1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION
4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE
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7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )
8 CALIFORNIA, )
9 Plaintiff, )
10 -vs- ) No. 1133603
11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
12 Defendant. )
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16 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
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18 MONDAY, MARCH 7, 2005
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20 8:30 A.M.
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22 (PAGES 960 THROUGH 996)
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27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 BY: Official Court Reporter 960
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
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For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
4 District Attorney -and-
5 RONALD J. ZONEN, Sr. Deputy District Attorney
6 -and- GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney 1112 Santa Barbara Street
8 Santa Barbara, California 93101
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12 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
13 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
14 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067
15
16 -and-
17 SANGER & SWYSEN
18 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. East Carrillo Street, Suite C
19 Santa Barbara, California 93101
20 -and-
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22 OXMAN and JAROSCAK BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
23 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard Santa Fe Springs, California 90670
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28 961
1 I N D E X
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3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as “SN” on index.
4 Mr. Zonen is listed as “Z” on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as “A” on index.
5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as “M” on index. Ms. Yu is listed as “Y” on index.
6 Mr. Sanger is listed as “SA” on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as “O” on index.
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9 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
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11 ARVIZO, Davellin 964-M (cont’d)
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28 962
1 E X H I B I T S
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3 FOR IN DEFENDANT’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.
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5 5000 Brad Miller DVD 983 985 (Remarked)
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28 963
1 Santa Maria, California
2 Monday, March 7, 2005
3 8:30 a.m.
4
5 THE COURT: Good morning.
6 THE JURY: (In unison) Good morning.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau.
8 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
9 Should I check this, double-check this.
10 Hello.
11 THE JURY: Hello.
12 MR. MESEREAU: All right.
13
14 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued)
15 Q. Miss Arvizo, you testified last week that
16 you recall a trip from Neverland with Michael
17 Jackson to a store named Toys R Us; do you remember
18 that.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And you testified that Mr. Jackson took you
21 and your brothers and some fans to Toys R Us, right.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Do you know approximately when that was.
24 A. I don’t remember when.
25 Q. And you did say that on the way Mr. Jackson
26 saw some fans and picked them up, and you all went
27 to Toys R Us together, right.
28 A. Yes. 964
1 Q. And Mr. Jackson paid for toys for everybody,
2 correct.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you recall anybody ever complaining that
5 they were being falsely imprisoned at Toys R Us.
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you recall anybody complaining that they
8 were there against their will, at Toys R Us.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Now, do you know what a sworn deposition is
11 in a civil case.
12 A. Kind of. Not really.
13 Q. Has anyone ever told you that a sworn
14 deposition is a procedure in a civil case where
15 somebody sits down and answers questions under oath.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And who told you that.
18 A. Well, I was sitting in the one that Gavin
19 took during the J.C. Penney’s case.
20 Q. And you were also sitting in the one that
21 Star gave in the J.C. Penney case, correct.
22 A. I don’t remember that. I was just sitting
23 with Gavin.
24 Q. Well, didn’t you tell the jury last week
25 that you know nothing about the J.C. Penney case.
26 A. I just remembered right now when you said
27 “deposition.”
28 Q. So you sat there in Gavin’s deposition in 965
1 the J.C. Penney case, correct.
2 A. Because he wanted me to be next to him, and
3 I held his hand.
4 Q. And your mother was there too, correct.
5 A. I don’t remember her sitting there.
6 Q. You also sat in Star’s deposition, true.
7 A. I don’t remember sitting in Star’s.
8 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
9 show you the page of the deposition transcript that
10 lists you as attending.
11 A. (Nods head up and down.)
12 Q. Could I show it to you.
13 A. That’s fine. I just didn’t remember. All I
14 remember is really sitting with Gavin.
15 Q. Okay.
16 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 THE WITNESS: Okay.
19 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to
20 look at that page.
21 A. No, that was the first time.
22 Q. Well, does it refresh your recollection that
23 you were present for Star’s deposition as well.
24 A. All I remember is the taping of Gavin’s.
25 I don’t remember Star’s.
26 Q. Okay. What -- my point is this: When you
27 told the jury last week you didn’t know anything
28 about the J.C. Penney case, that wasn’t correct, 966
1 right.
2 A. Well, when you said “deposition,” it
3 refreshed my memory. That was a long time ago. I
4 was, like, 11.
5 Q. Okay. Now, you also told the jury last week
6 you have no knowledge of Gavin having disciplinary
7 problems at school before he ever met Mr. Jackson,
8 right.
9 A. I know he talks a lot, yes.
10 Q. Well, that’s what you said, the only problem
11 you were aware of is that he was talkative, correct.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You also said to -- you were asked by me,
14 “To your knowledge, was he ever asked to leave
15 school,” and you said you don’t know, right.
16 A. I don’t -- no, I don’t remember.
17 Q. Well, you sat there in Gavin’s deposition in
18 the J.C. Penney case where he admitted that he got
19 in lots of fights and got thrown out of school,
20 right. You were sitting right there, right.
21 A. He’s never been thrown out of school.
22 Q. You heard him say it under oath, didn’t you.
23 A. I don’t remember. It was a long time ago.
24 All I remember, I was in my grandmother’s house, and
25 I was holding his hand, and they were taping the
26 deposition. That’s all I remember.
27 Q. Do you remember at the deposition Gavin was
28 asked, “Have you ever had problems at school where 967
1 you got into a lot of fights.” And he said, “Yes”.
2 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as asked
3 and answered.
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you remember Gavin
6 saying he was thrown out of school for fighting.
7 MR. SNEDDON: Object; asked and answered.
8 THE COURT: Sustained.
9 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling the jury
10 you never heard Gavin ever make a statement like
11 that at any time.
12 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’m going to
13 object as asked and answered, and ask the Court to
14 admonish counsel. He knows better than this.
15 MR. MESEREAU: I object, Your Honor, to the
16 colloquy.
17 MR. SNEDDON: I have a right to make a
18 record. And I -- I’m asking the Court -- this is
19 the third objection in a row that’s been asked and
20 answered.
21 THE COURT: Sustained. You may sit down.
22 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Are you telling the jury
24 today, under oath, that you have no knowledge of
25 Gavin ever being asked to leave school before he met
26 Mr. Jackson.
27 MR. SNEDDON: Object as asked and answered.
28 THE COURT: Overruled. 968
1 THE WITNESS: All I know is that he was very
2 talkative. I don’t remember. I’m not involved in
3 that.
4 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: I’m sorry, excuse me. I
5 interrupted.
6 A. I’m not involved in that. My mom is.
7 Q. Have you ever discussed with Gavin his being
8 thrown out of school for fighting.
9 A. All I know is he would get in trouble, so I
10 would tell him, “Just be quiet, Gavin. You don’t
11 need to talk back.” That’s all I remember.
12 Q. Have you ever discussed with Gavin his
13 problems with fights in school before he met Mr.
14 Jackson.
15 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as asked
16 and answered.
17 THE COURT: Overruled.
18 THE WITNESS: I don’t know. I don’t
19 remember.
20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Do you remember,
21 I asked you last week if you had ever discussed the
22 J.C. Penney case with Gavin or your mom. Remember,
23 I asked you that question.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You said you had not discussed it with
26 either of them, right.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. How could that be, if you attended those 969
1 depositions.
2 A. I’m not talking to them about it.
3 Q. Before.
4 A. No. I haven’t talked to them about it at
5 all. I’m just sitting there. I don’t know anything
6 about the case. I was just sitting there to comfort
7 my brother. He wanted me to be with him. I’m not
8 even paying attention to what he’s saying. I’m just
9 paying attention to how he’s looking. And that was
10 during his chemo.
11 Q. So you had never discussed the J.C. Penney
12 case with him before you attended his deposition.
13 A. No.
14 Q. And you never discussed the J.C. Penney case
15 with any of your family members before you attended
16 Star’s deposition.
17 A. Never.
18 Q. You never discussed the J.C. Penney case
19 with Gavin or your mom or Star after Gavin’s
20 deposition.
21 A. Never.
22 Q. And you never discussed the J.C. Penney case
23 with Star, your mom or Gavin after Star’s
24 deposition.
25 A. Never.
26 Q. You just kind of got there, silently
27 listened, left, and never talked to anybody about
28 it, right. 970
1 A. No.
2 Q. Okay. Now, you testified last week about
3 seeing Mr. Jackson and your brothers go into the
4 wine cellar, correct.
5 A. I saw somebody going downstairs. And then
6 when I was already in the wine cellar, I knew who it
7 was.
8 Q. Was that the only time you ever saw anybody
9 go into the wine cellar.
10 A. I saw several times people go down, but I
11 never really went. I always saw, like, open --
12 people going down, but I never really followed. It
13 was just that one time.
14 Q. Just the one time.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you described the --
17 THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. Mr. Jackson
18 needs to go to the rest room. We’ll take a break.
19 MR. OXMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
20 (Recess taken.)
21 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, would it be useful
22 to take care of a stipulation on a technical matter
23 while Mr. Jackson’s --
24 THE COURT: I think we need to wait till he
25 comes back.
26 MR. SANGER: Okay. Very well.
27 MR. MESEREAU: May I see Mr. Jackson, Your
28 Honor. 971
1 (Brief interruption.)
2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you recall, Miss
3 Arvizo, giving the Santa Barbara Sheriffs a detailed
4 description of the wine cellar at Neverland.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And what did you tell them.
7 A. I told them that I walked down the stairs,
8 and then you make a right, and there’s a room and it
9 has sleeping bags. And then there’s another room,
10 and it’s a way smaller room. And on the left-hand
11 side, there’s wine bottles on the wall. And then
12 there’s a -- I think there’s a counter in the room,
13 too, and cupboards.
14 Q. Did you tell them anything about sleeping
15 bags.
16 A. Yeah.
17 Q. What did you tell them.
18 A. That after you walk down the stairs and you
19 make a right into the room, and I think there’s
20 sleeping bags on the wall. I don’t remember.
21 Q. You told them about cubbyholes with sleeping
22 bags, correct.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Now, you’re telling the jury today that
25 you’ve only been down there one time, correct.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. The truth is, you’ve been down there many
28 times with your brothers without Mr. Jackson, true. 972
1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you recall being interviewed by the Santa
3 Barbara Sheriffs on August 13th, 2003, or
4 approximately that time.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you remember, you were asked when you
7 observed the wine cellar, and you said “many times”
8 during your visits to Neverland.
9 A. Well, many times I’ve seen it. But I never
10 went down there many times.
11 Q. How can you see it if you don’t go down the
12 stairs into the wine cellar.
13 A. Maybe I misunderstood the questions. But I
14 only remember going down there once and seeing it.
15 Q. Are you saying you never told the Santa
16 Barbara Sheriffs you’d been down there many times.
17 A. I don’t remember. All I remember is being
18 down there once and being able to see everything.
19 I don’t --
20 Q. Did you ever learn that your brothers had
21 been caught down there without Mr. Jackson, having
22 broken into the cellar and drinking.
23 A. I don’t remember that.
24 MR. SNEDDON: Object. It also -- excuse me.
25 Calls for -- assumes facts not in evidence.
26 THE COURT: Sustained.
27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, you’re aware that
28 alcohol is kept in the kitchen area, correct. 973
1 A. I don’t know.
2 Q. Did you ever tell the police there’s a
3 glass-like closure on a refrigerator that has
4 alcoholic beverages in the kitchen area.
5 A. I know behind, like, a glass cupboard
6 there’s some -- I don’t know.
7 Q. Did you ever see any alcoholic beverages in
8 that refrigerator area.
9 A. I don’t know. I don’t remember.
10 Q. Well, you’ve been in that area many times,
11 correct, with your brothers, right.
12 A. When I would go to eat myself, yes.
13 Q. And typically when would you go to eat by
14 yourself.
15 A. In the afternoon.
16 Q. And when you went by yourself, were you
17 easily able to get in the main house.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How did you get in the main house.
20 A. I would either ring for somebody to come, or
21 if I remembered the code to get into the main house.
22 Q. And how did you get the code.
23 A. One of the security guards gave it to me.
24 Q. And did you have any other codes.
25 A. No. That was the only one I had.
26 Q. Your brothers had codes, didn’t they.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. They had codes to the wine cellar, didn’t 974
1 they.
2 A. I don’t remember that.
3 Q. They had codes to Mr. Jackson’s room, didn’t
4 they.
5 A. I didn’t know they had that one.
6 Q. And they went up to the room without Mr.
7 Jackson present, correct.
8 A. Anytime Mr. Jackson wasn’t on the ranch,
9 they were with me.
10 Q. That’s not what you said last week, is it.
11 Last week you said that when your brothers were on
12 the ranch, they always left you alone, correct.
13 A. No. When Mr. Jackson wasn’t on the ranch,
14 they were with me.
15 Q. Well, you had knowledge that your brothers
16 were going into the main house when Mr. Jackson
17 wasn’t even there, correct.
18 A. When Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, they were
19 with me. There was no reason for us to be apart if
20 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.
21 Q. Well, you -- correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t
22 you tell the jury last week, “When I would visit
23 Neverland, my brothers would go off and, for the
24 most part, leave me alone”. Did you say that.
25 A. If Mr. Jackson was there, yes, I said that
26 last week.
27 Q. So you’re -- now you’re saying whenever
28 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there, all three of you hung 975
1 around together; is that right.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you go into the main house together when
4 Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.
5 A. Yes. To go eat and watch T.V., yeah.
6 Q. And how many times do you think you did that
7 when Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.
8 A. I don’t know.
9 Q. Many times, correct.
10 A. Well, they’re growing boys. They wanted to
11 eat a lot, I guess.
12 Q. And you visited Neverland many occasions
13 when Mr. Jackson wasn’t even there, right.
14 A. No. Not me.
15 Q. Well, you went there a couple of times with
16 Chris Tucker, did you not.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Mr. Jackson wasn’t there during those
19 visits, right.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And did you go into the main house with
22 Chris Tucker.
23 A. Well, with -- with Chris Tucker, who was
24 there, and with my brothers, yes.
25 Q. And would you simply grab food when you
26 wanted it.
27 A. Whatever was on the -- where the drinks
28 were. I wouldn’t go into the kitchen. 976
1 Q. Well, if you go in the main house, you walk
2 into a lobby area, correct.
3 A. When you go into the -- through the back
4 way, there’s glass refrigerators, and I would grab a
5 drink from there. But I wouldn’t go into the
6 kitchen area and grab stuff.
7 Q. Well, you have to go into the kitchen area
8 to grab food, don’t you.
9 A. To sit down, and they make it for you.
10 Q. But to go in on your own and to pick up food
11 in the kitchen area, you have to go into the
12 kitchen, correct.
13 A. Yeah, but I’m not going in there where the
14 refrigerators are and stuff.
15 Q. If you’re in the kitchen area, you have to
16 be near the refrigerators, don’t you.
17 A. But I’m sitting down. I’m not making it for
18 myself or going through things.
19 Q. But if -- you’re talking about sitting down
20 at the counter area. Is that what you’re talking
21 about.
22 A. Like the bench area, yes.
23 Q. And Mr. Jackson has buns and rolls and
24 things available right where you sit down, correct.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And right to your left is the refrigerator
27 area, true.
28 A. Towards the back area and to the left, yes. 977
1 Q. And there’s sliding doors, right.
2 A. They’re -- no, they’re pulling doors.
3 Q. How do you know they’re pulling doors.
4 A. Because I would open them and get a drink
5 once in a while.
6 Q. And your brothers would also, correct.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And you will find alcohol in those
9 refrigerator areas, correct.
10 A. All I remember is there was Yoohoos, juice,
11 different waters. I don’t remember seeing alcohol.
12 Q. But clearly your brothers would go into that
13 refrigerator area when Mr. Jackson wasn’t around,
14 right.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. They would go into the kitchen when Mr.
17 Jackson wasn’t around, right.
18 A. To get something, yes.
19 Q. And they would walk through the house when
20 Mr. Jackson wasn’t around, correct.
21 A. We wouldn’t really go into the main house,
22 because there wasn’t really anything else to do but
23 eat.
24 Q. Well, you have all kinds of rooms with toys,
25 games, all kinds of things in that main house, don’t
26 you.
27 A. But I’m not really interested in those kind
28 of little toys. 978
1 Q. Well, they’re not all little toys, now, are
2 they.
3 A. Mainly from what I remember, yes.
4 Q. Your brothers were caught on numerous
5 occasions in that house with Mr. Jackson absent,
6 right.
7 A. To go get something to eat, that’s all I
8 remember.
9 Q. Well, you described in detail to the
10 sheriffs what you saw in Mr. Jackson’s room,
11 correct.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You described in detail that there was a
14 lower level, a stairway, and a higher level,
15 correct.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You told the sheriffs in detail what you saw
18 on those various levels, right.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. That’s because you were in there on numerous
21 occasions, correct.
22 A. No.
23 Q. And you know that your brothers had that
24 code to get in there when Mr. Jackson wasn’t around,
25 didn’t they.
26 A. Yeah, but the outer door, that’s locked too.
27 Q. But they seemed to get into that also,
28 didn’t they. 979
1 A. Not that I remember, no.
2 Q. Well, you gave the Santa Barbara Sheriffs a
3 detailed description of Mr. Jackson’s bathroom,
4 right.
5 A. The one that’s inside the room, yes.
6 Q. Well, you had spent time in there, correct.
7 A. No. I never went to the rest room in there.
8 Q. How could you give a detailed description of
9 the rest room if you haven’t spent time looking at
10 what’s in there.
11 A. Because I was in the room the one time, and
12 I was just looking around. I had never been in
13 there. I wanted to see. And you just -- you can
14 look in and see what’s in there.
15 Q. When your brothers and you were at Neverland
16 without Mr. Jackson, did you go into the theater.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What did you do in the theater with your
19 brothers when Mr. Jackson wasn’t there.
20 A. Watch movies, get little snacks.
21 Q. What are the kinds of movies you used to
22 watch.
23 A. I don’t remember.
24 Q. Okay. How did you get the movies.
25 A. We would ask somebody from the front. I
26 don’t remember.
27 Q. Okay. But you had access to the theater
28 when you wanted, right. 980
1 A. Yes. It was open.
2 Q. No one ever told you you couldn’t enter the
3 theater and watch a film, right.
4 A. Not that I remember, no.
5 Q. Nobody ever told you you couldn’t have food
6 in the theater, popcorn, ice cream, sodas, whatever
7 you wanted, right.
8 A. Not that I remember, no.
9 Q. And you indicated that one particular -- you
10 first met Mr. Jackson approximately in the year
11 2000, right.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You indicated that you didn’t come back, you
14 don’t think, in the year 2001, right.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. You started to come back in 2002,
17 right.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When did Chris Tucker first take you to
20 Neverland, if you know.
21 A. In 2001. Because we didn’t meet him until
22 2001.
23 Q. And you indicated that at one point Mr.
24 Jackson had given your family a vehicle, right.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Were you ever in any discussions with Aja
27 Tucker about getting another vehicle from Chris
28 Tucker. 981
1 A. I know -- because we didn’t have no car at
2 that time. And Chris had told me, “I’m giving you
3 guys a Christmas present, and it’s Aja’s old car.”
4 Q. And you gave Aja and Chris your mother’s
5 driver’s license information, correct.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You gave it to them so the car could be
8 transferred into your mother’s name, right.
9 A. Yeah, they wanted it so they could put it in
10 my mom’s name.
11 Q. You never told them that Michael Jackson had
12 given your car a family as well.
13 A. Well, we didn’t have that car at that time.
14 We had no car at that time.
15 Q. When did you first get a car from Mr.
16 Jackson.
17 A. When Gavin was -- during his chemotherapy.
18 It was for Gavin.
19 Q. And didn’t you tell the jury last week that
20 you never asked Chris Tucker for any assistance.
21 A. We didn’t ask him for it. He said, “I want
22 to give this to you guys for a Christmas present.”
23 Q. So you then got the driver’s license info
24 from your mother and sent it to Chris.
25 A. No, I gave it to Aja.
26 Q. Did you ever get that car.
27 A. No.
28 Q. What happened. 982
1 A. I don’t know. It just -- we didn’t get it
2 after all, because of -- the communication broke off
3 because of this.
4 Q. Okay. So in your mind, but for this
5 investigation, you would have gotten a second car
6 from Aja, correct.
7 A. We’ve only -- we didn’t have a car at that
8 time, so it wouldn’t have been a second car.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. We were driving the bus. We were in the
11 bus.
12 MR. MESEREAU: Your Honor, at this time I’d
13 like to, with the Court’s permission, play the Brad
14 Miller interview tape for the jury.
15 MR. SANGER: Your Honor, let me address a
16 technical matter on that, if I may.
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 MR. SANGER: I’ve talked with Mr. Sneddon,
19 and this is acceptable. We’re not quite sure what
20 all the technical problems were, so we got a new
21 disk that was made directly from the original, and
22 it is not the one that’s marked 5000.
23 And what we would ask to do - it’s in the
24 machine right now - after we play it, we’d ask that
25 the new disk be marked as 5000, and this --
26 THE BAILIFF: You need to speak into the
27 microphone.
28 MR. SANGER: And this old disk is -- the one 983
1 that was marked just be given back to us, if that’s
2 all right.
3 THE COURT: In other words, you want to
4 exchange the new disk for the old disk and keep the
5 same number.
6 MR. SANGER: That’s correct.
7 THE COURT: Is that agreeable, Mr. Sneddon.
8 MR. SNEDDON: It is, Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: All right. I’ll approve that.
10 THE BAILIFF: Are you playing off the DVD.
11 MR. SANGER: We’re going to play off the
12 DVD. And with the Court’s permission now, we will
13 play Exhibit 5000.
14 THE BAILIFF: Are you playing off the player
15 down there.
16 MR. SANGER: I’m playing off the player down
17 there.
18 THE BAILIFF: So you need to go to “Input
19 4,” and you need to push the DVD player.
20 MR. SANGER: Right. I think they had it all
21 set up.
22 THE COURT: And the screen doesn’t matter,
23 because it’s just an audiotape.
24 MR. SANGER: May I proceed, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Yes.
26 (Whereupon, an audiotape, Defendant’s
27 Exhibit No. 5000, was played for the Court and
28 jury.) 984
1 THE COURT: Lorna, is that in evidence.
2 THE CLERK: No.
3 MR. MESEREAU: May I proceed, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Are you offering that in
5 evidence.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, we are.
7 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I have no
8 objection. With the Court’s permission, I would
9 like an opportunity to get a copy of that one. I
10 won’t say anything else. But just -- if the Court
11 would give me permission to get a copy.
12 THE COURT: You have permission.
13 MR. SNEDDON: Thank you.
14 THE COURT: It’s admitted into evidence.
15 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, you testified
16 last week that you didn’t know Mr. Miller worked for
17 Mr. Geragos, correct.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. He said that twice in this interview, true.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Have you ever discussed with your mother who
22 Mr. Brad Miller worked for.
23 A. Wasn’t really a subject.
24 Q. Well, have you ever discussed it with her.
25 A. No.
26 Q. Now, you know that your mother appeared for
27 a pre-trial hearing in this case a number of months
28 ago, right. 985
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you knew the issue was whether or not
3 she knew Mr. Miller worked for Geragos, didn’t you.
4 A. No. All I knew is she came up here.
5 Q. You never discussed what she was coming up
6 here for with her.
7 A. No.
8 Q. And never discussed what she said.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. Now, this interview that you just
11 heard took place on February 16th, 2003, right.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And you heard that date when Mr. Miller
14 began the interview, right.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. This was after your mother and Gavin had
17 sued J.C. Penney for false imprisonment and sexual
18 assault, true.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And this was after your mother had claimed
21 that security guards at J.C. Penney, in a public
22 parking lot, pulled her breasts out of her blouse
23 and falsely imprisoned her, right.
24 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I am going to
25 object. There’s no facts into evidence of this.
26 She said she didn’t know anything about the lawsuit.
27 Counsel is just doing this deliberately.
28 THE COURT: Sustained. 986
1 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Now, this interview on
2 February 16th, 2003, was also after your mother had
3 called the police on David Arvizo, correct.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. It was after she had called the police on
6 David Arvizo and accused him of false imprisonment
7 and molestation, right.
8 A. After I had told her, yes.
9 Q. Okay. Approximately one week after this
10 interview, you and your mother went to another
11 attorney, correct.
12 A. I don’t remember.
13 Q. You went to someone named William Dickerman,
14 correct.
15 A. I don’t know William.
16 Q. Well, you met with him at The Laugh Factory,
17 right.
18 A. I know his name is Bill. I don’t know.
19 Q. And you and your mother met with him to try
20 and put together a lawsuit against Michael Jackson,
21 right.
22 A. I never met with him. I only met with him
23 that one time.
24 Q. What time was this.
25 A. A while ago.
26 Q. And approximately when; do you know.
27 A. No.
28 Q. Well, you testified last week that at some 987
1 point, Vinnie picked you and your mom up and drove
2 you to The Laugh Factory on Sunset, right.
3 A. All of us went. It was me, my brothers, and
4 my mom.
5 Q. You all went to The Laugh Factory on Sunset,
6 right.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And that was after your interview with the
9 three social workers, right.
10 A. I think so. I don’t remember -- no, it
11 wasn’t. Because after the interview with the three
12 ladies was when Aja took us up to Neverland.
13 Q. When did you go to The Laugh Factory on
14 Sunset with Vinnie.
15 A. I think it was during the time we were in
16 Calabasas. I don’t remember.
17 Q. You stopped at The Laugh Factory with
18 Vinnie, right.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And your mom got out to meet Jamie Masada
21 and a lawyer named Bill Dickerman, right.
22 A. I didn’t know who he was at that time.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. And, like, Gavin got off with her.
25 Q. So Gavin and your mom went to meet with the
26 attorney named Bill Dickerman in The Laugh Factory,
27 right.
28 A. All I knew is they were going to go see 988
1 Jamie. I met him when I went upstairs for a few --
2 couple of seconds. And I didn’t hear what they were
3 saying. I just said -- I gave my mom a message and
4 ran back downstairs.
5 Q. When you say you met him, do you mean you
6 met Attorney Bill Dickerman.
7 A. Yeah, I just saw him there. I didn’t
8 really --
9 Q. So your mom and Gavin were meeting with him,
10 right.
11 A. Jamie was there also, yes.
12 Q. And that’s after this interview with Brad
13 Miller on February 16th, 2003, right.
14 A. I don’t know.
15 Q. Okay. Did you ever meet with Attorney Bill
16 Dickerman after that day at The Laugh Factory.
17 A. A while after, yes.
18 Q. And how many times did you meet with
19 Attorney Bill Dickerman.
20 A. Once.
21 Q. Were you with your mother.
22 A. All of us were in the room.
23 Q. And do you mean Gavin as well.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And Star as well.
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. Okay. Is that the only meeting you recall
28 ever having with Attorney Bill Dickerman. 989
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Now, at some point, you went and met with an
3 attorney named Larry Feldman, right.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. That was after you first met Attorney Bill
6 Dickerman, correct.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And that was at an office in Beverly Hills,
9 right.
10 A. I don’t know where it’s at.
11 Q. Okay. You went with your mother, Gavin and
12 Star, right.
13 A. And Jamie was there. And so was Jay.
14 Q. Jay Jackson.
15 A. I think he went with us. I don’t remember.
16 But Jamie was.
17 Q. Now, at this recorded interview by Brad
18 Miller that we just heard of February 16th, 2003,
19 Major Jay Jackson is sitting there listening to it,
20 right.
21 A. He’s sitting there, yes.
22 Q. And it’s in his home, right.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And you’re saying that after this interview,
25 Jay Jackson went to a lawyer with the family.
26 A. I don’t remember when we went, but it wasn’t
27 during then.
28 Q. And the interview with the three social 990
1 workers was at Jay Jackson’s home also, right.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And was Jay Jackson there that day.
4 A. No, he wasn’t.
5 Q. How many times did you meet with Attorney
6 Larry Feldman.
7 A. Once.
8 Q. And at some point, he agreed to represent
9 the whole family, true.
10 A. I don’t know that.
11 Q. Well, you knew that he had sued Michael
12 Jackson in the early ‘90s, true.
13 A. I didn’t know who he was. I just --
14 Q. Never discussed it with your mom.
15 A. Never.
16 Q. All right. Will you agree that shortly
17 after this recorded interview of February 16th,
18 2003, your family began meeting with lawyers.
19 A. No. It wasn’t shortly after then, no.
20 Q. How long after it was it.
21 A. I don’t know. But it was way after.
22 Q. Way after. Like how long; do you think.
23 A. After March. I don’t know.
24 Q. Okay. But you met with Dickerman --
25 A. Once.
26 Q. -- on Sunset.
27 A. I didn’t meet with him. I just saw him
28 there. 991
1 Q. Okay. Okay. And you think that was after
2 you left the Calabasas Inn, right.
3 A. I’m not sure.
4 Q. Okay. Okay. Now, you’d agree that in this
5 recorded interview with Brad Miller, and in the
6 rebuttal videotape that was shown last week, and in
7 your interviews with the social workers, your mother
8 continually praised Michael Jackson as a father
9 figure, right.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And you continually praised Michael Jackson
12 as a father figure, right.
13 A. I was just really copying, because I didn’t
14 know what to say. I was just latching onto
15 something because David was never really a father.
16 So I was just latching on something to call a
17 father. I didn’t know what a father is.
18 Q. Did you ever discuss with your mother,
19 “We’re going to call Michael Jackson a father
20 figure”.
21 A. No.
22 Q. Never did.
23 A. No. It’s the boys that brought it up.
24 Q. Okay. Well, certainly your mother praises
25 him in all of these interviews as being a father to
26 her children, true.
27 A. I guess seeing the boys so excited, you
28 know, anything that makes us happy, she -- I don’t 992
1 know. She gets it from us.
2 Q. You were sitting in this interview when your
3 mother said, essentially, she liked the boys to be
4 with Michael Jackson at night because they’re safe,
5 right.
6 A. I think she was just talking about the times
7 that Gavin would go to Neverland with Gavin and we
8 don’t know what happened.
9 Q. But your mother was encouraging your
10 brothers to go into the main house and be with
11 Michael Jackson, right.
12 A. You would have to ask her that. But I
13 would -- she never encouraged it. It was the boys
14 wanted to be there.
15 Q. Well, doesn’t she say that in that recorded
16 interview.
17 A. If it makes him happy, she’s going to push
18 it. She loves for us to be happy. Anything that
19 makes us happy, she’s going to say, “Go ahead, go.”
20 Q. But isn’t it true that, as far as you know,
21 she pushed your brothers to be in the main house
22 with Michael Jackson shortly before she went to a
23 lawyer to try and develop a lawsuit against him,
24 right.
25 A. What are you asking me. Like --
26 Q. If you know an answer to what I just said.
27 Do you have any --
28 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object as 993
1 argumentative.
2 THE COURT: She’s asked you to rephrase the
3 question.
4 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Okay.
5 Q. As far as you know, your mother was
6 encouraging your brothers to be in Michael Jackson’s
7 house at night shortly before she went to a lawyer
8 to try and develop a lawsuit against Michael
9 Jackson, right.
10 MR. SNEDDON: I’m going to object to that
11 question as argumentative and assumes facts not in
12 evidence. It’s also compound.
13 THE COURT: Sustained on compound.
14 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You would agree, you heard
15 your mother on many occasions encourage your
16 brothers to go into the main house and spend time
17 with Michael Jackson in the evening, right.
18 A. She wouldn’t encourage them. She’d just see
19 them happy. She wouldn’t push them to go do it.
20 She just -- they would go.
21 Q. You heard your mother --
22 A. I heard it, but I’m telling you what I know.
23 Q. Okay. She would encourage your brothers to
24 spend time with Michael Jackson at night because she
25 wanted Michael to be the father figure in the
26 family, right.
27 A. She never encouraged it. It’s whatever the
28 boys want, whatever makes them happy, she’s going to 994
1 let them do.
2 Q. Now, you said in the interview with Brad
3 Miller, referring to Michael Jackson, “He’s a bigger
4 father to all of us. He’s given us safety. He’s
5 given us love. He’s given us everything we’ve ever
6 wanted. He’s been our father figure. He’s the only
7 thing we know to be a father.” You said that,
8 right.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you meant it when you said it, didn’t
11 you.
12 A. At that point, I still liked Mr. Jackson.
13 And that was the point that David had left and --
14 I don’t know, I was just latching onto something,
15 because I don’t know what a description of a father
16 is. I had 16 years of just abuse. I don’t know
17 what it is. I just latched onto something.
18 Q. Do you want to take a minute.
19 A. I’m fine.
20 THE COURT: I think it’s time for the morning
21 break now.
22 MR. MESEREAU: Okay.
23 (Recess taken.)
24
25
26
27
28 995
1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE
2
3
4 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE )
5 OF CALIFORNIA, )
6 Plaintiff, )
7 -vs- ) No. 1133603
8 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
9 Defendant. )
10
11
12 I, MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR,
13 CSR #3304, Official Court Reporter, do hereby
14 certify:
15 That the foregoing pages 964 through 995
16 contain a true and correct transcript of the
17 proceedings had in the within and above-entitled
18 matter as by me taken down in shorthand writing at
19 said proceedings on March 7, 2005, and thereafter
20 reduced to typewriting by computer-aided
21 transcription under my direction.
22 DATED: Santa Maria, California,
23 March 7, 2005.
24
25
26
27 MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 996
1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION
4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE
5
6
7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )
8 CALIFORNIA, )
9 Plaintiff, )
10 -vs- ) No. 1133603
11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
12 Defendant. )
13
14
15
16 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
17
18 MONDAY, MARCH 7, 2005
19
20 (PAGES 997 THROUGH 1184)
21
22
23
24
25
26
27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 BY: Official Court Reporter 997
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2
3
For Plaintiff: THOMAS W. SNEDDON, JR.,
4 District Attorney
-and-
5 RONALD J. ZONEN,
Sr. Deputy District Attorney
6 -and-
GORDON AUCHINCLOSS,
7 Sr. Deputy District Attorney
1112 Santa Barbara Street
8 Santa Barbara, California 93101
9
10
11
12 For Defendant: COLLINS, MESEREAU, REDDOCK & YU BY: THOMAS A. MESEREAU, JR., ESQ.
13 -and- SUSAN C. YU, ESQ.
14 1875 Century Park East, Suite 700 Los Angeles, California 90067
15
16 -and-
17 SANGER & SWYSEN
18 BY: ROBERT M. SANGER, ESQ. 233 East Carrillo Street, Suite C
19 Santa Barbara, California 93101
20 -and-
21
22 OXMAN and JAROSCAK
BY: R. BRIAN OXMAN, ESQ.
23 14126 East Rosecrans Boulevard
Santa Fe Springs, California 90670
24
25
26
27
28 998
1 I N D E X
2
3 Note: Mr. Sneddon is listed as “SN” on index.
4 Mr. Zonen is listed as “Z” on index. Mr. Auchincloss is listed as “A” on index.
5 Mr. Mesereau is listed as “M” on index. Ms. Yu is listed as “Y” on index.
6 Mr. Sanger is listed as “SA” on index. Mr. Oxman is listed as “O” on index.
7
8
9 PLAINTIFF’S WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
10
11 ARVIZO, Star David 1013-S
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 999
1 E X H I B I T S
2
3 FOR IN PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.
4
5 50 Photograph 1040 1042
6 52 Photograph 1040 1042
7 53 Photograph 1041 1042
8 54 Photograph 1041 1042
9 55 Photograph 1131 1134
10 58 Photograph 1131 1134
11 69 Photograph 1131 1134
12 71 Photograph 1132 1134
13 72 Photograph 1132 1134
14 74 Photograph 1132 1134
15 77 Photograph 1133 1134
16 78 Photograph 1133 1134
17 79 Photograph 1133 1134
18 86 Photograph 1154 1158
19 90 Photograph 1131 1134
20 91 Photograph 1130 1134
21 92 Photograph 1130 1134
22 93 Photograph 1130 1134
23 94 Photograph 1133 1134
24 95 Photograph 1134 1134
25 97 Photgraph 1133 1134
26 110 Photograph 1042 1042
27 111 Photograph 1042 1042
28 1000
1 E X H I B I T S (Continued)
2
3 FOR IN
4 PLAINTIFF’S NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVID.
5 153 Photograph 1161 1161
6 158 Photograph 1131 1134
7 165 Photograph 1132 1134
8 188 Photograph 1040 1042
9 193 Photograph 1118 1118
10 196 Photographi 1041 1042
11 341 Diagram of interior of private jet (Star Arvizo) 1082 1083
12 470 Clear plastic bag containing
13 briefcase 1151
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 1001
1 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you, Your Honor.
2 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Miss Arvizo, in the Brad
3 Miller tape-recording that we just heard --
4 THE BAILIFF: Would you turn your microphone
5 on, please.
6 MR. MESEREAU: Oh, excuse me.
7 Let me start again.
8 Q. Ms. Arvizo, in the Brad Miller
9 tape-recording that we just heard, your mother talks
10 about the family being inundated with British, local
11 newspapers, national newspapers, magazines, T.V.
12 shows, Celebrity Justice, et cetera. Do you
13 remember that.
14 A. What’s the word “inundated”. What does that
15 mean.
16 Q. Pardon me.
17 A. What does “inundated” mean.
18 Q. I’m sorry. I should have chose a better
19 word.
20 Your mother says that different kinds of
21 media have attempted to contact her; do you recall
22 that.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And do you recall her being contacted by
25 Celebrity Justice.
26 A. The only one --
27 Q. Do you remember that.
28 A. The only one I remember is the one coming to 1002
1 the apartment.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. That’s all I remember.
4 Q. Okay. She says, “The children’s old school
5 and the children’s new school are being contacted by
6 media.” Did you know anything about that.
7 A. I don’t know.
8 Q. Okay. And if the school told that to your
9 mother, you weren’t involved, right.
10 A. All I remember is that one coming to the
11 apartment. I don’t remember any others.
12 Q. So she uses words, “It’s been swarmed.”
13 But you don’t know anything more than what you just
14 testified to, right.
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. Okay. Now, your mother says, “We’ve been
17 rejected, neglected, spit on, fried, tried, burned,
18 abused, the doors shut in our face, opportunities
19 lost. And Michael said -- took us from way behind
20 in the line and pulled us up to the front and said,
21 ‘You matter to me. You may not matter to many
22 people, but you matter to me and that’s what’s
23 important.’”
24 Do you know what she was referring to when
25 she talked about your family being rejected,
26 neglected, spit on, fried, et cetera.
27 A. I don’t know. I guess emotions from David.
28 I don’t know. 1003
1 Q. Okay. You were present with your mom when
2 she reported David to the Los Angeles Police
3 Department, right.
4 A. Which time.
5 Q. Well, there was October -- excuse me,
6 October 1st, 2001, do you remember that.
7 A. The one that I asked her to call the police,
8 I was present for that one. But the one that -- the
9 first one, I don’t -- I wasn’t there.
10 Q. Were you present when your mother told the
11 Los Angeles Police Department that Michael Jackson,
12 Fritz Coleman and Kobe Bryant would assist her with
13 this incident.
14 A. I don’t remember that.
15 Q. Okay. Were you present with her on
16 October 4th, 2001, when she called the Los Angeles
17 Police Department about your father.
18 A. I don’t know the dates, but I was only
19 present after I told her what had happened with me
20 and my father. Then she called the police. The
21 other one -- any other incident I was not present.
22 Q. Were you present when she told the police
23 officer from Los Angeles that she wanted to show him
24 a videotape and numerous photos of she and her
25 children spending time with various celebrities.
26 A. I don’t remember that.
27 Q. Okay. Do you recall your mother said on the
28 Brad Miller interview that Michael Jackson prayed 1004
1 with the family.
2 A. Yes, I heard it.
3 Q. That happened one time in the theater,
4 didn’t it.
5 A. No.
6 Q. You don’t remember that.
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you remember the family praying with
9 Michael Jackson.
10 A. Not really.
11 Q. Okay. Do you think maybe your mother and
12 Michael and the brothers did it without you.
13 A. I don’t believe so.
14 Q. Is that possible.
15 A. My mom prays like every couple of seconds,
16 like little prayers, so --
17 Q. Okay. Now, you discussed the Bashir tape
18 with Attorney Larry Feldman, didn’t you.
19 A. I don’t remember what we discussed.
20 Q. Well, didn’t your family approach him and
21 talk about the Bashir tape.
22 A. All I remember -- we had a meeting that day.
23 I don’t remember. It was too long ago.
24 Q. Did you ever drink alcohol on a plane where
25 Michael Jackson was present.
26 A. I didn’t drink alcohol on a plane.
27 Q. Thank you.
28 Do you recall meeting with a psychologist 1005
1 named Stan Katz.
2 A. I remember meeting Mr. Katz.
3 Q. And you were referred to him by Attorney
4 Larry Feldman, right.
5 A. All I know is we went that day.
6 Q. And to your knowledge, Mr. Katz has a
7 business relationship with Attorney Larry Feldman,
8 right.
9 A. I don’t know.
10 Q. Okay. One final question: Have you told
11 the truth throughout your testimony.
12 A. Yes.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Thank you.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Sneddon.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Be right there, Your Honor.
16 Just wanted to make arrangements to have the
17 next witness brought down, Your Honor.
18
19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. SNEDDON:
21 Q. All right. Miss Arvizo, first of all, I’d
22 like to direct your attention to the time that you
23 were in the car with Vinnie and your brother outside
24 The Laugh Factory. Okay.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. At some point in time you were given a
27 message by Vinnie and sent inside, correct.
28 A. Yes. 1006
1 Q. What was the message that he gave you to
2 give to your mother.
3 A. To tell my mom to hurry up, because we
4 needed to go.
5 Q. Is that what you did.
6 A. Yes, I went and got her. Or I went and told
7 her. She came out after me.
8 Q. After you gave the message, did you stick
9 around at all.
10 A. No, I went.
11 Q. Now, you told the jury that there was this
12 incident which led to your request to have your
13 mother call the police --
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. -- involving you and your father.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What happened.
18 A. It was before school. I was walking to
19 McDonald’s to go get something to eat. And my
20 father was parked in the parking lot at McDonald’s
21 across from my high school, and he started waving at
22 me, and to -- going like this, to “come here.” And
23 I just kept trying to go and I didn’t want to, but I
24 was too scared of him. And I walked over, and he
25 told me to get in the car.
26 Q. So did you do that.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. What happened when you got in the car. 1007
1 A. He locked the doors, and then he was just
2 telling me, “What are you guys doing.” And he just
3 started being mean to me. And I just, “Yes, Daddy.
4 Yes, Daddy. I’m sorry, I’m sorry.”
5 Q. Did you try to leave. Did you tell him you
6 wanted to leave.
7 A. I told him I had to leave. It was already,
8 like, during my first period. I had to leave. And
9 he just wouldn’t let me go. He said, “No, I need to
10 talk to you,” and he would grab my arm, and I didn’t
11 know -- I was just really scared. I didn’t -- I
12 didn’t know what to do.
13 Q. It’s okay. It’s okay.
14 During the time that you were in the car
15 with your father and he wouldn’t let you go, did he
16 ever molest you at that time.
17 A. No.
18 Q. Now, you’ve heard Mr. Mesereau use the word
19 “terrorist threats.” Do you remember him saying
20 that.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you ever use those words to the police
23 officer.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Do you even know what that means.
26 A. All I know is the word “threats,” so I’m
27 just putting two and two together, like threatening
28 threats. I don’t know. 1008
1 Q. But you never used the word “terrorist”.
2 A. No.
3 Q. Now, you told the ladies and gentlemen of
4 the jury there was a time when you attempted to talk
5 to Carol Lamir about your father’s abusive behavior
6 towards the family.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you remember that.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you indicated, I believe, that she
11 didn’t want to listen to it.
12 A. She didn’t want to listen to it. She always
13 seemed like she had kind of a -- I don’t know, a
14 crush on my father, because my father would go cook
15 for her and stuff.
16 Q. I just have a couple more questions.
17 Before your family went to Miami to be with
18 the defendant in this case, Mr. Jackson - okay. -
19 before that time, your brother Gavin had already
20 been in remission.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. For some time.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And did you ever hear your mother express
25 her belief as to who was responsible for that
26 remission.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Who. 1009
1 A. God. And only God.
2 Q. You never heard her mention Michael Jackson.
3 A. No.
4 Q. With regard to the -- going back to the
5 incident with your father in the car, okay.
6 A. Okay.
7 Q. The one at school. I just -- my colleagues
8 want me to ask you a question, so I’ll do it.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. You said that you didn’t know the word
11 “terrorist,” but you knew the word “threats”.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you -- in your conversations with police
14 officers in describing what happened, did you use
15 the word “threats”.
16 A. No, I just told them what he had told me.
17 Q. And what did he tell you.
18 A. That we better not say anything about what
19 happened, because he could have us killed.
20 Q. Do you know what the term “false
21 imprisonment” means.
22 A. Not really.
23 Q. Did you describe to the police officers what
24 happened.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And what words did you use to describe what
27 happened with regard to your ability to leave the
28 car. 1010
1 A. I told him he locked it, and that anytime I
2 really tried to leave, he would grab my arm and tell
3 me “No.”
4 Q. Now, lastly, with regard to the questions
5 that you were asked by Mr. Mesereau, and you were
6 candid with the jury and told them that there were
7 statements that you made to the social workers which
8 were not true, do you recall that.
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. MESEREAU: Objection; leading.
11 MR. SNEDDON: Foundational, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 You may -- go ahead.
14 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: With regard to those
15 particular questions that you answered to Mr.
16 Mesereau that you had lied, why did you lie.
17 A. I don’t know. I just -- I kind of still
18 liked Mr. Jackson, and I didn’t want him to get in
19 trouble. And I know I was scared because the
20 bodyguard was there before. And just mixed
21 feelings. I didn’t know, really. I was just....
22 MR. SNEDDON: All right. I have nothing
23 further, Your Honor. Thank you.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Mesereau.
25 MR. MESEREAU: Just briefly.
26 //
27 //
28 // 1011
1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. MESEREAU:
3 Q. Ms. Arvizo, when the three social workers
4 came to Jay Jackson’s house and interviewed you,
5 they were asking you questions about your mother,
6 correct.
7 A. No.
8 Q. They were investigating whether your mother
9 was fit, true.
10 A. I really don’t remember what they were
11 investigating. I didn’t know what they were
12 investigating.
13 Q. Well, it wasn’t really just Mr. Jackson that
14 they were asking questions about, right.
15 A. I don’t remember.
16 MR. MESEREAU: Okay. No further questions,
17 Your Honor.
18 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You may
20 step down.
21 MR. SNEDDON: May I have just a moment, Your
22 Honor.
23 MR. MESEREAU: She’s subject to re-call,
24 Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Yes, I didn’t excuse her.
26 MR. MESEREAU: Oh. Thank you.
27 MR. SNEDDON: Call Star Arvizo.
28 THE COURT: He called him. 1012
1 BAILIFF CORTEZ: Oh, he did.
2 THE BAILIFF: You need to adjust this to
3 your height.
4 THE COURT: Remain standing, please. Face
5 the clerk and raise your right hand.
6
7 STAR DAVID ARVIZO
8 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
9
10 THE WITNESS: I do.
11 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
12 spell your name for the record.
13 THE WITNESS: My name is Star David Arvizo.
14 THE BAILIFF: Talk into the mike.
15 THE WITNESS: Oh, S-t-a-r, D-a-v-i-d,
16 A-r-v-i-z-o.
17 THE CLERK: Thank you.
18
19 DIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. SNEDDON:
21 Q. How old are you.
22 A. 14 years old.
23 Q. You nervous.
24 A. A little bit.
25 Q. What’s your birth date.
26 A. 12-11-90. December 11th.
27 Q. I’m sorry.
28 A. December 11th. 1013
1 Q. And what year in school are you right now.
2 A. Right now, in ninth grade.
3 Q. And do you have brothers and sisters.
4 A. Two -- oh, three, actually.
5 Q. All right. Why don’t you tell us their
6 names.
7 A. Jett Daniel Jackson. Davellin Arvizo. And
8 Gavin Anton Jackson, or Arvizo. God.
9 Q. Okay. And your mother’s name.
10 A. Janet Jackson.
11 Q. And the current husband of your mother.
12 A. Jay Daniel Jackson.
13 Q. And Mr. Jackson’s occupation.
14 A. Major -- he’s a United States Major in the
15 Army right now.
16 Q. And your grandparents, do you have
17 grandparents that are still alive --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- on your mother’s side of the family.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What are your grandparents’ names.
22 A. Maria Ventura and Jesus David Ventura.
23 Q. And your grandfather, what does he go by.
24 A. He goes by David Ventura.
25 Q. Do you know where they live.
26 A. They live in El Monte.
27 Q. And how long have they lived in El Monte.
28 A. 34 years. 1014
1 Q. Long time.
2 A. A long time, yeah.
3 Q. All right. Let’s talk a little bit about
4 your school career.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Where did you start.
7 A. Start --
8 Q. What’s the name of the school.
9 A. In Maxson Elementary.
10 Q. How is that spelled.
11 A. M-a-x-s-o-n.
12 Q. And how long were you there.
13 A. Four years.
14 Q. What grades would that have been, then.
15 A. Kindergarten through third.
16 Q. And then for the fourth grade, where did you
17 go.
18 A. Nueva Vista Elementary.
19 Q. And do you recall what town that was in.
20 A. The City of Bell.
21 Q. How about Maxson. Where was Maxson, what
22 city.
23 A. It was located in El Monte.
24 Q. And then how long were you at Nueva Vista.
25 A. Four through five.
26 Q. And then in the sixth grade, where did you
27 go.
28 A. I went through -- I mean, I went to LeConte 1015
1 Middle School.
2 THE REPORTER: LeConte.
3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Can you spell that.
5 A. C-o-n-t-e.
6 Q. And it would be L-a.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Or LeConte.
9 A. Oh, LeConte. L-e-C-o-n-t-e.
10 Q. And where was that school located.
11 A. It was located in Hollywood.
12 Q. And where were you living at this point in
13 your life.
14 A. In East L.A.
15 Q. Do you remember the name of the street.
16 A. Soto. Soto near Cesar Chavez, I think.
17 Q. So how did you get from your Soto Street
18 address in East L.A. to Hollywood to go to school
19 each day.
20 A. There was a school bus that picks us up
21 on Cesar Chavez and takes us all the way to our
22 middle school and then continued on to Hollywood
23 High.
24 Q. How many years did you go there.
25 A. To LeConte.
26 Q. Yes.
27 A. One year.
28 Q. And after that, where did you go to school. 1016
1 A. To another -- well, in seventh grade, we
2 went to middle school that was near our Soto
3 address. And -- for about three weeks. And then my
4 mom decided to put us in a better school, in John
5 Burroughs Middle School.
6 Q. So what was the name of the first school.
7 A. Hollenbeck Middle School.
8 Q. And then you went to John Burroughs.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Was there a point in time -- where did you
11 go to the eighth grade.
12 A. I went to -- I went to John Burroughs for
13 seventh grade, through eighth. But then half of my
14 eighth grade, I continued on with independent
15 studies. Well, not after. A little bit towards the
16 end.
17 Q. What does “independent studies” mean.
18 A. It’s where you stay at home, and you get
19 your homework and everything. You go to a teacher
20 once a week, and he gives you your homework, and you
21 go home and do it.
22 Q. So you don’t really go to school.
23 A. No. No.
24 Q. But this year you’re in a regular school, a
25 freshman.
26 A. Yes. Yes.
27 Q. You’ve told the ladies and gentlemen of the
28 jury that you lived on Soto Street in East Los 1017
1 Angeles. Do you recall how long it was that you
2 remember living at Soto Street.
3 A. Probably about four years. I don’t remember
4 if it’s exact, but --
5 Q. Do you remember where you lived when you
6 were in kindergarten.
7 A. Well, actually, my parents and my brother
8 and my mom, they lived there for a year, because I
9 was living in my grandmother’s house, and I
10 continued going to Maxson Elementary.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. So it was probably -- yeah, it was probably
13 about four years. I don’t know. Probably four
14 years. Guessing.
15 Q. Describe to the ladies and gentlemen of the
16 jury this Soto Street address, as you recall it.
17 A. The address.
18 Q. Yeah. No, what was inside. What is the
19 room like.
20 A. It was really small. Probably -- it was a
21 bachelor apartment. It was really small.
22 Q. Did it have a separate bedroom.
23 A. Well, it was like a living room/bedroom.
24 Q. I’m sorry.
25 A. It was like a kitchen, like an area, and
26 then a little bathroom.
27 Q. So where did people sleep.
28 A. Big area. 1018
1 Q. All together.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. The whole family.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. How would you describe the -- just let us --
6 what was it like, the relationship between your
7 mother and your father during these times.
8 A. It wasn’t good.
9 Q. What do you mean by that.
10 A. Well, they’d always get in arguments, and it
11 would always lead to my father hitting my mom.
12 Q. Did he ever hit you.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did you ever see him hit your brother and
15 sister.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Was there a point in time when your dad
18 left.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you remember when that was in terms of
21 what grade you were in.
22 A. I was in sixth grade, and it was in the
23 morning.
24 Q. Do you remember the incident.
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Were you in school that day.
27 A. It was a weekend.
28 Q. And when your father left, did he ever come 1019
1 back.
2 A. No, I never saw him again.
3 Q. Okay. Let me talk to you a little bit about
4 some of the things that you’ve done.
5 Have you ever been to a place called The
6 Laugh Factory.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Do you recall what the first occasion was
9 when you went to The Laugh Factory.
10 A. It was for a comedy camp.
11 Q. And do you remember approximately when that
12 was.
13 A. The year.
14 Q. Or just put it -- the year, if you can
15 remember, or between what grades it was.
16 A. It was between third and fourth, probably.
17 Because it was right before my brother was -- had
18 cancer.
19 Q. And was this during the school year or at
20 some other time.
21 A. It was during the summer.
22 Q. And who went to the camp.
23 A. Me and my brother and my sister.
24 Q. And how long did it last.
25 A. I don’t remember how exact, but it lasted
26 for probably about a month.
27 Q. And did you meet any people at the camp that
28 you ended up having -- becoming friends of the 1020
1 family.
2 A. George Lopez. Louise.
3 Q. Do you know Louise’s last name.
4 A. No.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Jamie Masada. Can’t remember right now.
7 Q. Well, let me show you some photographs, if I
8 can. All right.
9 A. Okay.
10 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, you might have to
11 turn on the screen eventually. I just thought I’d
12 give you a heads up.
13 MR. MESEREAU: Excuse me. Have I seen
14 those.
15 MR. SNEDDON: Yes, they’re in evidence, all
16 three of them. I’ll identify them for the record.
17 But if you want to look at them again -- I’m sorry.
18 I should have showed you now.
19 Q. Just look at those for a second. I’ve shown
20 you an exhibit that’s in evidence marked as People’s
21 28, People’s 13, and People’s 49 that are in
22 evidence. Okay. Just hold those there for a
23 second.
24 All right. Go ahead and put 28 up there.
25 I want you to look at People’s 28, Star.
26 Okay. Do you have that in front of you.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Do you recognize the person in that 1021
1 photograph.
2 A. Yes. It’s Jamie Masada.
3 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Your Honor, do you have it
4 on “Input 3”.
5 THE COURT: We have “1” or “4.”
6 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Oh, “Input 1.”
7 THE COURT: It was on “1.” The PC.
8 MR. SNEDDON: “No signal.”
9 THE BAILIFF: Did you push the other thing.
10 MR. SNEDDON: There we go.
11 Q. All right. Now, People’s 28 you identified
12 as whom, Star.
13 A. Jamie Masada.
14 Q. All right. Now, if you put that aside for
15 just a second and go to the one that’s marked as
16 People’s 13.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. Do you recognize the people depicted in that
19 photograph.
20 A. That’s my sister, me, my brother, and Fritz
21 Coleman.
22 Q. All right. You recognize the person named
23 Fritz Coleman.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Where did you meet him.
26 A. At The Laugh Factory.
27 Q. And what was he doing there.
28 A. He was helping out the kids with their 1022
1 comedy act.
2 Q. And the people in that photograph, do you
3 recognize those people.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. A little different than what you look like
6 now, huh.
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. All right. Put that aside, if you would.
9 And let’s look at the one that’s 49 that’s
10 in evidence, people’s 49, okay. Do you recognize
11 the people in that photograph.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Who are those.
14 A. It’s me, my brother, my sister, and Louise.
15 Q. Okay. Do you know Louise’s last name.
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you guys have a nickname for her.
18 A. Yeah, we called her Weezie.
19 Q. Weezie.
20 A. Yeah.
21 MR. SNEDDON: (To the reporter) I’m sorry,
22 you’re on your own in trying to spell it.
23 Q. Okay. And do you recall when this
24 photograph was taken.
25 A. Oh. Yes.
26 Q. When was it taken.
27 A. It was during the comedy camp.
28 Q. During the summer you went to comedy camp. 1023
1 A. Yeah. Yes.
2 Q. All right. Thank you.
3 Your Honor, we can turn the lights back on.
4 Thanks.
5 Okay. Just take those and turn them over
6 and set them up there on the counter, if you would.
7 Thanks.
8 Now, at some point in time, did your brother
9 Gavin -- did you learn that your brother Gavin had
10 come down with cancer.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Do you remember in terms of what year you
13 were in school, or what was going on at that
14 particular time in your life that you remember that
15 happening.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. Tell the jury.
18 A. I was in fourth grade. My brother was --
19 well, he was moved up to fifth grade. So -- and
20 then he was diagnosed with cancer, so he had to
21 leave school.
22 And I continued on going to school through
23 the fifth grade. And then he went into remission
24 during sixth grade, when he was able to come back
25 with me during sixth grade.
26 Q. So you were in the same grades then.
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Now, do you remember in terms of about what 1024
1 time of the school year it was that Gavin learned
2 that he had cancer.
3 A. The year.
4 Q. What time of the school year. Like
5 beginning, end, middle.
6 A. Probably middle. Yeah.
7 Q. Do you recall.
8 A. Huh. No, I don’t recall. I don’t know
9 exactly.
10 Q. Tell us in terms of your -- at the time that
11 Gavin learned that he had cancer, where was he
12 living at that time.
13 A. We were still living in East L.A.
14 Q. And the name of the street.
15 A. Soto.
16 Q. Okay. And then when Gavin -- did Gavin at
17 some point begin to go to the hospital.
18 A. What.
19 Q. Did -- did Gavin ever have to go to the
20 hospital.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Because of the cancer.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Where was he living then.
25 A. Oh, he -- Louise gave my dad money so he
26 could fix, at my grandma’s house, a room for him.
27 Q. So he was at your grandma’s house.
28 A. Yes. 1025
Subject: March 7, 2005 
Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:26 am
