second. 1149






1 261, do you recognize that.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Pardon.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Do you recognize the photograph of the

6 person in that document.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Who’s that.

9 A. Me.

10 Q. Were you present when the information was

11 filled out.

12 A. No.

13 Q. All right. I’ll have to ask you a few

14 questions now.

15 We’re going to change over to the Elmo, Your

16 Honor.

17 Now, 261 is an exhibit that’s in evidence,

18 Star. With regard to the writing on that particular

19 exhibit, did you place any of that on there at any

20 time.

21 A. No.

22 Q. Underneath your photograph, which is on the

23 left-hand side of that particular exhibit, is that

24 your signature.

25 A. No.

26 Q. On the area -- do you have your little red

27 thing.

28 A. Yes. 1150






1 Q. Okay. I’m going to ask you to use it.

2 Straight across from your photograph, all the way

3 over on the right-hand side, there’s a box. That

4 box right there, okay. And it says “Italy” and

5 “France.” Did you ever hear anything about you

6 going to Italy or France.

7 A. No.

8 Q. Okay. Now, let’s take the next document,

9 which is 261.

10 Now, the photograph, do you recognize the

11 photograph.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Who is that.

14 A. Me.

15 Q. And is that your handwriting on that

16 particular document.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Were you present when that information was

19 filled out.

20 A. No.

21 Q. Do you know what that document is.

22 A. Not really.

23 Q. All right. Thank you.

24 We can turn the lights on, Your Honor.

25 Okay. I have another exhibit I’d like to

26 have marked as 470 for identification purposes.

27 There’s no edges on it.

28 THE CLERK: Here’s another one. 1151






1 MR. SNEDDON: All right. For the record,

2 Your Honor, 470 is a clear plastic bag with the

3 number “122980” in white on the front of it. And

4 it’s been marked 470 for identification. I’ve shown

5 it to counsel.

6 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me, Your Honor. Could

7 I ask that the prosecutor and the witness be

8 admonished to follow your order with respect to

9 describing the contents.

10 THE COURT: Yes.

11 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.

12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to show you 470.

13 Recognize that.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What is it.

16 A. This is the suitcase that held all the

17 pornography in it.

18 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; move to strike.

19 THE COURT: It’s stricken. The pre-trial

20 order requires that you and the witness refer to

21 adult material as “adult material,” not the

22 conclusion.

23 MR. SNEDDON: Okay. I don’t even know --

24 THE COURT: There are a couple words that you

25 could use.

26 MR. SNEDDON: I’m not sure he would know any

27 of those words, but I’ll -- could I have a second to

28 talk to him about it, then. I didn’t know that 1152






1 meant to the witness, because that would be me

2 telling him words, but -- okay. Let me just....

3 (Whereupon, there was an off-the-record

4 discussion held between the witness and Mr.

5 Sneddon.)

6 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Where was that

7 exhibit the first time you saw it.

8 A. It was -- it was in the downstairs, near the

9 bathtub that was like a Jacuzzi. It was near there.

10 Q. All right.

11 THE COURT: Just a minute, Counsel. I want

12 to tell the jury something about our last little

13 discussion, because I don’t want to leave this up in

14 the air like that.

15 The -- the reason that the witness and the

16 attorneys are to refer to this material as “adult

17 material” - or there’s another word I used, I can’t

18 remember now - instead of “pornography,” is that

19 “pornography” really is a legal conclusion that the

20 trier of fact is the person who decides what the

21 nature of the material is.

22 So by having the witness and the attorneys

23 refer to it in a somewhat neutral time frame, it

24 stops any conclusions from being made that would

25 bias the jury. That’s the whole purpose.

26 Go ahead, Counsel.

27 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Who was with you when you

28 saw that suitcase for the first time. 1153






1 A. Me, my brother, Aldo, and Michael.

2 Q. The defendant.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And who -- how was it that you were actually

5 shown that suitcase.

6 A. Uhh --

7 Q. Tell us what happened.

8 A. Just walked in the room and it was open. It

9 was -- there used to be a couch right there.

10 Q. Yeah.

11 A. And -- well, it wasn’t really a couch. It

12 was like a chair. And it was on there, and it was

13 open.

14 Q. All right. And then what happened.

15 A. Michael just started to show us magazines.

16 Q. You say “show” you. Tell us what he did.

17 A. He handed them to us.

18 Q. All right. And did you look at them.

19 A. Yes, with him.

20 Q. And did you look at them one at a time or

21 did everybody have a different one at a different

22 time. How did it happen. Tell us what happened.

23 A. We all looked at them one at a time.

24 Q. Did anybody make any comments about

25 anything.

26 A. No.

27 Q. Do you remember how many of them you saw.

28 A. A couple. 1154






1 Q. How long was it that you were there going

2 through them.

3 A. I don’t know. Probably ten minutes.

4 Q. Now, when did that take place, when you saw

5 these for the first -- that suitcase for the first

6 time.

7 A. When.

8 Q. Yeah.

9 A. I think after the Calabasas hotel.

10 Q. Now, I have one other exhibit that is No. 86

11 marked for identification purposes.

12 Now, I’m going to show you this in just a

13 second, but I want to talk to you a little bit more.

14 Did you ever see that black suitcase that’s

15 been marked as People’s 470 before. After that,

16 after the time that you discussed --

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Where.

19 A. It was upstairs in his bed area.

20 Q. Where.

21 A. In his -- where his bed was.

22 Q. And where in his bedroom.

23 A. Near the T.V.

24 Q. All right. And where were you.

25 A. What do you mean.

26 Q. Where were you in the bedroom.

27 A. On the bed.

28 Q. All right. Who was with you. 1155






1 A. Aldo, my brother and Michael.

2 Q. And where was the suitcase located. I mean,

3 how did -- did you ever look at the suitcase, inside

4 of it.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. What happened.

7 A. There was adult material in there.

8 Q. All right. But how did it get opened.

9 A. Michael pulled it out.

10 Q. All right. Tell us what he did.

11 A. He picked it up, sat on the bed and opened

12 it.

13 Q. And then what.

14 A. He pulled the magazine out and started

15 showing us.

16 Q. How many magazines do you think you saw that

17 time.

18 A. Four. Three. I don’t know.

19 Q. Did you look through the entire magazines.

20 A. No. It was probably a section or something

21 like that.

22 Q. What did you see in the magazines.

23 A. Nude females.

24 Q. What.

25 A. Nude females.

26 Q. Do you remember the names of any of the

27 titles of the magazines that you saw.

28 A. “Barely Legal” and “Playboy.” 1156






1 Q. Were there others that you saw besides that,

2 or are those the only ones you saw.

3 A. Those are the only ones I remember.

4 Q. I’m going to show you a photograph marked as

5 People’s 86 for identification purposes.

6 And that’s -- first of all, I’m going to

7 move that People’s 470 be admitted into evidence,

8 Your Honor.

9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; foundation.

10 THE COURT: We’ll take that up separately.

11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. People’s 86.

12 Do you recognize that.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of what it

15 represents.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. All right. I’m going to ask you some

18 questions about People’s 86.

19 And put it on the board, Your Honor. I move

20 it be admitted into evidence.

21 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Foundation; and

22 authenticity and relevance.

23 THE COURT: On 86.

24 MR. SNEDDON: Yes. I asked him and he said

25 it accurately depicted the materials.

26 THE COURT: I’m not sure. I haven’t seen

27 the --

28 MR. SNEDDON: In your book, it’s No. 86, 1157







1 Your Honor --

2 THE COURT: Okay.

3 MR. SNEDDON: -- in your photographs.

4 MR. MESEREAU: Also 352, Your Honor.

5 THE COURT: I don’t think that’s an adequate

6 foundation for that particular photograph, that it

7 accurately depicts what it is. You need a further

8 foundation.

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Star, the materials that

10 are depicted in that photograph, People’s 86, do you

11 see those.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Do you recognize any of those.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Where do you recognize them from.

16 A. The black suitcase.

17 Q. And which time.

18 A. The first and second time.

19 Q. Does that photograph represent the items

20 that you saw with the defendant, Michael Jackson.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. In his bedroom and in his Jacuzzi, or in his

23 bathroom.

24 A. Yes.

25 MR. SNEDDON: I move it be admitted, Your

26 Honor.

27 THE COURT: All right. That is an adequate

28 foundation. 1158
Back to top Go down
https://mjfa.forumotion.com
Admin
Admin



Posts : 6397
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-12-27

March 7, 2005 Empty
PostSubject: Re: March 7, 2005   March 7, 2005 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2012 2:00 pm

1 Your 352 was on what basis, Counsel.

2 MR. MESEREAU: He didn’t identify some of

3 what’s in that photograph, Your Honor, at all.

4 THE COURT: I found that the foundation is

5 adequate now. You had a 352 objection.

6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.

7 THE COURT: What was that.

8 MR. MESEREAU: Well, basically because he

9 didn’t identify it, and because after describing

10 what he said was there, and then looking at the

11 photo and saying it accurately depicts it, he didn’t

12 identify everything, I think basically it’s

13 prejudicial and irrelevant.

14 THE COURT: All right. The probative value

15 exceeds the prejudicial --

16 THE DEFENDANT: I can’t hear.

17 THE COURT: It’s admitted.

18 THE DEFENDANT: I can’t hear you.

19 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, it’s a little hard

20 for Mr. Jackson to hear you.

21 THE DEFENDANT: Please speak up.

22 THE COURT: Yes. The probative value of

23 Exhibit 86 exceeds any prejudicial effects, and so

24 it’s admitted.

25 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.

26 THE COURT: Sorry.

27 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Star, the exhibit that we

28 have on the board up there, the suitcase, and it’s 1159






1 open and displayed, are those among the items that

2 you saw with Mr. Jackson.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Do they represent the things that you saw

5 with him when he took the magazines out.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. All right. On the occasion that you saw the

8 materials from this suitcase that are depicted in

9 this photograph - okay. - who else was present.

10 A. My brother and Aldo, me, and Michael.

11 Q. Do you recall how many -- how much time

12 elapsed between the first time you saw the materials

13 downstairs till the time you saw them upstairs.

14 A. A few days.

15 Q. And did you see how the suitcase got from

16 downstairs to upstairs.

17 A. No.

18 Q. When you saw the suitcase in the bedroom,

19 upstairs, on the second occasion, was it open or was

20 it closed.

21 A. It was open.

22 Q. And where was it on the floor, or where was

23 it in the room.

24 A. On the floor.

25 Q. And where.

26 A. Right next to the T.V.

27 Q. So when you say “it’s open,” tell me what

28 you mean by “it’s open.” 1160





1 A. It was cracked.

2 Q. What do you mean by that.

3 A. It was cracked open.

4 Q. Do you see the briefcase in the exhibit as

5 we see it in the courtroom.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. All right. Was it open in that condition.

8 A. No. No.

9 Q. Was the lid up or down when you saw it in

10 the bedroom.

11 A. It was -- it was like this, standing up.

12 And it was cracked open.

13 Q. Oh, the briefcase.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Oh, I see. So it wasn’t in the same

16 position that it’s shown in this photograph.

17 A. No.

18 Q. Now, how about when you saw it downstairs.

19 A. It was like that, but it was closed.

20 Q. Like what.

21 A. Standing straight up, but it was closed,

22 leaning up against something.

23 Q. In the bathroom area.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And how did it get opened.

26 A. What do you mean.

27 Q. Well, you said it was closed. You looked at

28 the material -- 1161






1 A. The first time it was closed. The second

2 time it was cracked open.

3 Q. Okay. We can take that down.

4 THE BAILIFF: Do you want to go ahead and

5 push “Black Screen”.

6 MR. SNEDDON: Counsel.

7 THE BAILIFF: Judge, can you push “Black

8 Screen”.

9 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Hang onto that for just a

10 second.

11 All right. Do you recognize the photograph

12 I’ve just handed you, which is People’s 153. Is

13 that the right number on it.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. All right. Do you recognize that.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Is that an accurate depiction of the -- of

18 what it purports to represent.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. As you saw it when you were there.

21 A. Yes.

22 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I move that 153 be

23 admitted into evidence.

24 MR. MESEREAU: No objection, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: It’s admitted.

26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: All right. Star, would you

27 tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what 153

28 is. 1162







1 A. It’s a mannequin.

2 Q. And where was the mannequin located in the

3 room when you saw it.

4 A. To the corner.

5 Q. And with regard to this particular

6 mannequin, did you ever see anything, relative to

7 the defendant in this case, occur.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury

10 what you saw.

11 A. He was -- one time -- he was jerking around

12 and he grabbed the mannequin, and he was pretending

13 like he was having intercourse with it.

14 Q. And where did that occur.

15 A. On the bed. He was fully clothed. He was

16 acting like he was humping.

17 Q. I didn’t hear what you said.

18 A. He was acting like he was humping it.

19 Q. Now, who else was in the bedroom when this

20 happened.

21 A. Aldo, my brother and me.

22 Q. And do you remember how this -- how it

23 started or what happened, or were there --

24 A. I don’t even remember. I’m sorry.

25 Q. Did the defendant say anything while he was

26 doing it.

27 A. He was laughing.

28 Q. And how long did the whole episode last. 1163






1 A. Probably five seconds.

2 Q. Okay. Do you want to put that down.

3 Star, did you -- can you tell us whether or

4 not the topic of masturbation ever came up in any

5 conversations with the defendant.

6 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

7 THE COURT: Sustained.

8 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, “whether or not” makes

9 it an open-ended question. It doesn’t suggest the

10 answer. I don’t mean to argue with the Court, but I

11 mean --

12 MR. MESEREAU: It does not, Your Honor.

13 That’s leading.

14 THE COURT: Could you rephrase the question.

15 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, Your Honor. I can do

16 that.

17 Q. Star, did you ever have any conversations

18 with the defendant about any other sexual matters.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. About what.

21 A. Masturbation.

22 Q. All right. Will you tell the ladies and

23 gentlemen of the jury --

24 A. I don’t know how the topic came about, but

25 he was asking me if I ever masturbated. And I said,

26 “No.” And he said --

27 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. There’s no

28 question pending. He just went off. 1164







1 THE COURT: Sustained.

2 MR. SNEDDON: I’ll frame one, Your Honor.

3 Q. Okay. So did you have a conversation.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. All right. Now, would you tell the ladies

6 and gentlemen of the jury, where was it.

7 A. It was -- this was when another child was

8 here. His name was Rio.

9 Q. I can’t hear you.

10 A. This was in Michael’s bedroom.

11 Q. And who else was present, if anyone.

12 A. Rio, my brother, and that was it. And me.

13 Q. And to your knowledge, who is Rio.

14 A. I don’t know.

15 Q. Somebody you met at Mr. Jackson’s.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And do you recall when this was in terms of

18 before or after you went to Calabasas.

19 A. It was after.

20 Q. And do you recall whether it was in the

21 daytime or at nighttime.

22 A. Nighttime.

23 Q. All right. Would you tell us what was said,

24 what the defendant said.

25 A. He asked me if I masturbated. And I said,

26 “No.” He -- he -- then he said to me that,

27 “Everyone does it. You should try it. It’s okay,”

28 and all this stuff. 1165







1 Q. Were you the only one he asked that question

2 of.

3 A. Yes. Well, yeah. Yes.

4 Q. And when you said, “No,” did he say anything

5 else.

6 A. Yeah. He said, “It’s okay,” and “Everyone

7 does it,” and “You should try it.” That’s what he

8 said.

9 Q. Was there anything else said besides that.

10 A. No.

11 Q. Do you -- when you came back from

12 Calabasas --

13 A. Uh-huh.

14 Q. -- okay. - till the time that you left -

15 all right. - where did you sleep.

16 A. In Michael’s room. And towards the end, I

17 slept in the guest unit.

18 Q. And was there any drinking that went on

19 during that period of time.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And who was drinking.

22 A. Mostly my brother and Michael.

23 Q. You say “mostly.” Did you drink.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. On the occasion that you were there with --

26 in the room with Mr. Jackson and your brother, and

27 this person that you know -- is it Rio.

28 A. Yes. 1166






1 Q. -- were you drinking then.

2 A. I think so.

3 Q. Do you remember what you were drinking.

4 A. Just wine.

5 Q. Now, on the evenings after you came back

6 from Calabasas and until you stopped sleeping in

7 Mr. Jackson’s room, where did your brother sleep.

8 A. Michael’s room.

9 Q. During that period of time, was there an

10 incident where you saw Mr. Jackson come into bed

11 with you and your brother.

12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

13 THE COURT: Overruled.

14 You may answer.

15 THE WITNESS: Yes. I was --

16 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just -- just -- you can

17 only answer “Yes” or “No.”

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. All right. Now, you said there was an

20 incident. Where were you prior to the time that

21 Mr. Jackson came into the room.

22 A. Sleeping.

23 Q. Where.

24 A. On the bed.

25 Q. And where was your brother.

26 A. Right next to me.

27 Q. All right. We’ve seen that bed here in the

28 photographs. Okay. 1167






1 A. Okay.

2 Q. And when we’re looking straight at the bed

3 towards the back of the wall - okay. - where were

4 you located on the bed.

5 A. All the way to the right.

6 Q. And where was your brother.

7 A. In the middle.

8 Q. And were you under the covers.

9 A. Under the covers.

10 Q. Over the covers.

11 A. Under the covers.

12 Q. And how were you dressed.

13 A. In PJ’s.

14 Q. Do these PJ’s -- describe them.

15 A. Sweat pants.

16 Q. I’m sorry.

17 A. Sweat pants and a shirt.

18 Q. All right. And do you recall what your

19 brother was wearing.

20 A. Not really.

21 Q. Now, did you see -- tell us what happened.

22 A. I was sleeping. It was in the morning. And

23 I saw Michael come up, and I tried to say hi, but I

24 couldn’t. He got in bed. Started scooting over

25 closer and closer to my brother. And for a time he

26 didn’t stop until I moved, and then he stopped.

27 Q. And what happened when he heard you move.

28 A. He stopped. 1168






1 Q. Okay. Did you see whether or not he did

2 anything.

3 A. No. I was -- no.

4 Q. Okay. Okay. Star, we’re almost done.

5 Okay.

6 Now, some night when you were at -- at the

7 ranch - all right. - did you go up to Mr. Jackson’s

8 bedroom by yourself.

9 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

10 THE COURT: Overruled.

11 THE WITNESS: Yes.

12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Where had you been just

13 prior to that.

14 A. I was heading to the theater.

15 Q. Where.

16 A. I was heading to the theater.

17 Q. Why were you going to the theater.

18 A. To get some chocolate.

19 Q. How did you get down there.

20 A. The golf cart.

21 Q. Did you get some chocolate.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And what did you do when you came back.

24 A. I was heading to Michael’s room to go to

25 sleep.

26 Q. All right. Would you tell the ladies and

27 gentlemen of the jury what you did when you got to

28 the house. 1169






1 A. Um, I went through the door.

2 Q. Which door.

3 A. The first door. The first door. And then

4 the second door, it was kind of -- I don’t know, it

5 was, like, kind of locked. And so I pushed on it

6 till it opened, and then --

7 MR. MESEREAU: Objection, Your Honor. Could

8 we have a time. Vague as to time.

9 THE COURT: Overruled.

10 Go ahead.

11 THE WITNESS: So I went upstairs, and --

12 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Let’s go back. You were at

13 the door, and the door what.

14 A. The door was kind of locked, so I pushed it,

15 and it opened. So I went halfway to where the

16 computer table used to be, and I saw directly into

17 the bed. And I stopped. And my brother was outside

18 of the covers. And I saw Michael’s left hand in my

19 brother’s underwears and I saw his right hand in his

20 underwears, so -- so I --

21 Q. Let’s just stop there for a second -

22 okay. --

23 A. Okay.

24 Q. -- and ask you some questions.

25 Why were you coming back to the room that

26 night, after you’d gone down to get the chocolate.

27 A. To go to sleep.

28 Q. When you got to the point on the stairs 1170






1 where you saw your brother and Mr. Jackson on the

2 bed - okay. - when you’re looking at the bed, just

3 like we saw it on the photograph here - what side of

4 the bed was the defendant on.

5 A. Left side.

6 Q. And what side was your brother on.

7 A. Right side.

8 Q. And what position was Mr. Jackson in.

9 A. On his back. On his back.

10 Q. And what position was your brother in.

11 A. He was curled up, looking to the left. He

12 was curled up facing left.

13 Q. Now, would that be looking towards Mr.

14 Jackson or away from Mr. Jackson.

15 A. Away.

16 Q. Now, at that time, could you see what the

17 defendant was wearing.

18 A. Socks, underwears and an undershirt.

19 Q. Now, could you tell what kind of underwear

20 it was.

21 A. No.

22 Q. I mean -- I’m sorry.

23 A. No.

24 Q. With regard to your brother, what was he

25 wearing.

26 A. I can’t quite remember what he was wearing.

27 I’m not --

28 Q. Do you remember what you could see of him. 1171






1 Was there part of him that he didn’t have anything

2 on.

3 A. Yeah, I know he had a shirt and -- he had

4 his socks. I think he had pants or underwears on.

5 I don’t remember.

6 Q. All right. Now, you said you saw “his

7 hand.” Whose hands are you talking about.

8 A. Michael’s.

9 Q. All right. And where were his hands.

10 A. Left hand was in my brother’s pants and

11 right hand was in his pants.

12 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; asked and

13 answered.

14 THE COURT: Overruled. You may proceed.

15 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, when you say “in his

16 pants,” and who are you talking about.

17 A. Michael.

18 Q. All right. When you saw that, did you see

19 what, if anything, he was doing.

20 A. He was masturbating.

21 Q. What do you mean by that.

22 A. He was rubbing himself.

23 Q. And how could you tell that.

24 A. Because he had his hand in his pants. And

25 he was stroking up and down.

26 Q. Did you see anything else about the

27 defendant while he was doing that.

28 A. No. 1172






1 Q. What else did you see.

2 A. That’s all.

3 Q. Could you tell whether Mr. Jackson had his

4 eyes open or closed.

5 A. He had his eyes closed.

6 Q. Could you tell whether or not your brother

7 was asleep or not.

8 A. He was asleep.

9 Q. How do you know that.

10 A. Because he was kind of snoring.

11 Q. I can’t hear you. You’re going to have to

12 talk into that mike.

13 A. He was kind of snoring.

14 Q. Now, on this particular occasion, how long

15 did you stay there watching.

16 A. Couple seconds.

17 Q. Well, how long is that.

18 A. Four.

19 Q. What were the lighting conditions like in

20 the room.

21 A. The stairs were only lit, and the rest

22 was -- nothing else was -- had lights on. It was

23 just the stairs had lights.

24 Q. So you saw the photographs earlier that we

25 showed that had the lights on over the bed, correct.

26 A. Yes.

27 Q. Were those lights on or off.

28 A. Off. 1173






1 Q. When you looked into the room, did you see

2 any alcohol.

3 A. Um --

4 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

5 THE COURT: Overruled.

6 THE WITNESS: I don’t think so.

7 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: So what was your reaction

8 to what you saw.

9 A. I didn’t know what to do.

10 Q. I’m sorry.

11 A. I didn’t know what to do. I just went back

12 to the guest units where my sister was sleeping.

13 Q. What guest room did you stay in.

14 A. I don’t remember. But my sister was

15 sleeping in one guest room. And I went to the one

16 that she was in.

17 Q. Did you see anything like that occur on any

18 other occasion.

19 A. Yes, a second occasion.

20 Q. When.

21 A. It was probably just driving around; and

22 same thing.

23 Q. No, I meant in relationship to the first

24 one. How many days, if any, elapsed.

25 A. Two days.

26 Q. All right. Where were you that night.

27 A. Probably driving around in the golf cart.

28 And I came back -- 1174






1 Q. Now, you say “probably.” Do you remember.

2 A. Not really what I was doing.

3 Q. Pardon.

4 A. I don’t really remember what I was doing.

5 Q. All right.

6 A. I’m not sure. Walking in, the door wasn’t

7 locked. The door was closed but it wasn’t locked.

8 I went upstairs. The same thing was happening, but

9 my brother was on his back as well.

10 Q. You say “the same thing was happening.”

11 Tell me what was happening.

12 A. My brother was asleep. Michael was

13 masturbating while he had his left hand in my

14 brother’s underwears.

15 Q. And what kind of underwear was your brother

16 wearing.

17 A. I don’t know.

18 Q. Now, when you said you saw the defendant

19 masturbating, were the -- where were they on the

20 bed. What were the positions of the people on the

21 bed on this occasion. If you’re looking at the bed,

22 who was on the left.

23 A. Michael.

24 Q. And who was on the right.

25 A. Gavin.

26 Q. And you said that you saw him masturbating

27 again. What did you actually see occurring.

28 A. What. 1175






1 Q. The defendant, what did you see him doing.

2 A. Masturbating. Stroking up and down.

3 Q. Where.

4 A. In -- his thing. His private area.

5 Q. Could you see what the other hand was doing.

6 A. Moving. It was -- I don’t know how to

7 explain it.

8 Q. Well, can you just show us what you saw.

9 A. It was going like that (Indicating).

10 Q. And that’s the hand that was where.

11 A. In my brother’s underwears.

12 Q. So just for the record, just sort of got a

13 fist and opening it up and sort of like that.

14 A. Yeah.

15 MR. SNEDDON: Doesn’t help any, does it.

16 Sort of like semi closing and opening the hand.

17 Q. And the second time, how long did you stay.

18 A. Three seconds. It was less than the first

19 time.

20 Q. And where did you go.

21 A. Back to my sister’s guest unit.

22 Q. Did you ever tell your -- let me -- from the

23 point that you were -- you went back to the guest

24 unit and you were still on the ranch, did you ever

25 tell your sister what you saw.

26 A. No.

27 Q. Who was the first person that you told what

28 you saw. 1176






1 A. Dr. Katz.

2 Q. You never told your mother.

3 A. No.

4 Q. Or your brother.

5 A. No.

6 Q. On the second occasion, what was Mr. Jackson

7 wearing, if anything.

8 A. Socks, underwears and an undershirt.

9 Q. And your brother.

10 A. Uhh --

11 Q. You already told us what’s on the bottom.

12 Was he wearing anything on the top.

13 A. Yes, he was wearing an undershirt.

14 Q. What.

15 A. Well, he was wearing a shirt.

16 Q. Where did you go to sleep that night, on the

17 second incident.

18 A. My sister’s guest unit.

19 Q. Now, at some point while you were at

20 Neverland Ranch - okay. - did an incident -- well,

21 let me go back. Let’s go back.

22 Does your brother, because of his condition

23 with cancer, have to go to the doctor regularly.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And when he goes to the doctor regularly,

26 what does he have to do.

27 A. A urine sample. Blood sample. He has to go

28 to the kidney specialist. He has to go to two 1177






1 different doctors. I don’t know what they do.

2 Q. Now, in preparation for his visits to the

3 doctor - okay. - you said he had -- something to do

4 with urine. Does he have to collect that before he

5 goes.

6 A. Sometimes he -- the doctors would send home

7 a bottle for him to fill up and then bring back.

8 Q. Do you remember an occasion while you were

9 at the ranch that he had to go to the doctor and

10 take a urine sample with him.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Were you present when he and Mr. Jackson

13 discussed that.

14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading; and

15 foundation.

16 THE COURT: Overruled.

17 THE WITNESS: No.

18 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Were you present at any

19 time.

20 A. (Shakes head from side to side.)

21 Q. Okay. Did you see what happened to the

22 urine sample.

23 A. No. But I heard about it.

24 Q. No, I know. I just want to know what

25 your -- the night before your -- did you know when

26 your brother left for the medical appointment.

27 A. Yes.

28 Q. And that night before that, were you with 1178






1 him.

2 A. No.

3 Q. Pardon.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Not at all.

6 A. No.

7 Q. Where were you.

8 A. I don’t know.

9 Q. Did you see him leave in the morning.

10 A. No, I was probably still asleep.

11 Q. Can you describe the container. Let me go

12 back.

13 Did you see the container on the occasion

14 that he was going to the doctor while he was at the

15 ranch.

16 A. Yes.

17 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.

18 THE COURT: Overruled.

19 THE WITNESS: Yes.

20 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And where was it when you

21 saw it.

22 A. Where was the bottle.

23 Q. Yeah.

24 A. It was in the guest units.

25 Q. When your brother came back from that

26 appointment, were you there.

27 A. No.

28 Q. You weren’t on the ranch when -- did you see 1179






1 him when he came driving up.

2 A. No.

3 Q. When did you first see your brother after he

4 went to the doctor’s appointment.

5 A. I don’t remember. Probably later that

6 night.

7 Q. Do you know how long he was gone.

8 A. Probably about six hours.

9 Q. Do you know whether or not your brother was

10 with him when he came back.

11 A. I don’t know.

12 Q. Did -- was your sister at the ranch while he

13 was gone.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. So you and your sister were there.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You don’t remember what you did that day at

18 all.

19 A. No.

20 Q. Okay. Now, at this point, after this, did

21 you at some time eventually leave the ranch for the

22 last time.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And do you remember how many days or when it

25 was in relationship to this appointment that your

26 brother went to the doctor’s for.

27 A. I don’t know.

28 Q. Well, was it a long time, a short time, a -- 1180






1 A. A short time. A short time.

2 Q. What makes you think that.

3 A. I don’t know. It was --

4 Q. Is that just a guess.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. All right. Take a minute and think about

7 it.

8 A. I don’t know.

9 Q. All right. And how was it that you learned

10 that you were going to leave the ranch.

11 A. I heard from -- I think it was from my

12 sister, that my grandfather was ill. Well, they

13 said my grandfather was ill, but he wasn’t.

14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Narrative;

15 nonresponsive.

16 THE COURT: Sustained.

17 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. You learned it from

18 whom.

19 A. I learned of it from my sister.

20 Q. All right. And what did you learn.

21 A. That my grandfather was ill.

22 Q. Was that true.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did your sister tell you that.

25 A. Yes.

26 Q. So when you heard that, then what did you

27 do.

28 A. I thought he was ill, so I wanted to go 1181






1 home.

2 Q. And did the three of you leave.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And how did you get from -- from there to --

5 where did you go.

6 A. We went to our grandma’s house.

7 Q. Did you ever go back to the ranch after

8 that.

9 A. Never.

10 Q. And who was it that left that day.

11 A. Left home.

12 Q. Who was with you when you left.

13 A. My brother, sister and me.

14 MR. SNEDDON: Judge, I have about five more

15 minutes. I don’t know if you want to keep going or

16 you want to --

17 THE COURT: No.

18 MR. SNEDDON: Okay.

19 THE COURT: It’s 2:30. We’ll end the session

20 today.

21 I want to tell you, tomorrow, remember,

22 we’re going to have a shorter session. We’re going

23 to start at 8:30, and we’re going to end at 11:30.

24 I’ll tell you that so that you can make your plans

25 for tomorrow. I was a little vague about when we

26 were going to end last week, but I think the best

27 time is at our normal break, and we’ll just end for

28 the morning. And then we’ll start again on 1182






1 Wednesday with the regular schedule.

2 See you tomorrow. Remember the admonition.

3 (The proceedings adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)

4 --o0o--

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

26

27

28 1183






1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE

2

3

4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE )

5 OF CALIFORNIA, )

6 Plaintiff, )

7 -vs- ) No. 1133603

8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )

9 Defendant. )

10

11

12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,

13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby

14 certify:

15 That the foregoing pages 1002 through 1183

16 contain a true and correct transcript of the

17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled

18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at

19 said proceedings on March 7, 2005, and thereafter

20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided

21 transcription under my direction.

22 DATED: Santa Maria, California,

23 March 7, 2005.

24

25

26

27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304

28 1184



March 7, 2005 13-2

March 7, 2005 03-2
Back to top Go down
https://mjfa.forumotion.com
Sponsored content





March 7, 2005 Empty
PostSubject: Re: March 7, 2005   March 7, 2005 Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
March 7, 2005
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» March 14, 2005
» March 30 2005
» March 10, 2005
» March 4, 2005
» March 8, 2005

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Michael Jackson Fan Appreciation :: The Truth About The Allegations :: 2005 :: Court Transcripts-
Jump to: